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LoveNotHate
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28 Dec 2013, 6:15 pm

Jacoby wrote:
There is nothing physically wrong with these people, nothing is causing them physical pain or discomfort. Their condition doesn't cause any physical defect, it's not progressive or gets worse over time. SRS doesn't cure anything, it will never change the gender that you were born as


You should add those sneaky trans people are really Martians, and Martian physiology is well-known to be unisex, so SRS does not even make sense!



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28 Dec 2013, 6:34 pm

beneficii wrote:
I'd say this thread has run its course. My side has valid, reliable medical sources backing it up and the other side has nothing but their own opinions.

At best your side has sociology as its source.

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In the meantime, the way this thread has turned out has convinced me even more to fight for our rights, to fight for trans healthcare! I will not allow willful ignorance to bring me down!

You knew the direction this thread would go when you started it.


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babybird
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28 Dec 2013, 6:39 pm

I wish I could get my tattoos removed on the NHS.


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beneficii
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28 Dec 2013, 6:45 pm

Raptor wrote:
At best your side has sociology as its source.


This is shameful. You didn't even bother to read the sources I presented. Either that, or you didn't understand them. Either way, there's nothing more I can do here.

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You knew the direction this thread would go when you started it.


You betcha I did.


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ArrantPariah
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28 Dec 2013, 6:46 pm

Raptor wrote:
/\
That sounds almost conservative.
Maybe there's hope for you yet.....


Well, I didn't say that they should be banished to an island or anything.

But, anyway, these folks obviously have a very steep uphill battle. If it were me, I'd be saving my pennies and trying to schedule a trip to Bangkok. But, they don't want to hear about that, so I don't know. It was hard enough just to pass Obamacare. Probably no-one in the government wants to open this particular can of worms.



beneficii
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28 Dec 2013, 6:47 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Raptor wrote:
/\
That sounds almost conservative.
Maybe there's hope for you yet.....


Well, I didn't say that they should be banished to an island or anything.

But, anyway, these folks obviously have a very steep uphill battle. If it were me, I'd be saving my pennies and trying to schedule a trip to Bangkok. But, they don't want to hear about that, so I don't know. It was hard enough just to pass Obamacare. Probably no-one in the government wants to open this particular can of worms.


The DAB doesn't seem to have any qualms about it:

http://www.hhs.gov/dab/decisions/dabdec ... cd1403.pdf


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beneficii
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28 Dec 2013, 6:50 pm

There was also that directive in Connecticut:

http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc ... 5137.story


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28 Dec 2013, 6:51 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Raptor wrote:
/\
That sounds almost conservative.
Maybe there's hope for you yet.....


Well, I didn't say that they should be banished to an island or anything.

But, anyway, these folks obviously have a very steep uphill battle. If it were me, I'd be saving my pennies and trying to schedule a trip to Bangkok. But, they don't want to hear about that, so I don't know. It was hard enough just to pass Obamacare. Probably no-one in the government wants to open this particular can of worms.


Yes, I have to agree. The wisest course of action would be to start saving up even if it means having it done in Bangkok or wherever else. They're not going to get their way in this country in the foreseeable future.


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beneficii
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28 Dec 2013, 6:58 pm

beneficii wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Raptor wrote:
/\
That sounds almost conservative.
Maybe there's hope for you yet.....


Well, I didn't say that they should be banished to an island or anything.

But, anyway, these folks obviously have a very steep uphill battle. If it were me, I'd be saving my pennies and trying to schedule a trip to Bangkok. But, they don't want to hear about that, so I don't know. It was hard enough just to pass Obamacare. Probably no-one in the government wants to open this particular can of worms.


The DAB doesn't seem to have any qualms about it:

http://www.hhs.gov/dab/decisions/dabdec ... cd1403.pdf


In case this is too dense to read, here's the ruling in plain terms:

http://www.washingtonblade.com/2013/12/ ... ne-gender/


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Shau
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28 Dec 2013, 7:08 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Well, people who can't afford a face-lift have to live with the wrinkles.


Hello my fellow connoisseur of the SEA beauties. Now, are you planning on explaining to us exactly how you're comparing wrinkles to a medical state that routinely drives people to suicide?

Cause if not, it was an awfully silly thing to say, wasn't it? That said, if I had this problem, I'd go to Thailand, leave my man parts alone, and become a kathoey.

