Women define Men & Men define Woman

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AspergianMutantt
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24 Feb 2014, 10:20 am

What women define a Man as being? & what does men define Woman as being?
Mostly I am interested in what women feel defines a man, someone they would find attractive and desirable as a male.
NOT just based on their sexual parts or how handsome/pretty they are.
What do you look for in that potential mate you that you wouldn't as commonly find in the apposite gender.
The things about the opposite sex that you find defines their sex for you into an attractive mate.
What do you consider feminine, and what do you consider masculine.
What feminine traits would you find appealing/unappealing in a male, and vica versa.
And what turns you off/on about some men/women that you feel are common traits in the opposite sex.
What do you expect a real man or woman to be that defines them from the other sex?



CockneyRebel
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24 Feb 2014, 10:44 am

The only person that I can define myself, because I'm the only person that I really know.

I'm a big, strong woman who looks like Mick Avory who identifies as Male, due to the fact that I have gender issues.


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AspergianMutantt
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24 Feb 2014, 11:05 am

Oh come on people, I am sure that more then once in your life times you looked upon someone and thought to your self that thats no man, or that thats no woman. or the other way around like, wow what a man/woman.

Or when you were little and daydreaming of being that Cinderella, or that Hero for the ladies, what defines this for you?

Come on lets define this a bit.

Or if your reluctant to answer the question, please state why.



Eureka13
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24 Feb 2014, 11:57 am

No matter what I say, I'm gonna get bashed for gender-bashing. No matter WHAT I say! Because someone will feel like they are being excluded from or insulted by my definition of "male" and will get their knickers in a twist over it.

How about the women define what they think are ideal feminine traits and the men define what they think are ideal male traits? Then we can see how well (or poorly) our ideas align. :D



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24 Feb 2014, 12:18 pm

What I actually like on my partner: I share many interests with him, so we can spend tons of time together, while having fun. We like playing Coop computer games with each other, pen&paper roleplaying (that D&D stuff), have certain interests on movies (Horror, Thriller, black humour comedies, ...), but like as well to move around in nature. He was before a bit bored of simple hiking, but since his geocashing we are both happy. ^^ But we have as well some interests, that we can do on our own, so if one simply needs to spend a bit on his own or do an interest we do not share, its no problem for the other one.

About that masculinity/femininity stuff you are talking of: We live in 21st century. I dont know if I think of it as masculine, but I see it as a sign of common sense, if you simply are the person that you are and confidently dont give a f**k, about what society is actually refering to as masculine/feminine.

Things that turn me off: Outdated people, being afraid to be the way they are, out of someone else could refer to them as not fitting into some sort of masculine/feminine stereotype.


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Oh come on people, I am sure that more then once in your life times you looked upon someone and thought to your self that thats no man, or that thats no woman. or the other way around like, wow what a man/woman.
Yop, whenever I see a man with a tons of self esteem issues, bitching around in self pity, to be as some stereotype tells him to be to feel well about himself, then I think that this sort of guy turns me off. If he has that much issues about gender-stereotypes, I almost know, that he wont get along with me or be of that kind that will b***h around if I dare to shoot him at FPS or whatever.



AspergianMutantt
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24 Feb 2014, 12:44 pm

Well, lets see.

The women I been with, there was this one, the was aspi like me, when she was really happy she would go dancing around flapping her arms and stiming in a happy way and making happy little sounds, I LOVED THAT, women are more able to openly express them selves which makes it more easy for me to read. not to mention it made me feel a bit more relaxed about my own stiming.

I like it when a female is a little needy and clingy, don't get me wrong I also like the smart and confident, but it makes me feel like I am needed and wanted, if not even desired. more then once have I been dumped, it feels good not having to worry so much of that wondering eye, or worrying if she is happy with me or not, she tells me with her holding onto and wanting to keep me, I feel needed.

The smell of a woman, raw clean woman, nothing is sweeter.

Smiles, I used to bring home wild flowers most every day while they grew, and bring home treats other times of the year, just to see those smiles, it makes me happy seeing a partner smile. (problem with this is they get so used to it they become numb to it, oh more flowers, thats nice). there is something in a womans smile that just brightens my day, esp when its just for me.

