Judge Blocks Woman From Living With Lesbian Partner

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Schneekugel
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23 May 2013, 5:10 am

eric76 wrote:
Schneekugel wrote:
eric76 wrote:
If you were the other parent, you would likely prefer such clauses. Why would anyone want their kids growing up in a party house with strange people in and out on a regular basis?


So if I divorce from my partner, and dare to live a normal life, which includes meeting other possible partners again, instead of becoming a nun and sterilzing myself so I can live in purity until I die, my house becomes a partyhouse?


It gets pretty damned close to one if there is a revolving door of "possible partners" coming in and leaving.

There is nothing in the clauses prohibiting marriage. Nor is there anything in the that prohibits dating. What they accomplish is to limit the chances of a long succession of one night stands.


Wow, so I am allowed to dating outside the house, which isnt really possible when having children at home, and I am allowed to marry. But how the f**k am I going to marry, if I am not allowed to live with someone in a partnership for some time, so I can now if I want to marry someone? I mean dating someone for some hours a week, doesnt really tell you if someone fits as a partner for marriage. So I am allowed to marry, but not allowed to live with a partner for some time to know if he fits for marriage. Great. Or I simply leave the children alone at home and live my partner in his flat or house? Or we simply buy an additional flat or house, so that the children can live in the first one and get visited by me, and I can live with the new possible partner in the second one, to find out if he fits for marriage or not.

I mean would you marry a partner, you only know from dating? O_o



Jono
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23 May 2013, 5:10 am

eric76 wrote:
Schneekugel wrote:
eric76 wrote:
If you were the other parent, you would likely prefer such clauses. Why would anyone want their kids growing up in a party house with strange people in and out on a regular basis?


So if I divorce from my partner, and dare to live a normal life, which includes meeting other possible partners again, instead of becoming a nun and sterilzing myself so I can live in purity until I die, my house becomes a partyhouse?


It gets pretty damned close to one if there is a revolving door of "possible partners" coming in and leaving.

There is nothing in the clauses prohibiting marriage. Nor is there anything in the that prohibits dating. What they accomplish is to limit the chances of a long succession of one night stands.


No, it says that a parent can't have a live in romantic partner, emphasis mine. There is also a difference between an unmarried couple living together and having one night stands every night. People who you have one night stands with, generally don't live with you.



Schneekugel
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23 May 2013, 5:12 am

Greb wrote:

There's a huge distance between bringing a new fling home every weekend and not sleeping together until marriage.


Yeah, for example: "Bringing a possible partner at home, after meeting him for sometime, to live together in partnership, to know if it really works and fits for marriage or not." Oh, but thats forbidden, according to the law Sorry, you are wrong, according to the law we discuss, there isnt a huge distance. According to the law, I would not be allowed to do so.



eric76
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23 May 2013, 5:13 am

Jono wrote:
eric76 wrote:
Jono wrote:
eric76 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
eric76 wrote:
If you were the other parent, you would likely prefer such clauses. Why would anyone want their kids growing up in a party house with strange people in and out on a regular basis?


So divorced parents should remain single until the kids are grown up? A party house with people coming and going is not the same as two people in a relationship.


Trying to put words in my mouth? Attempting to create a strawman argument?

Did I ever say that they should remain single?


I'm sorry but perhaps I misunderstood your bolded quote above. You said that, and I quote, "If you were the other parent, you would likely prefer such clauses". Saying that you would prefer the other parent to not live with a romantic partner, even if the kids are living in the same house as them, is tantamount to saying that you would prefer them to remain single.


I seriously doubt that the clauses rule out marriage.


Only allowing it if they're married is completely arbitrary. An unmarried couple living in the same house is no different from a married couple. Also just to add to that, the couple spoken about in the article is a homosexual couple and from what I understand, homosexual marriages aren't recognised in that state.


They are quite different. A married couple has made a commitment for the long term. A couple merely living together has made no such commitment.

I think that kids need is a safe and dependable home environment and I don't see them as getting that when their single parent is bringing home temporary partners on a regular basis.

