Fugly dude gets the hot chick: Media skews male perspective

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Tyri0n
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27 Apr 2013, 2:09 am

It seems to be as if the media is full of heartwarming stories of an ugly guy who gets a hot woman. The reverse rarely, if ever, appears.

- Spiderman
-the Big Bang Theory (Leonard)
- Game of Thrones (King Joffrey & Margery, Tyrion Lannister and all his girls, forgetting for a moment how much he paid them)
- Suits (Mike Ross)
- Roxanne
-Beauty and the Beast (of course, it's an archetype!!)

Thus, average and ugly men feel they are entitled to women who are far above their own looks, refuse to look at plainer women, and then complain about being rejected (by 10/10's). As someone who grew up until age 18 without access to media, I've noticed that other guys' evaluations of women seem to be skewed. What I would call 8/10, others might call 5/10. It's as if most guys rate 80% of women as being below average.

In my experience talking with aspie guys, many, being unsophisticated, swallow the media portrayals far more uncritically than NT men do. I once knew a skinny hunchback aspie guy who stood at 5'6, was horribly sexist, and had awful hygiene who claimed he only dated tall skinny blondes. At 27, he was still a virgin.

Has Beauty and the Beast really corrupted the culture this much?



BlueMax
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27 Apr 2013, 2:20 am

Well, I don't know all of your examples - but in a few, the pretty girls never gave the ugly/average guys a chance until they really impressed them with some spectacular feats and/or saved their lives.

This could be an interesting delve into the male and female minds...



ezbzbfcg2
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27 Apr 2013, 3:06 am

Tyri0n wrote:
In my experience talking with aspie guys, many, being unsophisticated, swallow the media portrayals far more uncritically than NT men do. I once knew a skinny hunchback aspie guy who stood at 5'6, was horribly sexist, and had awful hygiene who claimed he only dated tall skinny blondes. At 27, he was still a virgin.


I dunno man. A lot of the women that are ranted and raved about in the media don't overly impress me. A lot of guys, presumably NT, go on about how hot the biggest celebrity in Maxim or People or whatever magazine is. You're saying they're more critical than aspies?

Plus, a lot of girls I liked or thought were cute, other guys just dismissed outright.

But an interesting thing you'll notice, perhaps, is that even if men don't seem interested in a girl, once they know you are, they'll also take an interest. Like it's a competition, even though they wouldn't have been into the chick initially.

I think your observation is off base.



PresidentPorpoise
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27 Apr 2013, 3:52 am

I would agree with a lot of this, like when you refer to "Beauty and the Beast" as the archetype (although I'm sure that there's probably similar stories predating it) of these kinds of stories, where the moral is basically "it's what's on the inside that counts". And it's a good point that's been made over and over and over again in various storytelling media, but it's almost always a guy who's the "beast" and a woman who's the "beauty". Most societies throughout history have exhibited varying degrees of sexism, so that's no surprise. And I think this is the way that we present a lot of stories today, and I think a lot of people just follow basic storytelling tropes and archetypes without any real awareness that they're doing so, or any attempt to use or subvert such archetypes and tropes in a clever way such that female characters can be more than "the maiden"/"really hot chick who exists solely to be the significant other of our male hero, regardless of whether he is or isn't attractive".

I dunno if aspie guys are necessarily more likely than other guys to be sexist, but we are more likely to be unsuccessful in finding relationships. So perhaps we're more likely to identify with the archetypal "beast" character from these types of stories and this coupled with difficulties in understanding the subtleties of socialization could tend to make aspie guys more likely to naively assume that this archetype is something that regularly happens in life, and that it's the way that things should be.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if men as a whole were more likely to rate women as less attractive on women than women as a whole tend to rate men. I do know however that studies have shown that couples are likely to be of comparative attractiveness. I'm not sure if that's really related to the rest of my post, or if my post has any real cohesive point, so sorry about that.

Also, I'm not sure if GoT is necessarily a good example of your point. Most of your examples don't really fit the mold of the trope, and there's even SPOILERS?: one good example of a subversion of the trope with Brienne (who is described as objectively unattractive in the books) and Jaime (who is described as objectively good-looking in the books, and Nikolaj Coster-Waldeau's a pretty good looking actor, objectively speaking).



