Clingy autistic friend

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So I have a friend with "severe" or "low functioning" autism. I dislike both those terms, because he isn't necessarily more severely affected than me, nor is he by any means "low functioning". He'll probably always need to live with a carer, he is very obviously autistic, he has low intelligence but has performed well at school with help (he scored the equivalent of CCE at A-Level, which wouldn't allow him to do an honours degree but is a great achievement for him) and is doing a higher education course in Animal Management, he makes inappropriate remarks, is socially oblivious, and so forth. I will call him Otto.

I am attending university, studying Biology at my local university. I didn't want to leave home. Most of my friends have left home and are studying in other towns and cities. Otto is one of my only friends still here, and equally, a lot of Otto's friends have moved away.

Otto is the only person who invites me to do things on anything like a regular basis. Whilst in some ways this is brilliant, in others it is irritating. I don't want to do stuff. I have my routine and I like to stick to it. I also find being with him for an extended period really tiresome. He is not good company. His conversation skills are seriously limited. I can tell that he has learned a lot of things by rote. We have the same conversations whenever we meet (he asks after each of my family members, then my dog, then asks if he should get a dog, whether an Alsation is a good first dog, why Harry Potter wasn't raised by Severus Snape...). He is slightly taller than me, and whenever we walk together he matches his stride rate to mine, not his speed, so he goes shooting off. He is liable to go missing, cross the road at a bad time, or insult a stranger (fortunately he is learning not to do this as he grows up).

In a lot of my relationships, I'm the clingy one. A lot of people can do just fine without my company, but I desire their company every few months or so. With Otto, the shoe is on the other foot.

Should I:
1) Suck it up- my other friends put up with my clinginess, I should put up with Otto's. He'd feel bad if I didn't spend time with him.
2) Be more selfish- make excuses more often so I don't have to be around Otto

I have previously tried honesty with Otto (particularly when he tries to arrange two things in one week) but he doesn't seem to understand that I find unsolicited human contact to be exhausting and undesired. So I can either make up excuses or go along with it.

Making up excuses may be your best bet. Unless he becomes better company, you will get more and more agitated with him until you either say something mean or shut him out completely without explanation. Lying is never an ideal option, but sometimes it's the one that causes the least pain to everyone.

Well I can relate to Otto. I mean I don't want to lose friends and have lost everything so far. But if you have to go because you feel uncomfortable, at least be honest about why, instead of making up excuses. Why try to act NT when neither of you are? Cut the BS with him.

I think you should make a firm schedule with Otto. Set a fixed limit for how many times a month you see him and also a fixed limit for how long each of those times will be. Currently he is setting the schedule (or so it seems in this post) and he is choosing outings that are too frequent and too long for you to tolerate. If things continue on this way you will eventually crack. Then you will either abandon him totally and feel wracked with guilt but also relief or you will suck it up and continue out of a sense of duty but also slowly but surely grow to actually dislike him.

Don't suck it up and continue on his schedule of frequent, lengthy outings. That will destroy the friendship and it will hurt you both.

Don't make up excuses to not go on various outings. He will find out. That will also hurt you both. There are countless threads on WP made by people who discovered that friend was making excuses to not be with them. These threads are full of a fury and contempt you want no part of.

Do make a schedule you can live with.For example; three outings per month, each at least a week apart, and each is no longer than 3 hours- whatever you are comfortable. You have your routine and you like to stick to it so make specifically limited time with Otto part of your routine. That way when he tries to schedule two outings in one week or spend 6 hours with you, you can honestly say that is not on your schedule and not do it. You said you have tried honesty with him before: explaining that unsolicited contact was undesired and exhausting. He didn't understand that but maybe he didn't understand specifically your point of view- a Theory of Mind problem. A schedule is concrete and requires no Theory of Mind so it should be much easier for him to understand. And even if he doesn't understand, you can stick to it anyway with no need for excuses. "We went out two days ago Otto- my schedule says the next outing can't be until next week" or something like that.

Like Janissy and Stalk, I think there are other options. Otto might feel sad or even hurt if you spend less time with him, but he might also be hurt if he knew that you made up excuses to avoid him.



