why do some people consider low functioning inferior ?

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You just described a situation where each worker's skills were taken into account and they were placed according to those skills. If you can't see the difference between that and all disabled people are inferior, that certainly explains a lot.

Ps, the govt doesn't deem disabled people inferior - they give help to people starting businesses, buying homes, going to school, they give all kinds of help - since Obama took office I feel like I'm the only person in the country who hasn't gotten help (that's not a slam on Obama, there have just been a lot of natural disasters and job layoffs, etc).

Yes however it usually doesn't end up that way if it did end up this way it would be different. People often discriminate disabled people for jobs that they can do at the same level or even higher than another person just because they are disabled. A good example of this is When schools dont allow their children to be in honors program weather in a certain subject or Just in General on the disabled despite the fact that they would be able to handle that with accommodations or maybe even without accommodations at all and if they are capable at anything at all and they say they're not disabled and don't need accommodations or help.

Both of this happened to me whether intentional by the school district or not three times I was not excepted into programs that were considered honors or a different method of learning I don't know why it could be because of my disability or something else but luckily I am in the honors program now because I were retook the test. Also this school did not allow me to use a laptop as assistive technology because I was "smart/good grades" and they only gave it to people who needed for communication or are profound ( not even just severly) physically handicapped. When Little did they know I was only doing so well without at is because my grandmother and when my mom was around constantly helping me.

The third time was when I was almost put into a class of people who did not pass their class previously or maybe it was a special education class I don't really know if it had been a regular special-education class and not a class a behaviorally challenged kids I would've gone there but whatever they say they were putting me in advanced math when advanced really meant slow for some reason. And allow me to believe it was actually advanced into my teacher sent me straight.

Last edited by jenisautistic on 29 Dec 2013, 10:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

I've actually never said that a paraplegic, or any disabled person is always inferior, only inferior if all else is equal. People are the sum of their positive and negative qualities, and being disabled is a huge negative mark on a person's metaphorical score sheet. This hardly means a disabled or handicapped person cannot be valuable; Franklin Roosevelt was confined to a wheelchair for almost his entire presidency, yet he is considered to be arguably one of the greatest leaders in the history of the United States. Being handicapped is hardly a death sentence. But Roosevelt would have been just as great a president had he been able to walk fully. Being in a wheelchair gave him no advantages; Roosevelt succeeded in spite of his disability.

As for your second paragraph, I understand and share your concerns. Perceived superiority by those with power has led to the deaths of untold numbers of people. But this, in my opinion, is because of the human tendency to overgeneralize. For example, You almost never see someone killed because one individual felt superior to another individual. You see blacks getting lynched in the 1800's because white people honestly believed that being white made them inherently better than people who were black. They viewed blacks as inferior simply for being black, regardless of context. This kind of thinking puts people into boxes, like White/Christian=Good, Black/Pagan=Bad. Absolutely no room for nuance of any kind.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the words inferior and superior in this context; the extra connotation these words carry isn't really appropriate or helpful in this situation. Like littlebee has said, I'm only using the word 'inferior' because that's the topic of discussion. I would actually use the words 'better' and 'worse' instead. Being physically capable is better than being a paraplegic. I think we can all agree with that. And just because some people are 'better' or 'worse' than others doesn't mean that all humans don't deserve a minimum level of respect and consideration. All human being are sentient, conscious beings that can experience both pain and pleasure, and there is simply no reason to treat someone poorly because of their perceived inferiority.

I've mentioned this before, but a person's moral behaviors drive a great deal of a person's value, so much so that I'll take the kind, generous fast food worker over the hugely rich and successful as*hole. I think that, for most people, their biggest beef with the idea of judging others isn't necessarily the judging itself, but what exactly society seems to value. Monetary success and beauty seem massively overvalued, while being an honest, moral person is undervalued. A suave, handsome, hugely successful Fortune 500 CEO is, in my mind, still a lousy person if he has the sociopathic behavior so common to those kinds of positions.

As for your third paragraph, I see no reason why someone would say something like this in that kind of setting, other than to be cruel. I wouldn't give a low functioning autistic the job of answering the phone, because he simply doesn't have the skills necessary for that job. If questioned about this decision, I would never say I did so because the guy was autistic. I would say it was because he simply isn't capable of doing the job, and that would be a true statement. I don't see what the point would be of the kind of verbal abuse that you described, again, other than to be cruel. With that in mind, I have absolutely no issues with that kind of behavior being illegal.

