Anti-bullying policies: do they work??

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Jayo
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24 Feb 2013, 4:15 pm

I'm cynical as to whether the growing number of "anti-bullying" policies in the workplace actually do any good.
It really seems like a window-dressing attempt to make the organizations look more benevolent than they really are.

Sure, you hear about all the statistics of higher sickness and turnover rates, low morale etc, and that it ultimately affects the bottom line (which is the one thing they truly care about), but it still persists. In some cases or jurisdictions, they've attempted to legislate anti-bullying (like here in Canada, in certain provinces), but it really only addresses the more obvious forms of bullying like shouting, swearing, name-calling, desk-pounding, etc, etc. Especially if any of the aforementioned are done in front of peers. What it fails to address, and is hard-pressed to address, are the more covert and insidious forms of bullying - like passive-aggressive bullying i.e. "crying wolf" with phony complaints, nit-picking, sabotage, imposing (arbitrary) last-minute demands at 4:30pm that have to be done right away, "forgetting" to include staff on important updates, or pretending they didn't get your emails, etc, etc. Of course most of these can't involve an audience of peers, it's usually only visible to the bully and victim.

As an Aspie, it becomes all the more difficult to assert oneself (i.e. I don't appreciate this rude and condescending behaviour), seek redress or raise a grievance, because typically the Aspie in an organization is far from being the most popular employee, so a street-wise manager/bully can exploit this, regardless of the existence of an anti-bullying policy (such as it is). Of course, if you're already "on the brink" you'll be reluctant to complain. That goes for NTs too of course, as there have been plenty of NTs whose reputations have been tarnished by a bully and they are reluctant to take action - but Aspies get it worse when and if it does happen.

So do anti-bullying policies actually work?? Probably not...in general.



ialdabaoth
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24 Feb 2013, 5:03 pm

In general, nothing designed to "help" the powerless actually helps the powerless.



BlueMax
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24 Feb 2013, 7:28 pm

No, they don't. One of the worst places I worked (under a genuine sociopath) had anti-bullying posters every 50 feet. Bah!

I took it to HR, but the director of HR was the nutbag's favorite drinkin' buddy.



managertina
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24 Feb 2013, 7:47 pm

All I know is that I take bullying seriously and follow up on any issues my staff bring to me. But they must bring it to me in the first place. And that sometimes is where there an issue. Sometimes there is an air of not saying anything to protect people or not seem a tattletale.



ianorlin
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24 Feb 2013, 9:49 pm

Jayo wrote:
I'm cynical as to whether the growing number of "anti-bullying" policies in the workplace actually do any good.
It really seems like a window-dressing attempt to make the organizations look more benevolent than they really are.

Sure, you hear about all the statistics of higher sickness and turnover rates, low morale etc, and that it ultimately affects the bottom line (which is the one thing they truly care about), but it still persists. In some cases or jurisdictions, they've attempted to legislate anti-bullying (like here in Canada, in certain provinces), but it really only addresses the more obvious forms of bullying like shouting, swearing, name-calling, desk-pounding, etc, etc. Especially if any of the aforementioned are done in front of peers. What it fails to address, and is hard-pressed to address, are the more covert and insidious forms of bullying - like passive-aggressive bullying i.e. "crying wolf" with phony complaints, nit-picking, sabotage, imposing (arbitrary) last-minute demands at 4:30pm that have to be done right away, "forgetting" to include staff on important updates, or pretending they didn't get your emails, etc, etc. Of course most of these can't involve an audience of peers, it's usually only visible to the bully and victim.

As an Aspie, it becomes all the more difficult to assert oneself (i.e. I don't appreciate this rude and condescending behaviour), seek redress or raise a grievance, because typically the Aspie in an organization is far from being the most popular employee, so a street-wise manager/bully can exploit this, regardless of the existence of an anti-bullying policy (such as it is). Of course, if you're already "on the brink" you'll be reluctant to complain. That goes for NTs too of course, as there have been plenty of NTs whose reputations have been tarnished by a bully and they are reluctant to take action - but Aspies get it worse when and if it does happen.