Then they can work toward legalizing gay marriage.



neilson_wheels
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23 May 2013, 5:20 am

Hello, I would like to try and offer a balance here from personal experience.
Following a recent marriage separation with two young children involved.
The parents have agreed equal custody, 1 whole week per parent.
One of the parents has now finished with their second live in partner in less than 18 months.
If anyone suggests that this has not affected the children then I can guarantee that this is not true.



eric76
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23 May 2013, 5:23 am

Jono wrote:
eric76 wrote:
Schneekugel wrote:
eric76 wrote:
If you were the other parent, you would likely prefer such clauses. Why would anyone want their kids growing up in a party house with strange people in and out on a regular basis?


So if I divorce from my partner, and dare to live a normal life, which includes meeting other possible partners again, instead of becoming a nun and sterilzing myself so I can live in purity until I die, my house becomes a partyhouse?


It gets pretty damned close to one if there is a revolving door of "possible partners" coming in and leaving.

There is nothing in the clauses prohibiting marriage. Nor is there anything in the that prohibits dating. What they accomplish is to limit the chances of a long succession of one night stands.


No, it says that a parent can't have a live in romantic partner, emphasis mine. There is also a difference between an unmarried couple living together and having one night stands every night. People who you have one night stands with, generally don't live with you.


From the original article:
Quote:
The clause is common in divorce cases in Texas and other states. It prevents a divorced parent from having a romantic partner spend the night while children are in the home.


"Romantic partner" includes and and all one night stands from spending the night. One version I saw (maybe in the article) gave a time of something like 9 pm by which any such "visitors" had to be gone.



eric76
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23 May 2013, 5:30 am

By the way, regarding gay marriages, my opinion is that marriage is primarily a religious institution in nature and it should be left up to the individual churches to decide whether or not they wish to marry same sex couples.

But this case is in Texas and the "Defense of Marriage Act" passed by large margins not long ago. I seriously doubt that we are going t see gay marriages in Texas in the near future.



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23 May 2013, 6:21 am

eric76 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
eric76 wrote:
If you were the other parent, you would likely prefer such clauses. Why would anyone want their kids growing up in a party house with strange people in and out on a regular basis?


So divorced parents should remain single until the kids are grown up? A party house with people coming and going is not the same as two people in a relationship.


Trying to put words in my mouth? Attempting to create a strawman argument?

Did I ever say that they should remain single?


People generally live together for a time before they marry. If they can't do that, they are either single or in a relationship but not living together.
If I were the kid I probably wouldn't like it, but the parents have to be able to move on.



eric76
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23 May 2013, 6:25 am

trollcatman wrote:
eric76 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
eric76 wrote:
If you were the other parent, you would likely prefer such clauses. Why would anyone want their kids growing up in a party house with strange people in and out on a regular basis?


So divorced parents should remain single until the kids are grown up? A party house with people coming and going is not the same as two people in a relationship.


Trying to put words in my mouth? Attempting to create a strawman argument?

Did I ever say that they should remain single?


People generally live together for a time before they marry. If they can't do that, they are either single or in a relationship but not living together.
If I were the kid I probably wouldn't like it, but the parents have to be able to move on.


Where do you live? There are plenty of people here who never live together before marriage. Many others may live together for a while but not all that long before marriage.

In any event, the kids take priority. If the so-called parent doesn't understand that, then they should never have had kids to start with.



Greb
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23 May 2013, 6:31 am

eric76 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
eric76 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
eric76 wrote:
If you were the other parent, you would likely prefer such clauses. Why would anyone want their kids growing up in a party house with strange people in and out on a regular basis?


So divorced parents should remain single until the kids are grown up? A party house with people coming and going is not the same as two people in a relationship.


Trying to put words in my mouth? Attempting to create a strawman argument?

Did I ever say that they should remain single?


People generally live together for a time before they marry. If they can't do that, they are either single or in a relationship but not living together.
If I were the kid I probably wouldn't like it, but the parents have to be able to move on.


Where do you live? There are plenty of people here who never live together before marriage. Many others may live together for a while but not all that long before marriage.

In any event, the kids take priority. If the so-called parent doesn't understand that, then they should never have had kids to start with.


I'm not sure that blind marriages are the most possitive thing for kids.


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Schneekugel
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23 May 2013, 6:36 am

eric76 wrote:
Where do you live? There are plenty of people here who never live together before marriage. Many others may live together for a while but not all that long before marriage.