Over and over again I've said that disabled people are inferior at whatever it is they're disabled from doing. what is it you don't get about this? Parapalegics are inferior at high jumping. Deaf people are inferior at singing. Autistics are typically inferior at functioning in the basics of life & social interactions. I have never once said that disabled people have no value or are worthless or anything of the sort. I've very plainly said that they're inferior relative to those who are superior at whatever it is that's being compared. Again, I ask, what is it you don't comprehend about this?

Peace out for now, my friend, this inferior at some things disabled guy is going to go have a workout & then head over to my inferior at some things disabled deaf friends' place to visit them and their 2 children, my youngest God daughter & her little brother. Seems like a superior way to spend my evening vs. the inferior choice of sitting around browsing Facebook and endlessly debating this nonsense with you.

As I tried to mention to you before this situation is impossible or maybe just very improbable everyone is different nobody will ever be exactly the same but for one thing. That's what you need to understand that what you're saying doesn't make sense. You are right sometimes I will be worse then someone in specific circumstances but I'm not talking about Specific situations. I'm talking about in general no one is in general Interior to anyone else I know that people like to think that way and try to boost their ego but that doesn't make it any less true. Actually I think this might have to do with autistic person seeing details and not the "big picture".

Jeni, sometime people can't sort out all the details about someone else because it is too confusing or time consuming, so they have to kind of take a person all in one bundle in that one context kind of laps over into another context where it might not apply. The person who does this may be disabled in the way he processes data in that the mental clarity is discolored by negative emotions and/or or sometimes the sorting of details is inaccurate. And it could be happening on both ends---the way they are evaluating you and/or the way you are evaluating them or evaluating the way they are evaluating you.

Inferior. It's a funny word. Ironically you could argue that people who use it earnestly are in a way inferior. More important that that they're just not worth listening to.

well, all of that sucks. Sounds like some rather rude discrimination going on, especially with the deceit about the math class.

I never had a diagnosis as a kid, so in Jr High (Gr 8, 9, 10) my twin brother and I were both in Honours Math, and he was also in Honours English. Obviously we were both high enough functioning not to singled out and labeled as "disabled," so I've never known any of the crap you've had to put up with.

I could just as easily argue that people who refuse to view and judge people honestly are inferior. I mean, if they really believe all people are equal, what other crazy ideas do they have?

It might be might be more productive to focus from this angle.

This is why I choose the example of a homeless person with lice. I thought that would be a good illustration of a simple point about context, but some people responded (reacted) on an emotional level. Emotions are a very important part of a human being and I am in no way trying to discount the value of being a feeling person, but when feeling does away with logic some very bad things can happen to people, The solution for me would not be to inviter this lice infested person into my home and give him a bath, though to someone else this might make sense and even be a life changing activity.. First of all, giving a bath does not delouse a person, and secondly I have already invited homeless people into my home and had some negative experiences with that.. It was also suggested I get to know this person. yeah, but I have better things to do, and I already know probably more homeless people than anyone writing on this thread, and I just made friends with a new one yesterday on New Year's day when I had to go to work, and spent almost an hour talking to him, shared my hot tea (with brandy:-) with him, listened to his story which I discovered by asking him many questions etc,.

You can sort out contextual situations with the emotions alone. It is not possible. If I see a homeless person or a disabled person it is not possible to sort out his particular situation by feeling compassion for such a person, though developing the mind of compassion will help people probably more than anything else.If a person who is suffering feels compassion or experiences generosity, it can inspire him to live, but, though we all probably have basic altruistic impulse, at least to some degree, the mind of (great) compassion functions in accordance with logic. They both work hand in hand in such a way that one does not override the other. You could say they function hand in hand, and we all should strive to develop such a capacity and help each other to do so; however, when people use logic to support their own grudges, feelings of low self worth (or grandiosity) and anger and various self-centered cravings, then this is not the mind of compassion, but rather a mind that is confused.