Of course, I noticed Raptor has nothing to comment on decisions made under duress as he's got nothing as per usual.



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28 Dec 2013, 7:22 pm

Well, okay. If current medical opinion is that this is a medical necessity to treat gender identity disorder, then fine.

I suppose that excessive worry about wrinkles could also make a face-lift a medical necessity--as long as there were medical opinions to back it up.



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28 Dec 2013, 7:28 pm

I don't understand gender dysphoria.

If you are a female in a male body, then why do you need hormone treatment to make you become female?

If you already feel female, then surely you should already have those hormones.

Please excuse my ignorance.


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28 Dec 2013, 7:46 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Well, okay. If current medical opinion is that this is a medical necessity to treat gender identity disorder, then fine.

I suppose that excessive worry about wrinkles could also make a face-lift a medical necessity--as long as there were medical opinions to back it up.


Potentially. Personally myself, rather than resorting to these crazy surgeries and hormone treatments, I'd be one to suggest that we, as a society, help these people with gender dysphoria to appreciate and accept themselves as they are. A male body that acts like a female inside, there's nothing wrong with that and they shouldn't be lead to feel that they need to change themselves. But that's not the society they're in, hence the desire to transition.



LoveNotHate
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28 Dec 2013, 8:14 pm

]

babybird wrote:
I don't understand gender dysphoria.

If you are a female in a male body, then why do you need hormone treatment to make you become female?

If you already feel female, then surely you should already have those hormones.

Please excuse my ignorance.


We cannot speak in generalities with regards to trans people, because they vary with regard to their condition, and in the severity of their gender dysphoria.

Transsexuality to me means when I was young I knew I was a girl, and then male hormones made me lose my mind, and become an angry, unstable, misfit that developed persistent, and secret thoughts of wishing I was a girl.

Once I lost my mind, I never felt I was a girl - all I had were these thoughts of wanting to be a girl. Later I would realize that the brain had formed two personalities: the original, and the fake male one that helped me survive.

The female hormones minimized the persistant thoughts, and wishes. My brain would feel better - like a re-integration was happening. My original personality slowly developed. One day I woke up and the persistant thoughts and wishes were gone and my brain had finally aligned with who I am. The original personality had control of the body! I talk like a girl now! When I wake up I am me! The happiness is beyond perhaps anything you will experience.

This is likely way beyond the comprehension of most people, so that is why trans-hate exists.



Last edited by LoveNotHate on 28 Dec 2013, 8:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ArrantPariah
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28 Dec 2013, 8:27 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
This is likely way beyond the comprehension of most people, so that is why trans-hate exists.


Well, most of us here do have our problems.



LoveNotHate
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28 Dec 2013, 8:34 pm

Shau wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Well, okay. If current medical opinion is that this is a medical necessity to treat gender identity disorder, then fine.

I suppose that excessive worry about wrinkles could also make a face-lift a medical necessity--as long as there were medical opinions to back it up.


Potentially. Personally myself, rather than resorting to these crazy surgeries and hormone treatments, I'd be one to suggest that we, as a society, help these people with gender dysphoria to appreciate and accept themselves as they are. A male body that acts like a female inside, there's nothing wrong with that and they shouldn't be lead to feel that they need to change themselves. But that's not the society they're in, hence the desire to transition.


Agree, that the DSM & trans community seems to have a one-track mind that transition is the only answer.

I wrote about this on the LGBT thread that "partial transition" is not in the DSM, so it does not exist.

However, my brain needs some estrogen or I get Gender Dysphoria, and many trans woman report this, and society does not appear tolerant of hybrid-people e.g., men with boobs and long hair ?

At a job in 2002-2004 I was yelled at by co-workers for NOT TRANSITIONING and showing up as a male with long hair that talked like a girl. I was told I am "agent Smith from the Matrix who impersonates someone". I had to go to my boss to stop the personal attacks. The woman really did not like that I was doing this. They felt that since I talked like a girl, had long hair, and looked very close to being a girl, then I should not be presenting myself as male.

I was entertainment for them to see the guy who talked like a girl. At the Christmas party the relatives would be there, and I would hear commentary about my situation which meant my co-workers were sharing my plight with their spouses. Sometimes the relatives would call me directly just to hear me.

Also, I do think full-transition has to be an option for some.