So do anti-bullying policies actually work?? Probably not...in general.

I find the policies that stop the obvious forms worse it is the invisible kinds that are the worse.



1000Knives
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24 Feb 2013, 11:16 pm

They make things worse. Real bullies can continue to do what they do, then when you say something bad about a bully, they will report you as a bully.



BlueMax
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25 Feb 2013, 1:43 am

1000Knives wrote:
They make things worse. Real bullies can continue to do what they do, then when you say something bad about a bully, they will report you as a bully.


Look up: DARVO - http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/01/19/presto-change-o-darvo-deny-attack-and-reverse-victim-and-offender/
Image
Presto-change-o! The victim gets attacked and called the "abuser", while the actual abuser cries tears while laughing on the inside. It's insideous and pure evil.
And commonplace. :evil:
It happens around workplaces and WP on a regular basis.



Jayo
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25 Feb 2013, 8:25 pm

BlueMax wrote:
1000Knives wrote:
They make things worse. Real bullies can continue to do what they do, then when you say something bad about a bully, they will report you as a bully.


Look up: DARVO - http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/01/19/presto-change-o-darvo-deny-attack-and-reverse-victim-and-offender/
Image
Presto-change-o! The victim gets attacked and called the "abuser", while the actual abuser cries tears while laughing on the inside. It's insideous and pure evil.
And commonplace. :evil:
It happens around workplaces and WP on a regular basis.


Well, that's where it helps to document everything, right? And how much would they be inclined to believe a supervisor that one of their staff is bullying THEM? And don't you think these "people" have too much pride to admit that they were being "bullied" by someone under them? Usually they're very narcissistic and arrogant, so the reversal would be demeaning for them...kind of a paradox as it were...



managertina
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25 Feb 2013, 11:17 pm

Hey there,

That happened in my last job. I was a first time supervisor, and everyone went over my head. All nine individuals. Not funny.

Bullying by underlings can be symptomatic of a few things.

1) underlings feeling entitled because they have been there longer. Happens all the time, and particularly if they are also twice your age, as mine were.

2) communications issues, not only between you and your boss and coworkers, but also between boss and coworkers. The boss should know what they are like, no questions asked.

3) lack of effective mentoring for supervisors. Everyone needs a mentor. Feeling isolated and bullied leads to problems that are everyone's concern. Sounds like a cliché, but it happened to me last year.



BlueMax
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26 Feb 2013, 2:13 am

managertina wrote:
Hey there,

That happened in my last job. I was a first time supervisor, and everyone went over my head. All nine individuals. Not funny.

Bullying by underlings can be symptomatic of a few things.

1) underlings feeling entitled because they have been there longer. Happens all the time, and particularly if they are also twice your age, as mine were.

2) communications issues, not only between you and your boss and coworkers, but also between boss and coworkers. The boss should know what they are like, no questions asked.

3) lack of effective mentoring for supervisors. Everyone needs a mentor. Feeling isolated and bullied leads to problems that are everyone's concern. Sounds like a cliché, but it happened to me last year.


Heck yes to all these!
Different example: I had a short stint at a bank, hired at a level above teller due to my abilities and experience elsewhere. I was brought to some podunk town for "training" but the manager disappeared for the next two months, not training me at all. Someone else was later told to step in and train me but she never spent so much as an hour... eventually I was thrown into the front teller position so other people could cycle for vacations. I seemed to serve more customers and had better customer compliments than anyone there, but the other ladies at the till complained bitterly about a man ruining their all-girl team, and about my being hired at a level above them with no experience. They all teamed together to tell the district manager who hired me about how "slow" I was. They teamed up to turn their backs on me at every opportunity. At potlucks, they refused to eat my dishes, refused to speak to me beyond work requirements and set me up for failure at every opportunity (like assigning me the one safe that was "finnicky" and had to have its dialed numbers off just a little... they all sneered as it took over 30min to open the damned safe.) They succeeded, of course... with my aspie social skills, I couldn't convince the district manager about what was going on... after all - a team of seven women vs. one weird man? No contest.


