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Pageognat
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09 Oct 2013, 12:20 pm

I was raised Catholic until I left when I was 13ish. I've been agnostic since then. I'm currently infatuated with a Muslim woman from Palestine. I've read that Muslim women aren't allowed to marry non-Muslim men. A friend of my friend has a Muslim mom and a Catholic dad. How enforced is that rule?

If she ends up wanting me to join, what experiences have you other Aspies had with Islam? The main reason I left Christianity was because of its view of "faith." I'm willing to be faithful to an authority (believe what it says without wanting conclusive proof) if it's been proven right in the past. Christianity wanted me to unquestioningly believe everything in the Bible just because it was the almighty Bible. I found it self-righteous and hypocritical. Does Islam have any equivalent? I read an online article from another Aspie that says Islam is more encouraging of questions and can adequately answer them (the answer to any question to a Catholic seems to be "have faith and stop asking questions").


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knowbody15
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09 Oct 2013, 2:40 pm

Putting an analysis of Islam or anything else aside, if you're genuinely interested, talk to other Muslims....why not tell the girl that you're interested in Islam, maybe that interest will bring you guys closer.


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09 Oct 2013, 3:10 pm

Ive a feeling that if you become a Muslim, they will chop off the end of your nob.



Cei
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09 Oct 2013, 4:08 pm

Pageognat wrote:
I was raised Catholic until I left when I was 13ish. I've been agnostic since then. I'm currently infatuated with a Muslim woman from Palestine. I've read that Muslim women aren't allowed to marry non-Muslim men. A friend of my friend has a Muslim mom and a Catholic dad. How enforced is that rule?

If she ends up wanting me to join, what experiences have you other Aspies had with Islam? The main reason I left Christianity was because of its view of "faith." I'm willing to be faithful to an authority (believe what it says without wanting conclusive proof) if it's been proven right in the past. Christianity wanted me to unquestioningly believe everything in the Bible just because it was the almighty Bible. I found it self-righteous and hypocritical. Does Islam have any equivalent? I read an online article from another Aspie that says Islam is more encouraging of questions and can adequately answer them (the answer to any question to a Catholic seems to be "have faith and stop asking questions").


Enforced how? Her family would probably object strongly to her marrying you at the least. I think people ignore it more than some rules, but it's still a definite obstacle.

Muslims are expected to believe everything in the Qur'an (the hadith less so but to some extent), but not necessarily literally. No one's ever jumped down my throat for ignoring standard interpretations or questioning whether something is still relevant. I mean, if you ask someone who's enough of a fundamentalist you'll probably still be told to stop asking questions and just have faith, but it's not that common in my experience. From what I've seen, most Muslims are pretty sure that sincerely trying to understand things will always point you in the right direction, even if you start by asking questions that are disapproved of. And there's certainly a lot less objection to thinking logically about anything else. The natural world is considered to be an indication of God's existence, instead of all this "science is the devil" nonsense.

"And within the land are neighboring plots and gardens of grapevines and crops and palm trees, [growing] several from a root or otherwise, watered with one water; but We make some of them exceed others in [quality of] fruit. Indeed in that are signs for a people who reason. (13:4)"



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09 Oct 2013, 4:28 pm

Cei wrote:
"And within the land are neighboring plots and gardens of grapevines and crops and palm trees, [growing] several from a root or otherwise, watered with one water; but We make some of them exceed others in [quality of] fruit. Indeed in that are signs for a people who reason. (13:4)"

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39


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09 Oct 2013, 5:49 pm

I would consider all the relevant points, from multiple viewpoints before I would jump into some religion like that. It is your life, just be informed about it.



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09 Oct 2013, 7:14 pm

I used to have a girlfriend from a muslim background. I learnt a lot about it, its a very strict religion, thats why I couldn't join. Some useful information about Islam for men considering converting-

* If you convert, you will probably be encouraged to adopt a new Arabic, Islamic name.

* No premarital sex. However I suspect polygamy is allowed.

