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Has
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31 Mar 2013, 5:19 am

Just wondering whether there are many others out there familiar with having to create a persona in order to survive?

I have an extremely close immediate and extended family, and they don't really buy or have patience for Aspergers or ASD. My uncle who has Aspergers has basically been disowned by the family, called a "nutter" and all manner of other things. People still think it is some emotional issue, or something ridiculous to do with becoming too English (I'm a 3rd generation Immigrant from Iran). All my life up to about 6 months/ a year ago when I was ready to admit that I was almost certainly on the spectrum, I've had varying degrees of a fake persona just to see me through. It got to a level where I developed continual excuses for my strange behaviour, pretended to have more friends than I actually did, and pretended to be closer to them than I was, just to keep people from inquiring or feeling the need to intervene too much. Obviously, my level of difficulty relating to "society" was too extreme to go by unnoticed, and people knew I wasn't normal, but I insisted on keeping my true inner feelings of "otherness" well hidden. I finally feel, having gained confidence from researching ASD, and reading people's stories here that I can be my true self (and the fact that not being myself is tearing me apart in so many ways, physically and mentally).

Having got to this point I just wonder whether anyone can relate to this, and whether any of you out there have had to go to extreme levels of denial? Also have you been able to find a road back to some manner of self acceptance? Maybe there are some of you who can happily employ some acting techniques to get them by in certain situations while still maintaining your identity?

Thanks
Has



nessa238
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31 Mar 2013, 6:14 am

I never developed a persona and as a result have just dealt head on with the rejection that inevitably results

In one way it's been better as I don't have to expend mental energy keeping up an act; I can just be myself all the time, but on the other it means the average NT doesn't relate to me (and vice versa) and with the majority I'm seen as weird from the start

It does mean I make genuine connections with people though as I only tend to get on with others who aren't putting on a fake act.

I dont' think I could put on an act if I tried to be quite honest - my brain isn't quick enough to think of what I'm 'meant' to say in any given situation to give a particular impression. I've just never wanted to impress people or have a group of friends that badly. If they couldn't accept me as me I couldn't see the point in pretending to be someone else.

I think because I have no persona I often unnerve people. It's harder to cope in society without one but ultimately I think I'm in a stronger position in terms of the close connections I can make with others. Most people are connecting persona to persona whereas I connect actual person to actual person.

When I see most people interacting I think to myself 'Do they ever drop their act??' And in many cases I think they don't as they have become their persona.



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31 Mar 2013, 6:33 am

I do it. I'm often someone else. My brother could always tell when I was putting on a facade and would sometimes tease me or chide me over it (in a good/nice way). I never fortunately had to do it with family as much, but did/do it elsewhere. I think in my case since I didn't know how to "conduct myself properly" I'd mimic those who I thought did. TV/movie characters mostly. My normal behavior was very difficult on others when I was young, which I only knew if someone came right out and told me about it. To get away from having to deal with all that I became a hermit for 15 years. Working alone as a nightwatchman and being completely solitary at home. So, being by myself 95% of the time.

I started becoming social again about four years ago. And that whole time has been a process of going through various personas and facades. And lots of fine tuning. Even while communicating here, I'm fine tuning. And the personas I've been trying on lately are those of more eccentric but likable types. Personas closer to my own instead of ones so straitlaced and formal.

The one thing I've tried to focus on the most is appearing nice and friendly. Being considered a nice person seems to go a long ways. And I also just don't talk as much. I'm finding I can express myself just as well by being succinct rather than being verbose. I try to stay more relaxed as I tend to get manic when around others. But I am an oddball and don't try to hide that as much anymore because I think that just makes things worse. Weird slash straitlaced is a bad combo. It puts people off. Makes them wonder if you have multiple personalities. Especially when you keep shifting similar personas like a chameleon. It's a tough thing to deal with.



Last edited by briankelley on 31 Mar 2013, 6:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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31 Mar 2013, 6:35 am

I have been acting my whole life. I had to start to do so because my family was not exactly 'supportive' (to say it politely) and at the end it became my way of dealing with life. It's possible, but it gives problems too.