Wherever you go, wherever you work - mob rule is always the norm.



managertina
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26 Feb 2013, 9:29 am

Bluemax, I can relate.

I moved a thousand miles for a job where I was brought in in the middle of 'rush' season, and my supervisor went on holiday for a month shortly hereafter, so alternates for managing the location were in place, but i had no mentor. While I had a high dedication to customer service, other aspects of the job were overwhelming. Like, I had to do payroll and scheduling for the entire department while being at the customer service desk. I had never done either, and was made to feel slow that it was taking me time to pick up these duties in addition to learning to be a supervisor. And I had to supervise nine people, each with a different set of responsibilities, four of whom thought that I should be planning their story hours for the week (I'm a librarian, but the job is more about people management than it is about books). Four is a ridiculous amount of work. And they all complained about me! I did not see this then as bullying, but frankly, if I catch a whiff of anyone doing this to my current staff (I supervise a much smaller department with only three people, all of whom do the same task and are good at what they do and kind to boot), I would say it was bullying and would never do it to a newbie.



NowhereMan1966
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26 Feb 2013, 3:02 pm

I also hear ya, Bluemax.

My last job, it was a great position but required training and of course, a computer workstation. I take notes and watch but I learn by doing. It took over two weeks to get my computer so I was hobbled from the start. It was document proofreading, see if they were notarized and signed plus each State (US) required different forms to fill out. Well, I got my computer but was a few weeks behind and sometimes I was told I was too slow. Well, when you got to worry about which State and so on, until you learn, you have to be careful because if I speed it up, there are chances of mistakes. I think the last straw was that my supervisor above me got his friend on and I was cut. As a last note, they spent more time training him than me, basically, I was thrown to the wolves.

I hate office politics, I've had office jobs where I was by myself, even in the basement, I liked those, I just sat at a terminal and just ran my radio on talkshows or music. BTW, sometimes when people watch me, I screw up since the distraction is so great.



BlueMax
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27 Feb 2013, 1:19 am

I love those leave-me-alone jobs too. I'd give anything to be a proofreader!! My favorite and best job was rewriting customer comments and forwarding them to the appropriate people. Translating jibberish into clear, concise English all day with my headphones on - it was heavenly!!

...then they shipped the job to India or somewhere. :cry:

But that bit about training the other guy instead of you... that just sucks. Promotions, favours, perks and more all go to the people that are "liked"... there's no denying it. People often don't like us for tiny, unconscious reasons... which we put out as aspies.

It's possible to overcome - but difficult and taxing!



NowhereMan1966
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27 Feb 2013, 2:44 pm

BlueMax wrote:
I love those leave-me-alone jobs too. I'd give anything to be a proofreader!! My favorite and best job was rewriting customer comments and forwarding them to the appropriate people. Translating jibberish into clear, concise English all day with my headphones on - it was heavenly!!

...then they shipped the job to India or somewhere. :cry:

But that bit about training the other guy instead of you... that just sucks. Promotions, favours, perks and more all go to the people that are "liked"... there's no denying it. People often don't like us for tiny, unconscious reasons... which we put out as aspies.

It's possible to overcome - but difficult and taxing!


Sorry I didn't add this but they brought him in and left me out in the cold so I'm looking again. In fact, one of the guys, who was a paramedic, knew I was an Aspie, he picked it up right away. I dunno if he would have been on my side or not, tough to say but the boss above him brought his friend on so I think I was pushed out. Personally, I think we could have used an extra team member with the volume of work and I did have a bad start with the delay on getting my computer and all. Shame, it was a good paying job too which has me really bummed.



DoodleDoo
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27 Feb 2013, 11:40 pm

It has nothing to do with benevolence, those anti bully, gay stuff, sex harassing classes/policies. Its all about liability to the employer, the employer is just trying to protect themselves from lawsuits.



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28 Feb 2013, 11:17 pm

My aim in life is self employment as much as possible. If I don't like a client I can simply not take his business.