Yes it really does suck.I mean I don't even know what I can do about it if not just as a math class was advanced as they said it was because it wasn't even really a special ed class it was just for kids who have behavioral problem. This is the class my geometry class called the ret*d class despite the fact that none of those kids are ret*d and just had behavioral issues. Obviously if someone or the class was consisted of mentally ret*d kids or had some mentally retared kids and then I would defend them if they were using the term offensively or pepously condesending way I don't mind the term ret*d when used properly because in itself it's not really offensive but it could use in a certain way or with mocking or something similar. offensive just like hello or nice shirt can be either hurtful or helpful even I haven't been able to figure that out yet a lot of nts just say that. And I know what I'm talking about because I have been on the special-education bus since I was in preschool and me and someone else who was with me was on the bus we were called out from being on a ret*d and special ed bus special ed and ret*d being used in a condescending and mean-spirited way which was so obvious even I knew.


Not time management.Not ADHD not even self injury but flat out misbehavior. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a class for kids like these but it shouldn't affect the special ed program this is one of the reasons I haven't been able to be put in the special ed class but I realize that it's not always The way it's cut out. Well I have been in special ed on my life ever since I started preschool from spific special ed school and program in private school most likely with having a see it and OT and PT in the house and all a lot of hours to inclusion which added counseling to the list of therapy I had which most of the time was spend in the special ed room and then regular class with three teachers in the room to most recently resorse that's just counseling although I think I could still use OT and PT.

Going into high school I wanted to be In a special ed class because that's all I have been used to and due to ride bowling experience or at least the ones that I can recognize that the time there's parts I don't even recognize which annoys me but they said the school didn't have it in high school.They didn't have the inclusion they just had a resource and the 15 to 1 but they said I couldn't be put into 15 to one because it was only for kids do extremely misbehave and just get suspended a lot all that stuff but again I don't even know if that's true because one of my friends that was in my special ed class when I was young who moved to my school now in high school he's in one of my classes and he is in the 15 to 1 class and also uses a van which I do not use now since high school is across the street well this Duane with the special-education bus is a whole other can of worms where I was again desived but with me that's nothing new although I think this is only because it was Far away. Luckily from what I can tell some of the students are nice to me none of them really flat out bully me most of them just ignore me if you want to see more just search for this Friday you look different from your peers which I explain this. But anyway some of the time I'm not even sure if they're nice to me because they like me or their nice to me because I know I'm in special ed and I use a computer to type sometimes a my grandmother writes for me there are a few girls are really nice to me inPE but again I don't know that's just because the coach letting everyone know that Im not able to do a lot of the stuff they can do physically and to be careful around me because of my seizures but my seizures weren't directly mentioned. It's the thing that if I was only aspie or maybe even a higher functioning autistic and not lower functioning, I don't know if I would know any better. Maybe you guys would know if you were in my school but you're not in my school so I wouldn't know.

I'm not saying these classes should be made up of kids who are at a very low level of learning but they have to at least have some develpmental or psychiatric or medical disabllty which are to be able to behave at least in the majority or some of the time. Not kids that just don't care about school and purposely get into fights and become ghetto and all that social and nonsense that I have no idea what it is. Note this is only for children who behavior would disrupt the class so much as they would need their own class not to be mixed in with special-education because of these people who constantly miss behave and may even be a threat to other children and who might hurt them and the flat out bully people intentionally. I genuinely feel that special educators should put kids in the categories of who needs what help and be able to help everyone and have the appropriate teacher but I don't they have the budget for that.

So, essentially, you don't understand what "all people are created equal" means, I take it?

The kind of person who does judge people as inferior isn't being honest, though. They're being as*holes.

And you have no room to talk about "crazy ideas." You're the guy who seriously stated that black people are discriminated against because they're a minority in the US, and not, say, because of the history of their presence in the US.

I am aware that "all people are created equal" is written in one of the founding documents of the United States. I was not, however, aware that this document was magical, and that anything written on it is automatically true. Not everyone is equal. Nobody lives their lives as if everyone is equal. Saying that everyone is equal leaves no room for differentiation between people. You're calling me an as*hole. I assume you don't think of yourself as an as*hole. That's a differentiation. You think you're better than me because you believe my opinions are wrong and yours are right. That's simply another way of saying that I'm inferior and that you're superior. Worse vs. Better is all those words mean. Now, you might say that people can still have a multitude of differences and yet still be equal altogether. But this completely detaches the qualities that people have from the people themselves, which is utterly ridiculous. Good people are good because of the qualities that make them good, and bad people are bad because of the qualities that make them bad. To completely divorce the value of a person from who that person is renders that value meaningless. The only way everyone can really be equal is if everyone is exactly the same. Frankly, the idea that everyone is equal is totally unintelligible to me. With that worldview, there is absolutely no logical reason to despise someone like Hitler while revering someone like Mandela. I can't see how you can justify treating anyone differently from anyone else if everyone is equal.