To do it, you have to create a coherent character. You can't play a different role every day or people will freak out. The best (in my opinion) is to play some slightly eccentric characters (up to a point) that allow you to 'cover' your issues, but that are at the same time are interesting enough to be accepted. And of course, you must feel identfied with it: there has to be some truth on it, otherwise it won't work long term. For example, I took as model a middle point between the father of my best friend (who was a very interesting person that I admired) and the classical british humour style. You must find your own character, of course.

At the end it becomes automatic, but exhausting too. It's a character, after all.

Two problems you have to be aware of:

(1) You're playing a role, not being yourself. Of course, being yourself is overrated, but at the end it the best way to feel confortable in your own skin. I did it because it was my way of surviving. Do it as much as necessary, but not more (or 'no more', I don't know which is the right way to say it).

And choose your close circle wisely, among who accept your inner self, not your character. This is not as easy as it could seem.

(2) Relationships. It's a BIG problem, since you will be successful with girls that like your character, not you. So be prepared to have a lot of failed relationships.


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briankelley
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31 Mar 2013, 6:49 am

Greb wrote:
(2) Relationships. It's a BIG problem, since you will be successful with girls that like your character, not you. So be prepared to have a lot of failed relationships.


If I ever do have a relationship, she's going to have to know I'm autistic. I already have a preplanned speech that starts off with my childhood history and diagnosis. I think people get it / accept it better when you give some background history as a preamble rather than just blurt it out. I'm not even interested in trying a relationship unless she's 100% willing to stand by her man. If she can't deal with the raw me, what's the point? Like you said, stick with personas closer to my own. Less acting involved. Less of a Jekyll and Hyde contrast.

I'm doing more to make people more aware of autism too, by being more involved with it. People always know what you're into if you want them too. I'm spending a lot more time on discussion groups like this. I'm going to see about being an autism volunteer. And I'm even going to try becoming a "Big Brother" to an autistic kid. I'm going to start wearing an autism pin so people will ask "what's that?". I'm looking to make it more of who I am and hopefully benefit others in the process, rather than trying so hard to keep it swept under the rug which benefits no one.



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31 Mar 2013, 8:19 am

Has wrote:
Just wondering whether there are many others out there familiar with having to create a persona in order to survive?

I have an extremely close immediate and extended family, and they don't really buy or have patience for Aspergers or ASD. My uncle who has Aspergers has basically been disowned by the family, called a "nutter" and all manner of other things. People still think it is some emotional issue, or something ridiculous to do with becoming too English (I'm a 3rd generation Immigrant from Iran). All my life up to about 6 months/ a year ago when I was ready to admit that I was almost certainly on the spectrum, I've had varying degrees of a fake persona just to see me through. It got to a level where I developed continual excuses for my strange behaviour, pretended to have more friends than I actually did, and pretended to be closer to them than I was, just to keep people from inquiring or feeling the need to intervene too much. Obviously, my level of difficulty relating to "society" was too extreme to go by unnoticed, and people knew I wasn't normal, but I insisted on keeping my true inner feelings of "otherness" well hidden. I finally feel, having gained confidence from researching ASD, and reading people's stories here that I can be my true self (and the fact that not being myself is tearing me apart in so many ways, physically and mentally).

Having got to this point I just wonder whether anyone can relate to this, and whether any of you out there have had to go to extreme levels of denial? Also have you been able to find a road back to some manner of self acceptance? Maybe there are some of you who can happily employ some acting techniques to get them by in certain situations while still maintaining your identity?


I never consciously created a persona, but I adopted social roles based on a lot of observation and copying. I made myself say things that I never felt right saying. It never stopped me struggling, and being very passive sometimes you can get pulled along in the flow.

Having done so for years, the negative effects are now showing. I can't do it any more. It's not worth it to your wellbeing - as you are luckily finding out now.

BTW if you live in England and your relatives think AS behaviour is due to "becoming too English" how come they haven't noticed that the vast majority of English people don't behave like people with Asperger's? If they really think such "nutter" type behaviour is what English people behave like, why do they choose to live in England? It's illogical - the only other answer is that they are in utter denial of there being any possibility of a developmental disability in their genetic material. There are cultures where any sort of behaviour outside of the norm is considered so embarrassing and unacceptable that they have no qualms about disowning such relatives, perhaps you ought to tread carefully with who you tell what amongst your relatives.