When a woman cries I melt, I cant help it. I don't like seeing anyone hurt or cry, but when a woman does it, it brings out the man in me that wants to go fight that dragon for her. it makes me want to be protective of her.

PMS, I can understand women not wanting to admit to their feelings being overbearing because of their PMS, it makes them feel their feelings are being devalued when a man says hey your just PMSing, but really, YOU ARE, admit to it as it happens, not after, because it stresses out men too, its not something we can fix.

Men generally thinks in terms that if you bring a worry to him your expecting him to "fix" it, where most of the time women just wants to be listened too.

I love the way women walk, its because of the way their hips are built, so they sway when they walk, this makes me think of all the nice things she could do with that to me. cant help it, i think thats just part of being male, and women know this because they use it.

Nice, I love it when women are nice, although it gets a bit abusive when its used to manipulate a man into what they want too often, without a man getting rewards there after. its like a bate and switch, its called using men. its fine when you actually reward a man with what you know he "really" wants or would like, sometimes just a kiss and affections is good enough.

I am sure I can, and will add more, come on peeps, kick down.



AspergianMutantt
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24 Feb 2014, 12:54 pm

Schneekugel wrote:

Things that turn me off: Outdated people, being afraid to be the way they are, out of someone else could refer to them as not fitting into some sort of masculine/feminine stereotype.

whenever I see a man with a tons of self esteem issues, bitching around in self pity, to be as some stereotype tells him to be to feel well about himself, then I think that this sort of guy turns me off. If he has that much issues about gender-stereotypes, I almost know, that he wont get along with me or be of that kind that will b***h around if I dare to shoot him at FPS or whatever.


In otherwords, you feel a man should be confident, stop whining and do something about it attitude.
One thing I have come to realize, is the confidence of a man is vary important to a woman, where its not always so the other way around. men like to feel needed and wanted, desired.

Take for instance a man getting the crud kicked out of him by bullies most every day. and he just cant seem to win, even though women can empathies, even sympathies, the male is a turn off because he is not handling the situation, he is weak and unable to be that person of security and protection for the female. and if he whines it only makes him look worse. where a real man just deals with it and finds a solution that works for him. where if you reverse the roles, females are expected to be emotional and gain support that way and is not frowned upon for being weak. A males ego crashing from abuse is less tolerated then that of a females, so men don't get that support, to look for that support is to risk falling from womans graces because of being under confident and weak. a humiliation that automatically puts men in the friend zone, where it wouldn't a woman., which in turn aggravates the condition because men do need that support from women just like women needs it from men.



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24 Feb 2014, 1:17 pm

A healthy dose of confidence in a woman is extremely important to me. I've been with far too many insecure women. And I don't mean some insecurities, as having a few of those exists in almost every average human being. I mean extreme insecurity and/or complete non-existent self esteem/confidence.



AspergianMutantt
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24 Feb 2014, 1:30 pm

MadeUnderground wrote:
A healthy dose of confidence in a woman is extremely important to me. I've been with far too many insecure women. And I don't mean some insecurities, as having a few of those exists in almost every average human being. I mean extreme insecurity and/or complete non-existent self esteem/confidence.


I agree, the extremes looks bad on either gender, thats a given.



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24 Feb 2014, 1:38 pm

I want to keep my partner as well, but not because of me needing him, but because of him being the person, that he is, making me happier. :)

The thing about smiles is not about woman, it simply makes everyone happy, to see the person smile, that you like. :)

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...admit to it as it happens...
There is not little tiny voice telling you, that the way you actually feel, is because of an possible PMS. It takes a lot of experience and control of your own feelings, to question them, when you are actually very emotional angry or sad. Its something that man and woman normally learn when maturing, to control their feelings, and not simply to let go. So that you can stay cognitive and analyze them, but its not something that most teenies actually are capable of. Actually I have learned to do so, but still does that not help that much: So if you are actually feeling miserable due to hormon imbalance, unlike other situations, the cognitive knowledge is not much of an help. I simply "retreat" for those days, and try to stay on my own, and make myself busy, so my thoughts are not spinning and messing around. (Some Marihuana is as well of some help if my moode gets too low. ^^) But actually its the way it is, so I cant take any issues or stress quiet less during that time, and are much more anxious.