And you think this is responsible? Simple marrying another partner, when you dont even know if living together with that person works?

Quote:
In any event, the kids take priority. If the so-called parent doesn't understand that, then they should never have had kids to start with.


BECAUSE the kids have priority, parents shouldnt simply marry foreigners they dont really know yet. How responsible is it to marry a person, that you dont know yet, if he is able to live daily life together with your kids?

Specially when you have kids, you additionally need to know if family life with him works. If not, there is no marriage. So this is something you need to know before. There is no sense in marrying someone, and then he moves into the house and you realize that he is unable to live with your kids. If you have kids and you want to marry again, you need to know if that person goes well with the kids, and you only know that from doing so.



trollcatman
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23 May 2013, 6:59 am

eric76 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
eric76 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
eric76 wrote:
If you were the other parent, you would likely prefer such clauses. Why would anyone want their kids growing up in a party house with strange people in and out on a regular basis?


So divorced parents should remain single until the kids are grown up? A party house with people coming and going is not the same as two people in a relationship.


Trying to put words in my mouth? Attempting to create a strawman argument?

Did I ever say that they should remain single?


People generally live together for a time before they marry. If they can't do that, they are either single or in a relationship but not living together.
If I were the kid I probably wouldn't like it, but the parents have to be able to move on.


Where do you live? There are plenty of people here who never live together before marriage. Many others may live together for a while but not all that long before marriage.

In any event, the kids take priority. If the so-called parent doesn't understand that, then they should never have had kids to start with.


I live in the Netherlands. I don't know anybody from my generation who married before living together for a few years. I don't see why anyone would marry someone when they haven't tested whether they are compatible living together. And I think you need to be very sure you are compatible before having children.



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23 May 2013, 7:03 am

A couple of weeks or so ago, a local nurse around here left her child who was just under a year old in the care of her boyfriend while she went to work. Guess what happened? The boyfriend murdered the child.

From http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21838575/ns/health-childrens_health/t/children-higher-risk-nontraditional-homes/:

Quote:
Six-year-old Oscar Jimenez Jr. was beaten to death in California, then buried under fertilizer and cement. Two-year-old Devon Shackleford was drowned in an Arizona swimming pool. Jayden Cangro, also 2, died after being thrown across a room in Utah.

In each case, as in many others every year, the alleged or convicted perpetrator had been the boyfriend of the child's mother — men thrust into father-like roles which they tragically failed to embrace.

Every family is different. Some single mothers bring men into their lives who lovingly help raise children when the biological father is gone for good.

Nonetheless, many scholars and social workers who monitor America's families see the abusive-boyfriend syndrome as part of a broader, deeply worrisome trend. They note an ever-increasing share of America's children grow up in homes without both biological parents, and say the risk of child abuse is markedly higher in the nontraditional family structures.

“This is the dark underbelly of cohabitation,” said Brad Wilcox, a University of Virginia sociologist. “Cohabitation has become quite common, and most people think, 'What's the harm?' The harm is we're increasing a pattern of relationships that's not good for children.''

...

* Children living in households with unrelated adults are nearly 50 times as likely to die of inflicted injuries as children living with two biological parents, according to a study of Missouri data published in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2005.

* Children living in stepfamilies or with single parents are at higher risk of physical or sexual assault than children living with two biological or adoptive parents, according to several studies co-authored by David Finkelhor, director of the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center.

* Girls whose parents divorce face significantly higher risk of sexual assault, whether they live with their mother or father, according to research by Robin Wilson, a family law professor at Washington and Lee University.

...

Census data makes clear that family patterns have changed dramatically in recent decades as cohabitation and single-parenthood became common. Thirty years ago, nearly 80 percent of America's children lived with both parents. Now, only two-thirds of them do. Of all families with children, nearly 29 percent are now one-parent families, up from 17 percent in 1977.

No biological connection

The net result is a sharp increase in households with a statistically greater potential for instability, along with the likelihood that adults and children will reside in them who have no biological connection.

“I've seen many cases of physical and sexual abuse that come up with boyfriends, stepparents,” said Eliana Gil, clinical director for the national abuse-prevention group Child help.