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Last edited by whirlingmind on 31 Mar 2013, 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

physicsnut42
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31 Mar 2013, 8:53 am

whirlingmind wrote:
I never consciously created a persona, but I adopted social roles based on a lot of observation and copying. I made myself say things that I never felt right saying. It never stopped me struggling, and being very passive sometimes you can get pulled along in the flow.


That's exactly what happened to me. When I was younger I was very stubborn, and voiced my opinions quite loudly, but not so much anymore. It's caused me to do many things I later regretted.


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Has
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31 Mar 2013, 9:00 am

Despite the sheers lengths I've gone to to hide myself, I have big problems in maintaining a consistent character. Some days I can push myself to fill the role required. I can dispense the pleasantries, and cope with the social situations I hate. On other days my brain is simply not working fast enough to be aware of every circumstance where some words or some gesture or some facial expression even, is required of me.

I also find that when people feel they have the green light to get close to you, they want to share everything, know you inside out, how you react to things, what your opinions are, and where they can categorise you in the social hierarchy. Mutual affirmation is very important. It is difficult to put forth something that is false in these situations and stand by it. I find it is easier to be as light and jokey as possible with people I know, as superficial acting is a lot easier, and ultra polite, nice and quiet with people I meet for the first time. Unfortunately those two styles can't cover every eventuality. I fall apart in many places where people probe deeper, or even hit me with a question I wasn't expecting.

I think a convincing persona for the shallow side of things is fine and only moderately draining/exhausting, but beyond a certain point I think I want people to know that I'm Autistic. As briankelley says I don't think sweeping it under the rug benefits anyone. My inconsistent and shallow characters have probably got people closer to putting me in the nuthouse than the fact I was born with a different kind of brain wiring. What I also resent a little is not being able to turn off this learned worry (even now), of "am I saying the right thing?", and "how will people react to this?". It truly drives me crazy sometimes. It's like I built an extra artificial hemisphere of my brain to try and scrutinize the parts of myself that I put out to the world and it is fueled by fear and adrenaline, and not wanting to be "found out".



Last edited by Has on 31 Mar 2013, 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Has
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31 Mar 2013, 9:03 am

[i][quote="whirlingmind"

BTW if you live in England and your relatives think AS behaviour is due to "becoming too English" how come they haven't noticed that the vast majority of English people don't behave like people with Asperger's? If they really think such "nutter" type behaviour is what English people behave like, why do they choose to live in England? It's illogical - the only other answer is that they are in utter denial of there being any possibility of a developmental disability in their genetic material. There are cultures where any sort of behaviour outside of the norm is considered so embarrassing and unacceptable that they have no qualms about disowning such relatives, perhaps you ought to tread carefully with who you tell what amongst your relatives.[/quote]
[/i]

I completely agree with you whirlingmind, it is absolutely illogical. I think denial is part of it, and also the religious idea that any differences from the norm are moral failings on our part. I believe most of them choose to live in England as it is a far better country than anywhere else that is open to them. The reference to "too English" may be something to do with the stereotype that English people are less likely to have a suffocatingly closeknit family and are more individualistic, but I'm really not sure they've ever sought reliable data to confirm this idea. It has been suggested to me that I am too sensitive to their bluster and they don't mean to act on the things they say, and that perhaps they themselves don't always believe the things they say in anger. It is true that I take statements people make very seriously, and it is probably the case that they won't react in an extreme manner towards me even if I give up the pretense that there is still a glimmer of hope I could be "normal" one day.

I do sincerely feel for the many people out there that suffer because the cultures they are born into are presumed (by the other members) to know so much more on every subject than modern science.



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31 Mar 2013, 11:20 am

Has wrote:
Just wondering whether there are many others out there familiar with having to create a persona in order to survive?

I have an extremely close immediate and extended family, and they don't really buy or have patience for Aspergers or ASD. My uncle who has Aspergers has basically been disowned by the family, called a "nutter" and all manner of other things. People still think it is some emotional issue, or something ridiculous to do with becoming too English (I'm a 3rd generation Immigrant from Iran). All my life up to about 6 months/ a year ago when I was ready to admit that I was almost certainly on the spectrum, I've had varying degrees of a fake persona just to see me through. It got to a level where I developed continual excuses for my strange behaviour, pretended to have more friends than I actually did, and pretended to be closer to them than I was, just to keep people from inquiring or feeling the need to intervene too much. Obviously, my level of difficulty relating to "society" was too extreme to go by unnoticed, and people knew I wasn't normal, but I insisted on keeping my true inner feelings of "otherness" well hidden. I finally feel, having gained confidence from researching ASD, and reading people's stories here that I can be my true self (and the fact that not being myself is tearing me apart in so many ways, physically and mentally).