* Shaving is strongly discouraged in Islam. You will probably be shunned if you don't grow a beard. Muslims believe that if the body grows it, God put it there for a reason. With the exception of foreskins.

* Only women are allowed to wear gold jewelry. Men can only wear fake gold.

* Alcohol, and recreational drugs with the exception of tobacco are prohibited.

* Music with the exception of songs with percussion instruments is prohibited.

* You are encouraged to donate 2.5% of your worldly income to good causes.

* You will have to observe halal food rules.

* You are expected to pray towards mecca, five times a day.

* You cannot create any image, artwork or sculpture of a living thing, with a face and eyes. Muslims believe that anyone who does this will be shown the image or sculpture upon their judgement and asked to give life to it. Those who can't are sent to hell for blasphemy for 'pretending to be a god'.

This is the reason why geometric patterns feature quite heavily in Islamic art, as they are terrified of creating something that could be interpreted as a living being.


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Cei
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10 Oct 2013, 1:34 am

thomas81 wrote:
I used to have a girlfriend from a muslim background. I learnt a lot about it, its a very strict religion, thats why I couldn't join. Some useful information about Islam for men considering converting-

More lenient interpretations of many of these rules are quite common, at least in America. My clarifications may not be exactly what you're looking for, though, since I pay relatively little attention to people's expectations and idk how much you wanna know what people will disapprove of and how much you wanna know what's actually required.

thomas81 wrote:
* If you convert, you will probably be encouraged to adopt a new Arabic, Islamic name.

In my personal opinion, nothing more, this is in most cases stupid, unreasonable, possibly racist, harmful, and not strongly based in Islam. The only occasions when the Prophet advised or required someone to change their name, it was because the meaning was in some way negative, for a variety of reasons such as being either excessively complimentary/presumptuous or degrading, or indicating that someone belonged to another religion. Islam is not restricted to Arabs and imitators of Arabs, and I dislike the custom of changing perfectly acceptable names precisely because it confuses people this way. Plus, someone converting to a new religion has enough to get used to or change without being required to change even what they call themselves.

Anyway, it's certainly not required, or even ideal imo, as a default.

thomas81 wrote:
* No premarital sex. However I suspect polygamy is allowed.

Agreed, no argument here.

thomas81 wrote:
* Shaving is strongly discouraged in Islam. You will probably be shunned if you don't grow a beard. Muslims believe that if the body grows it, God put it there for a reason. With the exception of foreskins.

Basically correct, although technically wrong about some details. That said, ideal Islamic personal hygiene is a really minor thing so I'm not gonna bother listing exceptions unless you're actually concerned about it.

thomas81 wrote:
* Only women are allowed to wear gold jewelry. Men can only wear fake gold.

* Alcohol, and recreational drugs with the exception of tobacco are prohibited.

Both true, smoking is discouraged though. Although it's discouraged generally anyway, so meh.

thomas81 wrote:
* Music with the exception of songs with percussion instruments is prohibited.

Many people don't think this applies within modern cultures, and was because of music being associated with pagan stuff. Some fundamentalists are more strict about it, but you'll probably be in fine company if you're shunned for listening to music.

thomas81 wrote:
* You are encouraged to donate 2.5% of your worldly income to good causes.

This is actually required, although only if you have a certain amount of money, and I think it also might be not income but only money that hasn't been spent for an entire year. Don't quote me on this, though, I'm not an expert on zakat since I'm too dirt-poor to worry about it.

thomas81 wrote:
* You will have to observe halal food rules.

How strict these are varies by interpretation. The things to avoid are the same, but the requirement for animals being slaughtered properly is occasionally considered less important.

thomas81 wrote:
* You are expected to pray towards mecca, five times a day.

In Arabic btw, so it'll take a bit of learning.

thomas81 wrote:
* You cannot create any image, artwork or sculpture of a living thing, with a face and eyes. Muslims believe that anyone who does this will be shown the image or sculpture upon their judgement and asked to give life to it. Those who can't are sent to hell for blasphemy for 'pretending to be a god'.