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Men generally thinks in terms that if you bring a worry to him your expecting him to "fix" it, where most of the time women just wants to be listened too.
If you know so, then care for it. Due to my aspergers, when it comes to social behavior, I am the far less social one. I had to learn as well, that sometimes my partner, simply wants me to listen, so that he can vent a bit, about stuff that happens in office or whatever. I am not really interested in the stuff itself, so after two years, I still dont memorize his coworkers names, but I care for him, so if he has the need for me listening to him to feel better, its ok for me.

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I love the way women walk, its because of the way their hips are built, so they sway when they walk,
No, "they" dont do that. Its the criplling shoes they wear, that are ruining the health of the person, that you pretend to like. You can simply test that by wearing them yourself, and adore your hipswings, when walking. ^^

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n otherwords, you feel a man should be confident, stop whining and do something about it attitude.


No, you did not understand anything, but are caugh in your role-identities. I feel attracted to people, simply accepting themselves and others the way they are. So if someone is more emotional, I respect it, if that person simply is the way it is. If the person is whiny, and whines, then that person respect itselfs. If a person feels whiny but tells himself: "But I must play gorilla according to my expected gender identity. I must not allow myself to be the person that I are, because other people could think bad of me, and I am only worth what other think of me." then I dont feel attracted.

If you want to whine. Confidence is not about whining or not whining, but about whining when you feel to it, and not whining when you not feel to it, and about confidently not caring what others think about you whining or not whining. You can absolutely whine in an confident way. ^^ If a boy whines, because of his beloved pet being hurt, and his grandfathers tells him stuff like "Gnagnagna boys dont whine..." and the boys replies, "I dont care, because I feel to it and want to whine now." then this boy is whining and confident.

Its the type of person that you describe, that mismentions confidence with acting according to some stereotype, that I dont feel attracted to. Simply because such a person will only feel well and confident as long as other care for his stereotypes as well, and because of me simply not being intersted in wasting time for nonsense, sooner or later that type of person will have issues with me about nonsense stuff like: "Oh my god, dont dare to shoot me when playing first person shooters, dont dare to expect me to wash my hands after toilettes, dont dare to tell me when I am driving too fast, ..." and other nonsense.

And if its ok for you, that does not go only with boys but as well with girls, that they annoy me if they issue around all the time about stereotypes. Be the person you are, and if you feel happy being a barbie its ok and be confident about it, but dont issue around about others not having the same needs or caring for it.

Quote:
Take for instance a man getting the crud kicked out of him by bullies most every day. and he just cant seem to win, even though women can empathies, even sympathies, the male is a turn off because he is not handling the situation, he is weak and unable to be that person of security and protection for the female. and if he whines it only makes him look worse.
Actually I think of it being a turnoff if a man thinks of me being forced to be my "security and protection"-chimp. O_o If you are overpowered then you are overpowered. If three person attack me, I wont have a chance as well, do I now need to feel bad about not being the security-chimp for my partner? ^^ Is a man, in your eyes, not worth to be cared for, but only woman?

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where a real man just deals with it
Where a real man according to you, simply care to behave like others expect him to do, according to some stereotype? Instead of simply questioning himself, how HE wants to feel toward that situation? And then act like he feels like, anyway if its fitting into any stereotype or not, because of him taking himself serious and caring for himself, instead of caring for others that are not involved? It may be that real man automatically might act like you described it, but if that are as well a confident man, I would not agree about.

Sorry, I already had such a "real man", and there was nothing attractive about that guy bitching around, when I dare to beat him in videogames "Ugh, ugh, ugh...a real man lets not beat himself by a woman in mortal kombat....", dare to ask him to drive slower when driving to fast "Ugh, ugh, ugh...a real man lets not tell himself by a woman how he shall drive." dare to act the way I feel like and not the way some idiotic stereotype tells me "Ugh, ugh, ugh, a real man owns a woman that behaves according to the stereotype she is expected..." and all the kind of s**t.

The reason why I feel attracted to my partner, is that he is not bothering me all the time with some lame gender stereotypes. But he is bothering about me and him. He lets me be the person that I am, does not bother about others maybe feeling disturbed about it, but simply expects me as well to accept him to be the person that he is. Thats confidence for me, and it feels attractive to me. Not only about my partner, but in general about the people I feel as friends. While many of them are very different about their characters, they all have in common to accept themselves the way they are.



