Do NTs view those with Asperger's as societal deviants?

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headgames
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05 Jan 2013, 12:13 am

I'm fairly certain this is true to a certain degree even though they won't admit it.

Any one that doesn't conform to their (neurotypicals) version of "normal" is looked up differently and treated as such.

I would like to hear other's opinions on this belief.



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05 Jan 2013, 2:04 am

To be fair the psychological definition of deviance is "behaviour that does not fit the identified norm" so whether NT's see us that way or not we are automatically and scientifically socially deviant. This can be good or bad depending on the particular behaviour and the environment in which the behaviour is demonstrated, but for the most part it is neither, merely different.


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05 Jan 2013, 2:11 am

Welcome to Wrong Planet! :)

To answer your question: Well, I guess yes, otherwise it would not be seen as a disorder.
The mass defines what a disorder is and a disorder is behaviour that does not fit the norm of the mass (something along those lines). If the world was dominated by autists and aspies, NTs would be the disordered people, the "deviants" as you wrote it.


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ialdabaoth
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05 Jan 2013, 7:26 am

Definitionally so. That's what "deviance" means.



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05 Jan 2013, 7:59 am

Most people I've met who don't know about my autism don't necessarily view me as societal deviant at all.

Typically, they'll think I'm either:

-rude
-aloof
-unsociable
-stupid
-clumsy
-quirky
-eccentric
-reserved
-shy
-polite

Note how it bends all the way from 'rude' to its polar oppisite 'polite'.

Most people I meet out in the world don't care deeply enough about me to label me as 'deviant'.


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05 Jan 2013, 8:41 am

Of course people with AS are thought of as social deviants, that's what they are.


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05 Jan 2013, 12:10 pm

Yes, it's usually the more ignorant conformist types who see us as deviants and the danger is that you can start to live up/down to the label if you're not careful and start thinking "Well if I'm a deviant f-k them, I'll start acting like one!' and this is how a person becomes alienated from society and we all know where that can lead!

So it's not in society's interests to treat people as deviants without good reason. You can't get them to understand that though as it's far too logical for them.



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05 Jan 2013, 4:34 pm

ialdabaoth wrote:
Definitionally so. That's what "deviance" means.

That was what I was going to post.


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05 Jan 2013, 5:10 pm

headgames wrote:
I'm fairly certain this is true to a certain degree even though they won't admit it.

Any one that doesn't conform to their (neurotypicals) version of "normal" is looked up differently and treated as such.

I would like to hear other's opinions on this belief.


Fortunately not everyone. After I got diagnosed, I hung out with some casual friends and from time to time tried to test their attitudes. I made snide comments or jokes about aspies and out loud wondered if the Connecticut shooter's Aspergers made him commit the crime and was pleasantly surprised how often I got corrected or put down.

One friend, I actually offended because her brother has HFA. I then had to explain that I had it too and was just trying to test her attitude. I hope she understood.

Of course this is probably a sample of rather open-minded people to begin with (otherwise they wouldn't be hanging out with me)



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05 Jan 2013, 6:00 pm

A lot depends on how much you value the majority view in the first place. I don't value it much.



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05 Jan 2013, 11:53 pm

I find that many people on the spectrum feel like NTs have an "all or nothing" view of them, in that all NTs like or hate them...this is far from the truth. There is such a range of NTs in terms of how accepting they are of other's differences...just because you have had one or two bad experiences with them does not mean they are going to reject you or be out to get you.


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nessa238
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06 Jan 2013, 5:33 am

anneurysm wrote:
I find that many people on the spectrum feel like NTs have an "all or nothing" view of them, in that all NTs like or hate them...this is far from the truth. There is such a range of NTs in terms of how accepting they are of other's differences...just because you have had one or two bad experiences with them does not mean they are going to reject you or be out to get you.


I tend to find the people who say things like yourself have had mainly positive interactions with NTs and hence have a positively-biased view of them.

I would love to give all the 'NTs aren't so bad' people my head for a year and see how wonderful they think NTs are then.

People don't seem to get the fact that NTs will be nice to you to the extent that you tick all their boxes. If they're nice - you've ticked sufficient boxes; if they're not you haven't. It's a simple as that and nothing to do with the inherent worthiness of the person in question. So think yourselves lucky that you ticked enough boxes but please don't lecture those of us who didn't and don't for one minute think you engineered the NT reaction to yourselves out of merit - you didn't; it was the luck of the draw.



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06 Jan 2013, 6:35 am

I think it's not so cut and dried as that.

I'm not going to presume that I know what it's like to grow up with parents, family, teachers, or classmates who have no understanding of or tolerance for my autism, and who'd subject me to psychological abuse, attempt to 'correct' my behaviour into 'normalcy', be intolerant toward quirks or stims.
I'm well aware it goes beyond 'one or two bad experiences' as anneurysm put it.

But at the same time, even while I did grow up in a loving, understanding, accepting environment, I haven't had exclusively positive experiences with non-autistic people- I've met my fair share of jerks who didn't even bother to try and understand. BUT I believe that this is unrelated to them being 'NT', it's related to them being as*holes.


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nessa238
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06 Jan 2013, 6:39 am

CyclopsSummers wrote:
I think it's not so cut and dried as that.

I'm not going to presume that I know what it's like to grow up with parents, family, teachers, or classmates who have no understanding of or tolerance for my autism, and who'd subject me to psychological abuse, attempt to 'correct' my behaviour into 'normalcy', be intolerant toward quirks or stims.
I'm well aware it goes beyond 'one or two bad experiences' as anneurysm put it.

But at the same time, even while I did grow up in a loving, understanding, accepting environment, I haven't had exclusively positive experiences with non-autistic people- I've met my fair share of jerks who didn't even bother to try and understand. BUT I believe that this is unrelated to them being 'NT', it's related to them being as*holes.


It's related to them being herd-followers who value conformism and hate difference and these people are usually NT as the non-NTs are often incapable of fitting in.



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06 Jan 2013, 10:44 am

While we look at the term deviant and see the logical definition, I think the OP is insinuating the emotionally charged, more neurotypical meaning of the term - deviant as in rebellious, wrong, bad.

In which case I agree....we are seen that way. Wrongly.



anneurysm
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06 Jan 2013, 4:36 pm

CyclopsSummers wrote:
I've met my fair share of jerks who didn't even bother to try and understand. BUT I believe that this is unrelated to them being 'NT', it's related to them being as*holes.


This was more along the lines of what I was trying to say. There are nice NTs, there are a-hole NTs, and the ones in between. There is such a range present that it's hard to make generalizations against this huge group of people who vary so widely in opinions.


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Given a “tentative” diagnosis as a child as I needed services at school for what was later correctly discovered to be a major anxiety disorder.

This misdiagnosis caused me significant stress, which lessened upon finding out the truth about myself from my current and past long-term psychiatrists - that I am a highly sensitive person but do not have an autism spectrum disorder

My diagnoses - anxiety disorder, depression and traits of obsessive-compulsive disorder (all in remission).

I’m no longer involved with the ASD world.