This is the reason why geometric patterns feature quite heavily in Islamic art, as they are terrified of creating something that could be interpreted as a living being.

Another thing that's widely disregarded, the usual argument being that no one goes around worshipping paintings nowadays.



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13 Oct 2013, 4:38 am

Pageognat wrote:
I've read that Muslim women aren't allowed to marry non-Muslim men. A friend of my friend has a Muslim mom and a Catholic dad. How enforced is that rule?


Would depend on the country and the ethnic group and how devout the family is.

Quote:
If she ends up wanting me to join, what experiences have you other Aspies had with Islam?


I have no experience with joining with Islam, so I can not help you there :P. However I do recommend to read up about it. However a word of warning the Quran is not ordered in chronological order and is without context. To get that you also need the Hadith.

Quote:
The main reason I left Christianity was because of its view of "faith." I'm willing to be faithful to an authority (believe what it says without wanting conclusive proof) if it's been proven right in the past.


What do you mean with proven right in the past?

Quote:
Christianity wanted me to unquestioningly believe everything in the Bible just because it was the almighty Bible. I found it self-righteous and hypocritical. Does Islam have any equivalent?


You mean the Quran?

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I read an online article from another Aspie that says Islam is more encouraging of questions and can adequately answer them (the answer to any question to a Catholic seems to be "have faith and stop asking questions").


Sounds more like you have been talking to Catholics who did not have received any education in theology. Also may I ask for a link to said article.



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14 Oct 2013, 5:42 am

I could see AS's people being attracted to the sheer devotion Islam demands, and also against it for the very same reason.



Pageognat
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14 Oct 2013, 10:16 am

Thank you all for your replies. Unfortunately, my attempt at engaging her failed before I got to the religious part. I'm not going to look into Islam anymore.


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14 Oct 2013, 2:04 pm

Pageognat wrote:
Thank you all for your replies. Unfortunately, my attempt at engaging her failed before I got to the religious part. I'm not going to look into Islam anymore.


To be honest, you've saved yourself a load of headache.


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Pageognat
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16 Nov 2013, 2:42 pm

I'm pursuing her again. I stopped before because I asked her if she had a Facebook (she does) and she said no, and that seemed like a reason to stop. Then, a few weeks later, she came to the place I work at (I told her I worked there awhile before) and she said hi. that seemed like a reason to ignore whatever the Facebook thing might have meant and pursue her again. I think it's going well. We still haven't talked about religion yet. I might ask her out tomorrow.


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15 Dec 2013, 11:31 pm

Pageognat wrote:
I was raised Catholic until I left when I was 13ish. I've been agnostic since then. I'm currently infatuated with a Muslim woman from Palestine. I've read that Muslim women aren't allowed to marry non-Muslim men. A friend of my friend has a Muslim mom and a Catholic dad. How enforced is that rule?


It depends on the family. As with all things that concern culture, religion, gender and politics, tread carefully and if you disagree do so respectfully. I have friends who are practicing Muslims, the worst mistake I can imagine is that you would be indifferent to the things they value. I disagree with people on many things but you can get a level of respect just for being earnest but respectful.


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16 Dec 2013, 6:38 am

Islam, like most religions, is something of a spectrum, and people vary in what they practice. I imagine this is particularly the case in Western culture. I know many Muslims who listen to music (in fact I don't really know of any who don't), only pray twice a day, if that, shave, and even some who take alcohol and recreational drugs.

As for whether she'll even consider a relationship with you... I don't know about Arab or African (or Indonesian or...) Muslims, but Indians/Pakistanis/Bangladeshis have all kinds of cultural hang ups in addition to their religious ones. One of my friends has been told she can only marry within her ethnicity and caste, to a Hindu who speaks Gujarati. So there are all kinds of strange pressures that we can barely understand.



Pageognat
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16 Dec 2013, 11:31 am

Oh, she's not interested in me. Her talking to me was a false lead. I'm not trying for her anymore.


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