Now, if you are arguing that all people should be treated equally in the eyes of the law, as the founders argued, then I absolutely agree. We are allowed to make distinctions between people while still understanding the equal protection under the law is good for us all. I also see no reason to treat some people poorly, even if they are perceived to be inferior. I think that a doctor that saves lives is most likely better and more valuable than a dude who works at McDonald's, but I see absolutely no reason why this doctor should treat this fast food worker poorly. In fact, I think this doctor has a greater responsibility to treat others well, due to the greater amount of power and influence he has. With great power comes great responsibility and all that. This is especially true for those who are entrusted with enforcing and creating the rules of society, like police officers and politicians. A businessman who takes advantage of his customers is a s**thead. A cop who uses his authority to bully and control others is pretty much the scum of the earth, in my opinion.

As for my comments about racism against blacks in the US, what I said was that prejudice and discrimination will always be leveled by the majority against minorities, regardless of context. In reality, minorities often have equally strong prejudices against the majority, but they do not have to power to enforce those prejudices in the form of law, as the majority does. Discrimination against blacks in the Americas was and is particularly egregious, in large part because of the state of the world during colonial times. As I stated before, the powerful will always demonize and exploit the powerless, and during the early colonial period, predominantly white western European nations were wealthy and powerful, while predominantly black western and south African nations were weak and destitute.

That is, unequivocally, the biggest reason that blacks were slaves and whites were slave owners. The dynamic has played out the same, regardless of where in the world it took place, or in what time period. The strong demonize and exploit the weak. And the strong do not necessarily have to be a numerical majority either, they only need to control the majority of power. Apartheid in South Africa is a great example of a numerical minority oppressing a numerical majority. The patriarchal standard of men controlling women is another. If the circumstances of history had been different; if black nations were colonizing the Americas while white nations were simply scrounging for enough for food to survive, you had better believe that those black colonists would have taken some white slaves with them. To disagree is to say that there is something fundamentally different about black people vs. white people. And that would make you the racist, not me.


PS. The line, "All men are created equal.", was written by a group of white slave owners who thought women were unfit to vote. Take from that what you will.

Last edited by Troy_Guther on 03 Jan 2014, 6:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

lol i hate to admit it but that's really how it adds up in a way. I am being trained, learning tricks, to lead lead a more normal life. cause even though i'm happy just rocking and stimming, i can mimic and be trained...

Thanks, Troy. I have emphasized in bold part of your message and will make some comments at the end of this message..

One thing has has bothered me for some time is that when people make points that are intellectually pristine and following the basic principles of logic, the people to whom these points are being made do not acknowledge them. Very troubling. Personally I get excited and almost jump with joy when someone points out to me how my thinking is wrong. However we do not see this happening much on wrong planet. What is going on when people do not acknowledge points that are being made? Are they really just ignoring these points because they are autistic, or is there some kind of psychological dynamic behind it?

I agree not everyone is equal or else communism would exist in our country.

I do think it sucks how a certain groups of people are treated like blacks were and now I find out how the poor get treated by society. I also know women are treated differently than men like men tend to get paid more than women and places want to hire men than women. Even I was treated different as a child and one of the reasons was because I was on the IEP and kids with IEPs tend to have different rules than normal kids so they don't enforce the rules on normal kids but do on special kids which my mom agrees it is unfair. There is also sexism so people tend to think different about men and women. I have also noticed the same when people like someone and dislike someone. They tend to think differently about people they like or dislike and I then see double standards with their opinion. Its okay for something to happen to their friend and they are supportive and none judgmental of them, but yet when the same thing happened to someone they didn't like, they are critical and harsh about them and judgmental. What gives? To me that is hypocrisy. I have also noticed some people will disagree with your opinion but yet when someone else expresses that same opinion, that person agrees with them. That makes no sense.

You're right, people are not equal and not treated equal either.