Wolfheart
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27 Apr 2013, 5:54 am

I do think many guys on the spectrum are going for girls out of their league and overlooking ones that might be more suitable for them and this is why many of these guys are unsuccessful. They are placing unfair expectations on women and their partners and this is unrealistic.



feenie
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27 Apr 2013, 6:26 am

If anything it is the reverse! It's soooooo much easier for women to get laid, plain janes included, than men. Men will have sex with anything that moves basically. I saw a plain Jane (but I found her attractive, I like girls with some meat on her. So as long as she had a cute face) say how getting sexy is easy but true love is hard to find, they are even bragging about the ease in which they can get sex ffs! If you are a guy who wants casual sex, don't even bother if you aren't AT LEAST a 8/10 in looks. If consider myself a solid 7 at least and its a tough market. That's why I see escorts.

Relationships don't require men to be so good looking, but you need to make up for it in other areas. I'm intelligent, introspective, philosophical, caring, etc. but I'm also introverted (I have tried going out often. It's not for me), too stubborn to conform sufficiently, think too much outside the box and have trouble relating to people (but especially woman) and my conversations are one-sided if I am bored of what you are talking about and want to change direction in the conversation. Plus it can be difficult for me to carry conversation since you can't just jump right into deep topics. I suck at and despise small talk. I'm too individualistic and stubborn for long-term relationships I gather.

Back to looks, I have tried batting below my average many times. It got me laid once, it got me near-laid another time (I couldn't get it up, I have low testosterone so it's a frequent issue. We did perform oral on each other and were bf/gf but she dumped me. Probably because I couldn't bang her. We were 18 then). I've had a sexual offer from a 41 year old married woman but I chickened out because I wasn't attracted to her. Another 41 year old divorced woman wants to hook up but I don't have a place of my own and she lives with kids so it probably won't happen and I'm not attracted to her anyway. Seeing escorts allows me to have sex with hot women. But nothing long-term can really sprig from that. I've had sex with a 34 year old escort 6 times (sometimes with penetration, sometimes without. Depending on my sex drive) but its not the same as having a steady girlfriend. I've seen her for a total of 6 hours and we texted a bit. Ideally I'd like to have more sex and talk more with someone regular. And I miss that rush of oxytocin that goes to your brain when you have affections for a woman and she has affections for you too.

My one regret is that I never achieved penetration with a woman I "loved" (that ex who dumped me. Her body wasn't attractive but she has a beautiful face and that was good enough for me). Only with a girl I had casual sex with (she fell in love with me but she was obese and facially unattractive for a relationship with me. I have some standards!) and the escorts (who stop loving me when my paid for time is up! lol The escort I slept with 6 times says that she feels chemistry with me in bed (I don't doubt this. I'm a cute guy. Not top tier but cute and girls ive went in dates with and chatted online have said as much. And that obese civilian was addicted to the sex and wanted it every time she saw me but I couldn't always perform). But ultimately giving her time away to me for free is bad for business. She gives me discounts and perks but if she gives it to me or free, she has to give it to every guy she sees for free...) at the end of the day though there is more to physical expression than penetration. Looks at lesbians. I'm fortunate to have at least to have been loved.



JanuaryMan
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27 Apr 2013, 7:36 am

BlueMax wrote:
Well, I don't know all of your examples - but in a few, the pretty girls never gave the ugly/average guys a chance until they really impressed them with some spectacular feats and/or saved their lives.

This could be an interesting delve into the male and female minds...


Hey Max, how many Aspie guys like comic books and superheroes? How many fantasize about being the loser turn hero or the underdog that gets the amazing girl? A lot of them I'm imagining! I certainly was this way in school. Tyrion might be onto something!



b9
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27 Apr 2013, 9:19 am

it is much less likely that you will capture the heart of someone if you think in terms of physical good looks.
people want to hop into your heart if it is loving and indiscriminating. many people however like looks more than anything else, and their love is cheap.



Aspie1
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27 Apr 2013, 9:37 am

BlueMax wrote:
Well, I don't know all of your examples - but in a few, the pretty girls never gave the ugly/average guys a chance until they really impressed them with some spectacular feats and/or saved their lives.

I'm not a good-looking guy by any means, but I got quite a bit of attention from attractive women on my past cruise; I went on it by myself. What helped me meet women is dancing. I've been taking dance classes on-and-off since 2003, while I'm not pro, I reached a point where I get compliments. The styles I know well are Latin and swing. Now, swing runs in 4/4 time, and so do a lot of rock and pop songs. So the swing moves can be fairly easily adapted for most clubs music that's not rap or techno.