Having got to this point I just wonder whether anyone can relate to this, and whether any of you out there have had to go to extreme levels of denial? Also have you been able to find a road back to some manner of self acceptance? Maybe there are some of you who can happily employ some acting techniques to get them by in certain situations while still maintaining your identity?

Thanks
Has


I'm similar to you, and I'm trying to simultaneously improve my acting skills (voice is a handicap) while also trying to learn self-acceptance. If you figure it out, let me know!

My brother, who has other mental health problems and possibly AS also, was ostracized from the family like your uncle was.



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31 Mar 2013, 9:58 pm

Quote:
Just wondering whether there are many others out there familiar with having to create a persona in order to survive?


Well sort of, I project what the crowd wants, and then slowly insinuate my true self. I change outwardly to conform to the group I am with. I hide my intelligence, although sometimes it leaks through ;-)



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01 Apr 2013, 5:03 am

It has never even occurred to me at any point.

I couldn't be bothered, too much work to remember being someone else.


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01 Apr 2013, 5:46 am

Ironically, creating personas & hiding behind them like an actor in character is a documented ASD coping mechanism.

They can be long term, or almost merely momentary - ie putting yourself into a "role," as it suits the situation around you & acting in that persona in order to navigate the social scene playing out, or to deal with something, or to get something you want etc.

I've certainly done the short term thing, psyching myself out to do something I'm anxious about, putting myself "into character," w/ a much more confident persona - and then acting/behaving that way well enough for it to feel very very real, almost natural. I think it would take up far too much energy & intellectual processing power to try to stay "in character," 24/7, but it certainly has had it's momentary advantages.


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Has
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01 Apr 2013, 5:56 am

nessa238 wrote:
I never developed a persona and as a result have just dealt head on with the rejection that inevitably results


and

"It has never even occurred to me at any point.

I couldn't be bothered, too much work to remember being someone else."



I admire the fortitude that must take. Do you survive/ get by well in life without having to compromise yourself?


"I'm similar to you, and I'm trying to simultaneously improve my acting skills (voice is a handicap) while also trying to learn self-acceptance. If you figure it out, let me know!"


If anyone figures it out I think there will be a lot of people keen to know about it!

"I made myself say things that I never felt right saying. It never stopped me struggling, and being very passive sometimes you can get pulled along in the flow."

Can relate to that completely. There are so many ways in which it hasn't been worth acting. I feel I've lost part of my dignity through passivity and fear of exposing myself.



Has
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01 Apr 2013, 6:12 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Ironically, creating personas & hiding behind them like an actor in character is a documented ASD coping mechanism.


It is a relief to read that. I had no idea what response to expect to this topic and whether I was just insane for trying to be something I'm not.



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01 Apr 2013, 6:54 am

Has wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
I never developed a persona and as a result have just dealt head on with the rejection that inevitably results


and

"It has never even occurred to me at any point.

I couldn't be bothered, too much work to remember being someone else."



I admire the fortitude that must take. Do you survive/ get by well in life without having to compromise yourself?


It depends of your definition of 'get by well in life'

I have my own house as I held down a job for over 10 years and I live with a friend I get on well with but I don't work now and feel most people see me as 'different' and often respond in a dismissive or disrespectful manner towards me.

In my opinion I don't look 'average' to begin with so people often have a problem with me before I've even opened my mouth so I reckon this has given me a major chip on my shoulder that's made me determined not to give this type of person an inch unless necessary. So I've got a defiant attitude against the world rather than an 'I want to fit right in' one. I'm quiet and self-effacing and do nothing to draw attention but I often seem to nevertheless and when you've had a lifetime of people making fun of you you tend to just prefer to avoid them. I've never understood why anyone would want to fit in with cruel people. I get along fine with intelligent respectful people who take people as they come but they are in the minority unfortunately and you have to wade through a lot of awful people to find them.

Society gives me no incentive to 'play the game' so I don't. I avoid it completely most of the time as it destroys my self-esteem if I'm exposed to it too much.