AspergianMutantt
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24 Feb 2014, 2:25 pm

Schneekugel wrote:
.



Good good this is better, at least were somewhat defining what confidence means to the other gender. just have to keep the thought open that the more issues an individual has the lesser the odds of that person finding or even getting into a good relationship. so its more of a mater of percentiles. how many women/men feels the same of or like the way you do, and how many want if not expect those traditional expectations.

To many confidence is also reflected in ambitions, since most females I have seen feel this is also paramount to them in a male.

So confidence to you is that of a person simply liking who they are and what they do regardless of social acceptance or not. that underdog that even if rejected by society stands for what they believe in. romantic for sure, but not vary realistic if a person wants to eventually find a mate sooner rather then later in life. not to mention the many complaints I have seen about men being to suborn to consider or change their ways to what others finds more acceptable behavior.

For instance, in my youth I loved my unfettered freedom, I traveled coast to coast and been through every state in the continental united states, seen beauty in nature few others would hope to see. and even though many women may glamorize the idea of such travels, few I am sure would want to do it by backpack or thumb or traveling hippie buss or motorcycle, or worse yet no home nest to come back too, where the road and the world is your home, a true gypsy life. as such VARY few women would want that kind of insecurities in exchange for that freedom. therefore the odds becomes slim. in the end you may say it does not matter as long as eventually I find a like minded soul who enjoys the same, when this is not true, time and age does mater, the quality of the moments we live and share if waisted can not be brought back nor restored. some uncertainties are not worth waiting a life time for when its unlikely to pan out. I loved my freedom and who I was, but it was too unacceptable if I ever wanted to mate and be with wife and child. to know love and they the love of who I am, sacrifices has to be made.

Ya know, I may not have a mate, but eventually my son will come of age, to where even if the mother said no it would become more detrimental to their relationship then to simply let him go, and he and I will travel the world, I will unleash that gypsy in him that he was born of me. then we can do it together. if I cant have a mate to do it with me, I do have a son now, thats good enough for me., what if he don't want to? hahaha, he is already hungry for it, i don't just show my son documentary after documentary just to educate him, it creates that desire to see, to explore, to live it. I am just waiting till he is of age. Man can not have child without woman.

Woman wants a man whom fits their needs, when they don't truly understand the nature of mans needs past that of his hormones. there is that desire to explore and create, its not just an ambition nor that of confidence, its a curiosity. whats over the next hill, without that we wouldn't be wanting to explore the stars nor that of making our world a better place. mans greed is mostly based mostly upon his desire for woman child and social security, when that need is satisfied his concerns turns to more socially beneficial things.



Last edited by AspergianMutantt on 24 Feb 2014, 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Deuterium
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24 Feb 2014, 3:53 pm

AspergianMutantt wrote:
NOT just based on their sexual parts or how handsome/pretty they are.
...
I am sure that more then once in your life times you looked upon someone and thought to your self that thats no man, or that thats no woman. or the other way around like, wow what a man/woman.

No, not all of us. Those of us who are genderf***ed might end up driving you nuts. I will try to explain why, at least from my standpoint.

My ideas of these definitions of 'masculine' and 'feminine' are almost entirely physical. I suspect this is because I have no sense of internal gender identity, myself. I know what is on my outside and that it means I have to put 'M' on legal papers, but it means nothing to my sense of self. It should not be so surprising that I have gotten a bit up-in-arms in previous threads that have been very sex-stereotyping. While I do recognize that the majority fall into the gender binary quite easily, sometimes I take these kinds of threads, which can blatantly suggest that being a certain sex means you're pre-programmed to be terrible in some specific way, more personally than I should.

On the topic of physical things (since that's the only real definition I have), I am aesthetically attracted to what's usually considered feminine. Soft lines, cute hair, fashions marketed to females, etc.

I cannot relate at all to how men can say that they find women attractive, and would admit that they would like to be attractive, but then seek to groom and dress themselves in masculine ways. If they find femininity attractive, why do they seek masculinity for themselves? There are two standards in this mindset: what's attractive for women and what's attractive for men - a reflection of a gender binary.

