Good Article about autism and females

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whirlingmind
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01 Mar 2013, 12:46 pm

http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillin ... st-autism/

Excerpt:

Quote:

My first question is, Are we certain that girls are less likely than boys to have autism? Evidence suggests that autistic females tend to manifest their autism differently from autistic males, yet most diagnostic criteria seem to be tailored to the male manifestations and most studies rely on these criteria. In fact, I know one diagnosed autistic woman who was excluded from a study of autistic adults because her family reported that she engaged in imaginary or pretend play as a child. But the thing is, autistic girls do engage in imaginary or pretend play more than autistic boys, so why would that be an exclusionary criterion?

Which leads me to my second question: Are we asking the wrong question here? Is the issue that boys outpace girls when it comes to autism rates or that a girl or woman with autism can look a lot different from a boy or man with autism? There is a known diagnostic sex bias: Girls who meet diagnostic criteria for autism are less likely than boys to be diagnosed with it unless their symptoms are quite intense. The authors address the question of differences in how autism looks between girls and boys but focus on the idea that girls might have to show greater severity compared to boys for a diagnosis. But what if instead, they just show a different set of traits?

The girls’ ‘protection’ might not come from protection against autism. Instead, it might come from being autistic in a different way from boys, a way that clinicians have yet to recognize, a way that leads researchers unknowingly to exclude autistic females from studies. It might not be that girls are better at “hiding” behaviors, as some suggest. Instead, their behaviors differ from those of autistic boys in ways that researchers are just beginning to understand.

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LizNY
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01 Mar 2013, 3:47 pm

Thank you for sharing. It sounds like they are figuring out what some of us individually learned the hard way.

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mrL
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02 Mar 2013, 12:12 am

LizNY wrote:

Thank you for sharing. It sounds like they are figuring out what some of us individually learned the hard way.

I honestly believe that if we are able to develop a better understanding of the way autism is manifested in females better, it will actually helps males as well. The way we look at autism and how we determine what fits the criteria is what needs better consideration and more careful evaluation.

UnLoser
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02 Mar 2013, 12:19 am

What autistic child hasn't engaged in imaginary play? Even if only in their head. I can't fathom never having imaginary fantasies of some sort.

Jinks
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02 Mar 2013, 5:35 am

UnLoser wrote:

What autistic child hasn't engaged in imaginary play? Even if only in their head. I can't fathom never having imaginary fantasies of some sort.

Yes, honestly, I never understood this criteria. Many autistic people are some of the most imaginitive people I have met and I think it is a remnant from the past, when most of the AS people studied were very left-brained, maths/science oriented boys. Fortunately, it's downplayed in the new DSM-V criteria compared to before, though still mentioned.

Thank you for sharing this article, it's very insightful and I particularly liked the excerpt you posted. From my own experience and many others I have read on here, I think it's spot on that autism manifests differently (and is harder to spot) in females, and that it's really important that the definition of autism is expanded to include the differences observed in female autistics. This is certain to help a lot of boys as well, because I don't believe that brain gender is absolute - the girls with more masculine mental traits who are displaying more masculine symptoms of autism are probably the girls most likely to be picked up, but there are probably also males with a more female presentation of autism if they happen to have more feminine mental traits than average. Having autism also increases the likelihood of gender incongruence, after all.

It's almost a pity that the DSM has been revised just as this awareness is beginning to take hold, as it will probably be some time before it is revised again. Hopefully, when it is, there will be more discussion about the sex differences and signs to look for.

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02 Mar 2013, 6:07 am

well, tell us the symptoms of autism for females and how they are different than those for males. Any takers?

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whirlingmind
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02 Mar 2013, 7:00 am

Jinks wrote:

UnLoser wrote:

What autistic child hasn't engaged in imaginary play? Even if only in their head. I can't fathom never having imaginary fantasies of some sort.

Good post. I think they have jumped the gun. I wonder how many females were involved in the decision to revise and the revision itself. More to the point, how many autistic people were consulted and how many experts aware of the differences in females were consulted.

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RemiBeaker
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02 Mar 2013, 8:29 am

Warsie wrote:

well, tell us the symptoms of autism for females and how they are different than those for males. Any takers?

A few links about it:

http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/index.php ... s-syndrome
http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/index.php ... -aspergers
http://www.help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_a58 ... 83e339.JPG
http://www.help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_a58 ... 1d2ab3.JPG

whirlingmind
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02 Mar 2013, 8:51 am

Warsie wrote:

well, tell us the symptoms of autism for females and how they are different than those for males. Any takers?

