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Raptor
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19 May 2013, 1:27 am

Shatbat wrote:
This is not really about communism; there is no doubt atrocious crimes have been commited on it's name, and I'm sure there has been communist backed genocide and terrorism in the world. But one wrong doesn't justify another, and I'm also pretty sure there has been US backed genocide and even terrorism around the world.

Also, the person whose eggs get cracked and the person who gets the omelette are not always the same one.


You can fight fire with fire and that's what this is.
Really, how much more explanation does it require?


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xenon13
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19 May 2013, 1:58 am

The fight to maintain a brutal tyranny in Guatemala in the name of anti-communism though motivated by a desire for a handful of people to take everything and rule over the others to the point of slavery was one motivated by total evil.



Raptor
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19 May 2013, 2:18 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_terrorism


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ruveyn
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19 May 2013, 7:48 am

Raptor wrote:


There is a notice on top of this wiki entry. The neutrality of this article is disputed.


Except for North Korea and Cuba where are the communists these days? Even China is no longer "red".

ruveyn



xenon13
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19 May 2013, 10:37 am

Elliott Abrams did try making intellectual justifications for maintaining brutal oligarchies in Central America by force by speaking of the need to maintain "traditional societies" and their "traditional poverty" and that this was a good cause. The USA really is the leading factor of backwardness in the world. Look what they have done in the Middle East with their alliance with Waha'abbi Sa'udi Arabia.



Raptor
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19 May 2013, 11:48 am

ruveyn wrote:
Raptor wrote:


There is a notice on top of this wiki entry. The neutrality of this article is disputed.


Except for North Korea and Cuba where are the communists these days? Even China is no longer "red".

ruveyn


Yeah, well I think the handiwork of Communism's red terror is well enough known around the world with or without that article.


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Shatbat
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19 May 2013, 12:04 pm

Again... communism did horrible things, yes. Fighting fire with fire as you say, and tolerating and funding and supporting genocide and mass murder against genocide and mass murder is justifiable (but have those crimes been committed against the USA?) would make the second country go down to the same level as the first, assuming it was in a higher level on the first place.
The thing is, in many cases the war against communism was an excuse to make US citizens feel better, while the real motivations were economical or political, and the US intervened against countries who had done nothing against the USA besides, in an example, daring to ask US multinationals to *gasp* pay taxes and give fair wages to their workers. During the XX century, the USA government was very proactive at backing US multinationals with their military, and countries had to either comply or risk getting intervened.
And to talk a bit about communism, as there were some cases where the US intervened because a country had democratically elected a president with communist tendencies, did they have the right to do that, and put in power US friendly brutal dictatorships instead?


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Raptor
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19 May 2013, 12:15 pm

/\ /\ /\
Yes, your right. We Americans are horrible for ever wanting to keep those wonderful communists at bay.
Shame on us. :oops:


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19 May 2013, 12:26 pm

Communists stick in Raptor's craw :lol:


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19 May 2013, 12:40 pm

As schneekugel said some time ago, it is not about "you Americans" but about actions taken by your government. Could a socialist system have worked in those countries? We'll never know. But we do know the atrocities that capitalistic dictators committed in those countries with US support, dictators that the US government put there in the first place, and yes, I believe your government was horrible for doing that. Also, there is such a thing as a right for self-determination, which the US failed to respect.

And what about the first case, where communism was not involved but economic interests were?


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1000Knives
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19 May 2013, 1:56 pm

Raptor wrote:
/\ /\ /\
Yes, your right. We Americans are horrible for ever wanting to keep those wonderful communists at bay.
Shame on us. :oops:


Yeah man, kill a million or so people in Vietnam to keep the communism that inevitably came at bay.

And we wonder why the world is mad at us? We're just our own USSR with a less crappy economic system and better luck and location (ie, we can't really be invaded in any way except for a naval invasion.)



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19 May 2013, 2:04 pm

1000Knives wrote:
Raptor wrote:
/\ /\ /\
Yes, your right. We Americans are horrible for ever wanting to keep those wonderful communists at bay.
Shame on us. :oops:


Yeah man, kill a million or so people in Vietnam to keep the communism that inevitably came at bay.

And we wonder why the world is mad at us? We're just our own USSR with a less crappy economic system and better luck and location (ie, we can't really be invaded in any way except for a naval invasion.)


We are so hated that millions risk injury, hardship and death to come here.

ruveyn



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19 May 2013, 2:19 pm

1000Knives wrote:
Raptor wrote:
/\ /\ /\
Yes, your right. We Americans are horrible for ever wanting to keep those wonderful communists at bay.
Shame on us. :oops:


Yeah man, kill a million or so people in Vietnam to keep the communism that inevitably came at bay.

Thank those timid limp-wrists in Washington for that, especially that idiot Johnson.

Quote:
And we wonder why the world is mad at us?

Actually, I don't care.

Quote:
We're just our own USSR with a less crappy economic system and better luck and location (ie, we can't really be invaded in any way except for a naval invasion.)

For starters, if this were the USSR you'd be in a Gulag or dead for expressing your views.


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ruveyn
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19 May 2013, 2:41 pm

Fnord wrote:
^ What do either one contribute to the global economy?


Very little.

ruveyn



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19 May 2013, 5:04 pm

Image


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19 May 2013, 5:22 pm

/\ /\ /\
It's a start. :D


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