If he doesn't understand the complicated explanation, maybe you could just go with a simple but still honest one like, "I don't have the energy to visit/go out with you today" or "I have other plans [whatever is in your routine]/I am busy" or even the simplest of all, "I don't feel like it/I don't want to."

If he responded with something like, "You don't like me" you could just tell him you do like him (unless you don't...in which case maybe it's not a good friendship for either of you) and reiterate your simple statement; My guess is he'd figure out that it's not about whether or not you want to be his friend over time, as you continued to socialize with him, albeit less often and for shorter periods.



It's okay to set limits on how much time you spend with him right from the start -- e.g. "I can only hang out for [however long --it doesn't have to be a single number either, but a guesstimate like "maybe 1/2 hour to an hour"]"...and to say, "I need to go now," when you need to go, and then leave (even if you haven't set a time limit on your socializing).

With the two options you give you make the relationship seem like a bad thing, a very toxic one. If it REALLY is that bad, perhaps he shouldn't be your friend. Personally, I wouldn't throw a relationship like this away though, having someone else who is definitely on the spectrum is useful get feedback from (though I personally don't interact with people as you describe Otto to be. Perhaps his feedback wouldn't be all that helpful.)

Honestly, I can't see how making up excuses would be good. Be frank with him, what you want, what you expect out of a friendship. Its a two way street. If its not mutually beneficial then there is no reason to be in one. Perhaps tell him that you want more alone time. Make your time with him shorter, and hopefully 'sweeter'. An overdose sounds very strenuous for you.

[quote=
Should I:
1) Suck it up- my other friends put up with my clinginess, I should put up with Otto's. He'd feel bad if I didn't spend time with him.
2) Be more selfish- make excuses more often so I don't have to be around Otto

I have previously tried honesty with Otto (particularly when he tries to arrange two things in one week) but he doesn't seem to understand that I find unsolicited human contact to be exhausting and undesired. So I can either make up excuses or go along with it.[/quote]

I don't not think either choice is going to be go for both of you. If you use excuses with people on the spectrum, they have a hard time reading those. It was hard for me to read when I was younger. Instead, I think it would be best for you to tell him that you feel like you do not think that you are a good fit anymore and that it would be best if you parted ways.

I had a friend who was clingy with me too and had a problem with calling me way too many times in one day if I did not pick up. I would also have an awful time talking to her on the phone because most of the conversations were the same like that. They also texted me non stop in the end and so I just cut it off with them.

Reading your posts is making me feel quite selfish. You talk about multiple meetings in a week and such. when actually Otto usually asks to meet once every 4-6 weeks or so. Usually my NT friends would invite me to do something maybe twice a year, or never (I recently left school so I'm still getting used to not seeing my friends by default every day- maybe in a year I'll say "we do two things every holiday" or something).

This is true. I know I certainly feel myself getting frustrated more and more around him, and I don't want to say something mean to him (he once caught me texting my mum so should would call me so I'd have an excuse to leave). But maybe it isn't the dichotomy I painted it to be originally.


He's basically spent his whole life being trained to be an NT. He fools nobody, but he has at least learned "social rules" in quite a rigid matter.
The reason NTs tell white lies is because they're often better in the truth. I don't think they're necessarily right all of the time, but here I think lying is justified.

Janissy and animalcrackers- your advice is good. I think, rather than setting limits on how often I see Otto, I'm going to say I only want to do things with 1-3 other people there. Talking to him one-on-one for even half an hour is tough- doing it for two hours, even if there is a structured activity, feels like it is destroying my day. Part of the problem is I think he's been trained to fill silences, whereas I relish them. To me, a quality friendship is one where you can sit in silence and still have a good time. With other people there, I would get short breaks when other people talk to him or when I talk to other people.

I do like him- he's a nice, friendly person who is nearly always smiling. I think most people don't appreciate that he's a person, they just find him amusing, and he mistakes that for friendship. If I insist on doing things only in small groups, then I also don't have to do things if he invites a group of phonies.