“It comes down to the fact they don't have a relationship established with these kids,” she said. “Their primary interest is really the adult partner, and they may find themselves more irritated when there's a problem with the children.''

...

The slaying of toddler Devon Shackleford was premeditated. Derek Chappell, who was sentenced to death this month, considered Devon an obstacle to an on-again, off-again relationship with the boy's mother, and drowned him in an apartment complex swimming pool in Mesa, Ariz.


From http://hdnews.net/society/community/caprez052013:
Quote:
The greatest risk for children in cohabitation households is couples breaking up. For cohabiting couples, the rate of splitting up is 75 percent, before the children reach 16. In marriage, the rate of separation or divorce by the time the children are 16 is one-third.

Another trend in cohabitation impacting children is only 44 percent of cohabiting mothers eventually marry the fathers of their children. The majority of children in cohabiting households were not born to the couples with whom they reside. The children are from previous unions, generally former relationships of the mothers. Thus, the males in the cohabiting households are usually stepfathers or boyfriends.

Child abuse is a significant social problem. Studies looking at abuse prevention have found stepparents show much higher levels of abuse both in married and unmarried households. Boyfriends also are more likely to be abusive whether they cohabit with or date mothers.

A study in Great Britain examined the relationship between child abuse, family structure and the parental marital background. Children who live with cohabiting biological parents were 20 times more likely to be abused than children living with married biological parents. Children living in cohabiting households with a mother and a boyfriend not the father have a 33 times higher risk of abuse than children in intact families. The risk of abuse for children is only 14 times as great for single mothers living alone than for intact families. Unfortunately, the majority of cohabiting mothers with children live with someone who is not the biological father.


From http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/1997/05/bg1115-the-child-abuse-crisis:
Quote:
Cohabitation, an increasingly common phenomenon, is a major factor in child abuse. Cohabitation implies a lack of commitment. The evidence suggests that a lack of commitment between biological parents is dangerous for children, and that a lack of commitment between mother and boyfriend is exceedingly so. The risk of child abuse is 20 times higher than in traditional married families if parents are cohabiting (as in "common law" marriages) and 33 times higher if the single mother is cohabiting with a boyfriend



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23 May 2013, 7:15 am

^^^ And? Some kids die because the father kill him, some others can die because a boyfriend, some others in a traffic accident, some others are raped by a nanny, some other are raped by priests. What we do, do we forbid each and everyone of those things?


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eric76
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23 May 2013, 7:18 am

Greb wrote:
^^^ And? Some kids die because the father kill him, some others can die because a boyfriend, some others in a traffic accident, some others are raped by a nanny, some other are raped by priests. What we do, do we forbid each and everyone of those things?


You must have missed this:
Quote:
Children who live with cohabiting biological parents were 20 times more likely to be abused than children living with married biological parents. Children living in cohabiting households with a mother and a boyfriend not the father have a 33 times higher risk of abuse than children in intact families. The risk of abuse for children is only 14 times as great for single mothers living alone than for intact families.



Schneekugel
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23 May 2013, 7:18 am

eric76 wrote:
A couple of weeks or so ago, a local nurse around here left her child who was just under a year old in the care of her boyfriend while she went to work. Guess what happened? The boyfriend murdered the child.


And if she was legally married to him, Jesus himself would have appeared and defended the child?

Thats exactly what I mean with, you need to know if a person is able to take care of a child and cant simply marry him. If you have a partner and you see that he isnt able to handle it, you simply throw him out and it is done. If you are already married, you cant do so. So if your partner (married or not) kills the child, you cant change anything anymore, but in any other case of violance or abuse, as long as you are not married, you simply can call the police and tell them to throw the person out and forbid him/her to ever enter your ground again. Done in a minute.

When you are married its much harder, because then the person has a right to live there, so you need evidence and proof if you want to legally throw him out of the house. If its not about broken bones or anything, but simply an dumb idiot that is as example not able to act with kids without physical or psychical violance, that leaves no traces, the only chance you have to protect the kids is moving out with them, and if you cant afford another home you live on the streets.

Married men and women sadly kill children too. And there is nothing you can do afterwards. But in every other case, its better to know before marrying that someone is violent idiot and simply to throw him out, instead of marrying him and then need 2 years to legally throw him out.