NT wife wanting to learn aspergese....

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HI everyone,
I posted this in the love and dating section yesterday and somebody suggested I post it here. I may be talking about my husband not son (although his son is definitely AS as well) but since communication issues are, I would assume, universal, I thought I'd take the advice. Hope that's ok?

So, here goes:

In response to a previous topic I posted someone said the following:

For some reason, NTs statements use to be very 'flexible'. They're full of excuses, small lies, exagerations, inaccuracies, self-deceptions, manipulative distorsions, half-truths, emotional statements, and so. The outcome is when a NT listens to something, he/she filters and reconstructs it trying to recreate the most likely reality behind those words, according to the NT's experience.

This was interesting as it closely echoes somethngn my husband often says to me as our very different ways of using language can cause serous problems. He can translate a lot of the time but we are going through a pretty bad patch at the moment and says he needs me to do more of the translation.

So, any advice any of you can give as to how I might bring my use of language (and my listening skills, come to that) closer to his, would be much appreciated.

Aspie communication is usually direct and does not include a lot of implicit language. There may or not be a use of idioms and figurative speech and is generally "what you hear is what you get."

I don't know your husband, so I may be telling you about things that he has no issues with in some cases. Apply what I say with caution.

The main thing is that sarcasm. irony and passive aggressive language may seem to be "game playing." Don't ask how you look in a particular outfit unless you are prepared to hear an honest answer. Don't say the opposite of what you mean in a sarcastic, ironic tone if he is not capable of sussing it out. Idioms may confuse him as may any non-literal speech. even if he knows basic things like what "raining cats and dogs" means he may not know less known expressions. He may also be poor at properly using slang.

He may say direct things that other people would coat with politer language or embed in something else to try to soften it. He may not mean what an NT would mean by being so blunt.

I would try to get him to tell you whenever you say something that he perceives as confusing so you can see what aspects of NT social speech he finds troubling. Then you can either avoid these things, or follow up with an interpretation that is more direct and literal.

First of all, you just coming here and posting this is an excellent sign that your marriage is healthy! Everybody goes through bad patches, but it's the willingness to negotiate and work through them that makes the difference between a good and bad marriage - so congratulations to both you and your spouse for coming up with a plan and following through on it. So, good for both of you!

What you are asking is a little challenging, because what I've discovered is that although my son THINKS there is only one way to approach language, HE is often not as specific as he thinks. Language, in itself, is pretty flexible. So from the AS perspective, they are using words in the only way that makes sense to them - but there isn't a 1:1 correspondence that we can just plug in until we sit down and figure it out.

However, I do have one bit of advice: politeness is probably your enemy. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying be rude - but you do need to be aware that social conventions and soft language are probably getting in the way of clear communication.

Let me give you an example: my husband and I are awful about knowing when to leave a party. Almost all the time, we are the last to leave, and after we go, we realize that our hosts are mildly annoyed because we didn't pick up on their cues that it was time to go. We tried to solve the problem by telling people "we have a hard time knowing when it's time to go, so when you are ready - just tell us. Please!"

NOBODY WILL DO THIS. Not even people who know we've got some social skills gaps and need some help. It goes against social conventions, and I think all our friends feel rude even though we've asked them for help. We finally decided to be the first to leave, or to pick an arbitrary time and go then - because we can't figure out the middle bit. I wish our friends would be OK with feeling rude, though...

Your husband may need this kind of support. Does that make sense?

Also, reading books by Aspies may help you. I recommend the Journal of Best Practices and Look Me In The Eye, just to get an idea of what it is like on the other side.

We do this all the time. It is even worse when no other families are there. Then we can't even use other people as a guide.

http://www.jamesmw.com/sixrules.htm

Here are some rules that might help.

Momsparky's comments about politeness are spot on.

Honestly the first step is to start practicing awareness around your own methods of communication. Can you actually identify how you are communicating something?

I find that most NTs rely too heavily on non-verbal communication. To them it doesn't really matter what WORDS they used but how they said it. In fact, I experience quite frequently people who say opposite things but think they agree with each other. Most NTs use cliches, catch phrases, metaphors, and buzzwords to convey an emotional state and have no idea what the words they said actually mean.

In more detail, the latest catch phrase, when used reminds you of the event that taught it. Maybe a movie, tv show, or other cultural event. That event to you has an emotional memory attached to it and when someone uses that phrase it sparks the emotional event. When NTs want to communicate a similar emotion they fall back on the catch phrase. It's like a Cliff's Notes of emotional communication, it gets the gist across without needing the work of the detail. The Aspie completely misses the emotional connection. He hears the words said, and frequently the words have nothing to do with the situation, only the memory of the event has meaning.

To communicate with an Aspie you have to drop the shortcuts. Say everything. Explain the progression of events that lead to your emotion and what you desire. This will probably make you feel more exposed and vulnerable to speak like this. You are conditioned to the secret code that lets you communicate without actually saying it. Aspies are asking you to actually say it.

LOL, I thought it was just us! At this point, we have annoyed so many people that we don't get invited out much - which sounds awful but in reality we hate it, so it works out for us.

Your six rules are pretty interesting, BTDT - I didn't read all the in-between stuff, but I'd say they are a good start.