But if you do not associate in that binary, things may be different. In my mind, feminine aesthetics are what is attractive. Entirely. For everyone. There is only one standard and it doesn't care about gender. If I want to feel attractive, then would need to promote aesthetic femininity in myself (hair, clothes, shaving, etc.) And I do. Saying "X is appealing but I want to look like Y" doesn't make sense to me. X is appealing, and I want to be appealing, so I want to be like X. What is between my legs doesn't enter the picture aside from the prejudices I realize I may experience from others.

I grasp it from an evolutionary point of view: being appealing to the opposite sex promoting reproduction, but I can't grasp it in relative to my own experience.

I explain this as a way to help illustrate what someone who does not fit into conventional binary genders may think like, despite that your posts have suggested there are definitely only two 'sides'.



AspergianMutantt
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24 Feb 2014, 4:13 pm

Deuterium wrote:
AspergianMutantt wrote:
NOT just based on their sexual parts or how handsome/pretty they are.
...
I am sure that more then once in your life times you looked upon someone and thought to your self that thats no man, or that thats no woman. or the other way around like, wow what a man/woman.

No, not all of us. Those of us who are genderf***ed might end up driving you nuts. I will try to explain why, at least from my standpoint.

My ideas of these definitions of 'masculine' and 'feminine' are almost entirely physical. I suspect this is because I have no sense of internal gender identity, myself. I know what is on my outside and that it means I have to put 'M' on legal papers, but it means nothing to my sense of self. It should not be so surprising that I have gotten a bit up-in-arms in previous threads that have been very sex-stereotyping. While I do recognize that the majority fall into the gender binary quite easily, sometimes I take these kinds of threads, which can blatantly suggest that being a certain sex means you're pre-programmed to be terrible in some specific way, more personally than I should.

On the topic of physical things (since that's the only real definition I have), I am aesthetically attracted to what's usually considered feminine. Soft lines, cute hair, fashions marketed to females, etc.

I cannot relate at all to how men can say that they find women attractive, and would admit that they would like to be attractive, but then seek to groom and dress themselves in masculine ways. If they find femininity attractive, why do they seek masculinity for themselves? There are two standards in this mindset: what's attractive for women and what's attractive for men - a reflection of a gender binary.

But if you do not associate in that binary, things may be different. In my mind, feminine aesthetics are what is attractive. Entirely. For everyone. There is only one standard and it doesn't care about gender. If I want to feel attractive, then would need to promote aesthetic femininity in myself (hair, clothes, shaving, etc.) And I do. Saying "X is appealing but I want to look like Y" doesn't make sense to me. X is appealing, and I want to be appealing, so I want to be like X. What is between my legs doesn't enter the picture aside from the prejudices I realize I may experience from others.

I grasp it from an evolutionary point of view: being appealing to the opposite sex promoting reproduction, but I can't grasp it in relative to my own experience.

I explain this as a way to help illustrate what someone who does not fit into conventional binary genders may think like, despite that your posts have suggested there are definitely only two 'sides'.


Ya know, I couldnt agree with you more, just there is that genetic need to pro create, so we do take standards. this does not mean your wrong, if anything I find you more true to whom you are then others may be willing will to see, yet we all have our needs. much of them are genetic in nature. androids will learn from you what normal bias people can not teach them, how to be human.



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24 Feb 2014, 4:16 pm

I just prefer to stick with the biological definitions of "male" and "female." You are what you are, and we don't have the technology to change it, no matter how much gene therapy or surgery you have.

Hell, in recent times, even that opinion has gotten me into trouble, what with state-provided gender reassignment surgery and other such events.


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24 Feb 2014, 4:22 pm

headhunter228 wrote:
I just prefer to stick with the biological definitions of "male" and "female." You are what you are, and we don't have the technology to change it, no matter how much gene therapy or surgery you have.

Hell, in recent times, even that opinion has gotten me into trouble, what with state-provided gender reassignment surgery and other such events.


Do tell us more, help us understand your prospective.
If your life is to have value, then it must have the truth of you behind it to back it.
nothing is more admirable then the truth of who you are.

Help me see who you are.

I had a son, whom didn't know if he wanted to be male or female, I never judged him for that, in the end he became a husband to a nice woman. all that matters is its your own life to make happy, even though I would love to have grandchildren to spoil.