Anyway, I was in a tourist bar in port. Very beautiful sight: fun music playing, people dancing up a storm, ocean lapping the shoreline, and cruise ships towering in the background. A song I knew how to dance to came on. I approached a girl standing near me with what could easily be the most effective line in existence: "hey, what ship are you from?" (only works in ports of call on cruises when there are multiple ships docked). She named a ship other than mine. I jokingly said "I'm from [my ship's name], but I'll dance with you anyway", grabbed her by the hand, and started swing dancing with her, occasionally walking her through the dance verbally. Her facial expression said: "I'm not sure what this is, but this is pretty fun". After the dance when we talked, she got all affectionate: acting all cuddly, rubbing her hair against my face, intertwining her fingers with mine, etc. (She was drunk.) I tried to kiss her, but she didn't let me. Then she went to her ship. Later, when I was walking back to my ship, I must have looked so happy that even a local police officer smiled back at me.

My point is: if you haven't already done so, take some lessons, and learn to dance. It won't win you any brownie points with college girls, but women 26 and older love it. Your looks don't matter as much if you stick to Latin clubs, because of the "it's just a dance" mentality there. You will also learn things like approach etiquette, "how close is too close", gauging your dance partner's comfort level, physical contact boundaries, etc. What I also noticed is that women will allow a lot more physical contact with men who are good dancers than with those who aren't, because in their minds, whatever is being done could be a part of the dance move, rather than an attempt to cop a feel.



Tyri0n
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27 Apr 2013, 10:07 am

So, if it's a hero thing, then GoT would not be applicable, except in the case of Tyrion, perhaps. Joffrey is no hero, even though he's ugly as f**k and Margery/Natalie Dormer is the hottest girt I've seen on TV, like ever. :lol:



billiscool
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27 Apr 2013, 10:30 am

Tyri0n wrote:
It seems to be as if the media is full of heartwarming stories of an ugly guy who gets a hot woman. The reverse rarely, if ever, appears.

- Spiderman
-the Big Bang Theory (Leonard)
- Game of Thrones (King Joffrey & Margery, Tyrion Lannister and all his girls, forgetting for a moment how much he paid them)
- Suits (Mike Ross)
- Roxanne
-Beauty and the Beast (of course, it's an archetype!!)

Thus, average and ugly men feel they are entitled to women who are far above their own looks, refuse to look at plainer women, and then complain about being rejected (by 10/10's). As someone who grew up until age 18 without access to media, I've noticed that other guys' evaluations of women seem to be skewed. What I would call 8/10, others might call 5/10. It's as if most guys rate 80% of women as being below average.

In my experience talking with aspie guys, many, being unsophisticated, swallow the media portrayals far more uncritically than NT men do. I once knew a skinny hunchback aspie guy who stood at 5'6, was horribly sexist, and had awful hygiene who claimed he only dated tall skinny blondes. At 27, he was still a virgin.

Has Beauty and the Beast really corrupted the culture this much?


and don't forget about the ''stupid advice'' of you need ''confidence'' as long as a man has ''confidence'' he gets the girl, no matter how ugly, how stinky, how rude,
how short, how fat he is, as long as he has confidence, he gets the girl



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27 Apr 2013, 3:58 pm

Me and wolfheart may not be be fugly, nor fat, but I think we both know you have to live life a happy camper or else everyone will think your a grumpy old troll. If you are a troll, at least be chivalrous, kind, gentle, and able to protect the ladies you do attract, that will make you a good man.


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appletheclown
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27 Apr 2013, 4:01 pm

Wolfheart wrote:
I do think many guys on the spectrum are going for girls out of their league and overlooking ones that might be more suitable for them and this is why many of these guys are unsuccessful. They are placing unfair expectations on women and their partners and this is unrealistic.


Exactly, and not actually owning up to their expectations and going after these women that are out of their league makes it even harder than that. I mean if you do have high standards and enjoy women out of your league, you have to let them know you are the better guy somehow by actually going after them right?


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appletheclown
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27 Apr 2013, 4:05 pm

Wolfheart wrote:
I do think many guys on the spectrum are going for girls out of their league and overlooking ones that might be more suitable for them and this is why many of these guys are unsuccessful. They are placing unfair expectations on women and their partners and this is unrealistic.

But I agree, there are a lot of women who get overlooked just as aspies do, that would be more than willing to spend the rest of their lives with one, and a lot of them tend to be more apt to adapt if they know at least one guy actually likes them for who they are.


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27 Apr 2013, 4:08 pm

There has been a trend of wp threads/posts accusing that guys here are being too picky and only wanting supermodels and princesses hence why they're failing, on what basis you're saying that?



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27 Apr 2013, 4:10 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
There has been a trend of wp threads/posts accusing that guys here are being too picky and only wanting supermodels and princesses hence why they're failing, on what basis you're saying that?


I don't know. I guess guys who don't care and actually are confident about this stuff just like to get under peoples skin.... :lol:


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