RemiBeaker wrote:

Here's more:

http://docs.autismresearchcentre.com/pa ... %20ASC.pdf

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... =digest_12 an article on the failure to sufficiently diagnose females on the spectrum.

http://www.yourlittleprofessor.com/girls.html

Dr. Tony Attwood, in his paper about girls with Asperger's, noted that girls

Quote:

"are more motivated to learn and quicker to understand key concepts in comparison to boys with Asperger's Syndrome of equivalent intellectual ability." As such, he predicted that girls would fare better in the long run, if they're properly diagnosed.
In the book "Safety Skills for Asperger Women" foreword by Tony Attwood it says: "While boys with Asperger's syndrome can fixate on facts, and some girls with Asperger's syndrome can also have an encyclopaedic knowledge of specific topics, there can be an intense interest in reading and escaping into fiction, enjoying a fantasy world, creating a new persona, talking to imaginary friends and writing fiction at an early age." and

Girls are more likely to apologise and appease when making a social error. Peers and adults may then forgive and forget, but without realising that a pattern is emerging. However, the girl with Asperger's syndrome is increasingly recognising her social confusion and frequent faux pas. She may react by trying not to be noticed in a group, for others to be aware of her social confusion, preferring to be on the periphery of social situations. However, girls with Asperger's syndrome can be avid observers of human behaviour and try to decipher what they are supposed to do or say. Another strategy to having problems with social reasoning is by being well behaved and compliant at school so as not to be noticed or recognised as a different." and

"While boys with Asperger's syndrome can fixate on facts, and some girls with Asperger's syndrome can also have an encyclopaedic knowledge of specific topics, there can be an intense interest in reading and escaping into fiction, enjoying a fantasy world, creating a new persona, talking to imaginary friends and writing fiction at an early age . There may be single but intense friendships with another girl, who may provide guidance for her in social situations, perhaps in a benevolent way and in return, the girl with Asperger's syndrome is not interested in the 'bitchy' behaviour of her peers and is a loyal and helpful friend."

http://www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/a ... ctrum.aspx

http://aspergersgirls.wordpress.com/201 ... les-girls/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/women ... girls.html

You should be an expert on the subject now!

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Warsie
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02 Mar 2013, 1:48 pm

whirlingmind wrote:

You should be an expert on the subject now!

I'm not female =P

But....it makes sense. Given some females I knew who behaved similarly.

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Sweetleaf
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02 Mar 2013, 2:14 pm

Just so long as they don't then exclude females with autism based on them not being quite in line with the female criteria, then I suppose its good that they are looking into how maybe the disorder can effect genders differently.

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Chloe33
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28 Mar 2013, 3:45 pm

As for lack of social skill and having repetitive behaviors i would have knocked it out the ballpark as a child. Many times i acted out physically aggressive rather than verbalize, resulting in trouble.
I think normal girls tend to assimilate to others and their environment better than i.
I just don't care to "blend" in and thus have dealt with consequences; people realize i am different.
However for the Autistic girl who is able to blend or assimilate well to NTs, they might be missed for a diagnosis.

I've never been "mothered" by other girls did they mean only aspergers and not hfa?

http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/index.php ... s-syndrome

Thus girls with Asperger’s Syndrome are often ‘mothered’ by other girls. They may prompt the child when they are unsure what to do or say in social situations and comfort them when they are distressed. In contrast, boys are notorious for their intolerance of children who are different and are more prone to be ‘predatory’.

Like in women's prisons you'll find "prison families" consisting solely of prisoners banded together, as opposed to mens prisons where gangs and violence is rampant hmmm

The "mothered" thing sounds familiar as i may have witnessed it amongst peers, yet honestly i don't remember exactly. I wouldn't necessarily call it "mothering" or whatever as that makes it sound like it might a good thing, when in reality its possible a girl or girls were coercing an introverted girl. This study may be flawed in that aspect. We have mean girls.

During my school years, there have been folks who stick up for those bullied out of their own moral values. Yet the whole "mothered" bit seems a little too much. Its very possible they were being manipulated as some are so shy and young girls like my NT wife could be very manipulative.

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28 Mar 2013, 4:14 pm

Quote:

Through trial and error we lost friends. We over-shared, spilling out intimate details to strangers; we raised our hand too much in class, or didn’t raise our hand at all; we had little impulse control with our speaking, monopolizing conversations and bringing the subject back to ourselves. We aren’t narcissistic and controlling–we know we are not, but we come across that way. We bring the subject back to ourselves because that is how we make sense of our world, that is how we believe we connect.

Whether I have an ASD or not I identify with the above...

I wish people in general would realise this...maybe they would stop verbally smacking people upside the head when they were only trying to help or chat. The number of times I have been accused of being narcissistic or self absorbed and all sorts of other things I was not in least bit being...I now either become defensive about people making any accusations or flee back into my own world again and end up regretting my decision to try and socialise at all.

Ergo why I think society should go away and leave me alone now.

Very interesting links on females with Asperger's...makes me feel less weird or alone somehow.

IdahoRose
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28 Mar 2013, 4:23 pm

I agree with this article. It makes perfect sense to me.

Nonperson
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28 Mar 2013, 4:24 pm

Quote:

I've never been "mothered" by other girls did they mean only aspergers and not hfa?

Yeah, me neither. I was tormented by other girls and still am by other women. Boys were the ones most likely to forgive/overlook my awful crime of being what I am. I think people of the same gender feel they have more to gain, socially, by attacking the weird person.

ker08
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28 Mar 2013, 5:53 pm

The part that got me when I first saw these articles on girls was about the covering. I've felt like a mimic my entire life, watching people to know how I was expected to act or react in a certain situation.

Additionally the one close friend thing. I've almost always had one or two close friends at a time. To be honest, it's really all I feel I can handle. Beyond that acquaintances are it for me and my immediate family.

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