Reading this post makes me sad for Otto. The reason he does those things you don't like is because of his Autism. I am a caretaker for someone with very low functioning Autism. It's going to be hard for him to act differently so maybe it might help to lower your expectations of him. You seem like such a nice friend. Just try to think about how you feel around people who are NT and how you would want to be treated. I think treating him with compassion and allowing him to be himself is the best thing to do. Like you said, at least he accepts you for who you are and wants to be your friend. Try to focus more on the positive aspects of him. The person I work with says the same things to me over and over and I just answer his questions or respond with kindness. Sometimes I might ignore him if he gets too repetitive, but not often or I will say ok that's enough or try to redirect him. Change the subject, perhaps.

Maybe those times you need quiet you can either tell him or if he doesn't get it maybe make a game out of it (if he is into that) and say let's see who can be the quietest the longest. I am a teacher and I do that with my students all the time. Or sometimes there are quiet activities you could do together like watch a movie or read a book.

My only other suggestion would be to talk to someone close to him about the best way to approach him about this. But please don't end your friendship with him. You're probably one of the only friends he really trusts. Try not to do to him what everyone else on here complains others do to them and that is to reject him or give up on him. Time apart is one thing. Rejection is completely different and it doesn't seem like this warrants that.

Good luck. You seem like a very kind, gentle, and considerate person.

Do not feel selfish for needing to take care of yourself. If you are only comfortable meeting once every 4-6 weeks, that's okay. There is no "right" amount of times to hang out with someone, it is all based on what you are both comfortable with.

If I were in your situation, I would ask Otto why he likes being my friend and spending time with me. If the answer is "I like our conversations" then maybe you can just chat online for specified times or on the phone instead, and he would find this just as good as going out with you. If his answer is "I like leaving the house" then you can ask him to let you choose the activities, and choose ones that limit conversation. If he just says "I like you," then get more specific and ask why he likes you. Even if he can't answer perfectly, it may give you some insight into how he is thinking about you.

Basically, find out what he gets out of this relationship, and continue to give that to him in a way that fits better into your routine and desires.

in many respect I am like otto, so I appreciate the OP's struggles in figuring out what the right thing is to do.

I can relate to Otto. I am the clingy wannabe friend of an NT who used to invite me to do stuff with her(simple everyday things every now and then) and now doesn't. This hurts a lot. I have depression that was in remission but is coming back. I started having symptoms around the same time my "friend" stopped spending time with me. This has happened several times in the past to the point that I am considering giving up on friendships altogether.


Yes...this is a rant. But maybe it provides some insight into his feelings? Definitely try to find a compromise that works for both of you. If you have to end he friendship, tell him why. It is worse wondering what happened and being unable to figure it out, because then you don't know what to fix if you ever try again to make friends.

^^^
I will be your friend if you wish it.
I believe that if just about any of us aspies here found a friend of whatever persuasion, that we would NEVER abandon them!

Hm. There's something I've noticed several times before that I thought I'd bring up just to see what you guys think.

I'm an NT, but I have many friends with autism or asperger's. I have noticed that when we're talking online, the conversations are usually much more fluid and I get the sense that we're actually communicating without having to go through a bunch of rules I don't care about. But when hang out together in person they can barely talk to me. It starts to seem as though they expect me to be judging them very harshly, rather than the truth which is simply that I want to interact with them as who they really are. Personally I don't care about bluntness or social awkwardness but it can be rather difficult when the other person seems to expect you to hate them for every other word they say - that just isn't condusive to good conversations. Anyways, eventually the hang out secession ends and we're back to talking via the internet and everything just seems wonderful again. We can have an interesting conversation and we both feel happy about it. For this reason I have found that I occasionally hang out in person if only because I feel as if we'll both get more out of it if we just talk online. It isn't that I don't want to see them - it just also seems to be a somewhat painful experience.

I'd appreciate any feedback on this.

it has been my experience that as much as I try to censor myself, something inevitably slips out and causes offense to other aspies, and the alexithymic ones will get peeved at me via delayed reaction as well. in real time my censor doesn't work very well, but in writing I am afforded more time for it to work and keep me out of trouble. even then, however, I have written things that other people did not well take, and no matter how I tried to walk it back it hung like an albatross around my neck. I long ago got too tired to care about what people thought of me, so I just wear myself on my sleeves, so to speak, in that I will say [vetted by internal censor] what I think and if they like it fine, and if they don't well there is more than one fish in the sea.