I would add a few things - for instance, avoiding figurative language whenever possible, and avoiding sarcasm in serious discussions. Even though my son knows what I mean, he sometimes gets "stuck" on the literal meaning and has a hard time setting it aside. So, for instance, if I want him to do something right away, I would not say "Are you ever planning to get to what I asked you to do?" To DS, that's not a question that makes sense at all, and he might either not respond at all, or might respond "yes" or "no," which isn't the response I was looking for. What I mean is either "When are you planning to do what I asked?" or more likely "I need you to stop what you are doing and do what I asked right now," and it's helpful to him if I phrase it that way.

DS also sometimes gets "stuck" thinking about the words used in figurative language: if you say "raining cats and dogs" he immediately pictures dogs and cats falling out of the sky even though he knows that you mean a very hard rain. Sometimes, with repeated use, this will stop happening - but there is sometimes a pause in the conversation where he has to clear the thought out of his head.

Someone on this forum once suggested that you communicate with as Aspie using the "air traffic controller" method of communication. Sorry I can't remember who that was or I would give you credit. Anyway, air traffic controllers don't use a lot of frilly language or soft pedal their directions, they say what they need to say in as few words as possible and they don't get emotional about it. That bit of advice was directed at a parent for talking to a kid but perhaps it applies here. It is a piece of advice that has stuck with me since I heard it and I try to apply it with both my DS and my DH (both on the spectrum).

Yes, I have found this - I start to get my head around how i have to speak, take him literally only to find he's used to wrong word. He had a problem a while back because "nobody every clears the worksurface" well the worksurface wasn't that bad but he had a point, it was a bit cluttered so I cleared it - but he was still upset. Reason being, he'd mean "draining boards" not "worksurface"!

I do sometimes question if something doesn't seem right but of course if it's the wrong time that also causes a problem because he "says what he means"

Of course it's not just about me getting my head around his way of speaking but also about keeping calm when it goes wrong. I have a habit of going into panic mode and getting over emotional which REALLY doesn't help . I am working on this one but again, any advice gratefully recieved....

I would like to comment that, as an aspie.

Irony is not 'prohibited'. Indeed (for example) I like it a lot. But it has to be a way to have an interesting and clever (and so, not-boring) conversation. The problem comes when it is used as a weapon.

In my case, for example (again), I can't understand why somebody who says that loves you can try to hurt you on purpose. It just makes no sense to me, no matter who much I could try to undersand it. It's just illogical. So when somebody uses irony in a hurtful way something inside of me labels that person as 'enemy'.

Of course, you learn to be patient, and to accept people even if they do things that make no sense. It takes time, though finally you get it. But even then, it keeps being annoying.

I know what you are saying, Greb. I should have made the distinction, although depending on her husband, he might prefer absolute directness without any irony even in circumstances that are not actually as you describe.

Hey there. One perspective you might consider taking is one I love about having an Aspergers kid. That's you can be direct and not sugar coat your conversations.

You can say what's on your mind! Imagine the possibilities. Where I could never tell my wife "What you are wearing doesn't look good. Wear this." You can. No muss, no fuss, no worrying about her getting even with me in some way. You don't need to beat around the bush or use easy to digest language like you do with the rest of us. Just be clear.

For me, being able to be honest and direct is one of the best aspects of having an Aspergers person in my life.

Don't say, "My cell phone is almost out of credit."
Say, "Will you please pick me up a phone card when you're out today?"
Tell me what you want, and when you want it. Otherwise, you are not getting a phone card.
(This is what I tell my NT husband).

It's really hard for me to write this being an aspie who's used to trying to figure out how to talk to NTs. The most important thing for you to know it that it's important to be extremely explicit & literal in everything you say. I looked around briefly and found a short guide for NTs to communicating with aspies. You can read it here: http://aspergerssearch.wordpress.com/20 ... -syndrome/

I hope this helps. It looks like you've recieved plenty of hlp already though. I especially liked some of the things ASDMommyASDKid had to say.

Hi, great advice so far. I find the most useful thing is remembering to be clear and direct, no sugar coating. Also remembering that that is how he speaks to me, no sugar coating LOL. One thing that helps is if he's upset/sad/angry instead of saying "why are you upset/sad/angry?" I'll ask "what's making you upset/sad/angry?"

If you are new to this, you can start by listening to yourself and your NT friends and becoming aware of how and when you use "secret codes" to communicate. Any time you drop hints, dance around a topic, exaggerate, use sarcasm, or otherwise say something other than what you mean (tone of voice, etc.) that is a secret code to an Aspie.

This may not apply to you husband since he's an adult, but I find with my son that certain words seem to resonate more than others. Specifically, words he uses frequently in his own speech. For example, at school they are learning how to describe something, they are being descriptive. So if I want more detail or information about something, i will ask him to be more descriptive.

Good luck,

Sometimes for both NT and AS people, it can be difficult to know exactly what bothered you. If your husband is making little social mistakes all over the place, it's possible that you may be affected by things, and not realize it. Then you yell at him over eating all the ice cream, or some other little thing. The problem is, as a literal thinker, he may stop there, and assume you're really mad about ice cream. It's important to bring in other people, like close friends or a therapist, to bounce things off of, so they notice when you're making relationship and communication mistakes that you aren't even picking up on. I think the same goes for your husband. Communication and self-reflection are so important in a relationship, and when your partner can't always be a great mirror for you, you may need to supplement them with others.