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khaoz
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21 Mar 2014, 11:31 am

Conservative Senator admits what everyone already knows. These voter rules changes that have been going on all over the country have nothing to do with voter fraud. Voter fraud is virtually nonexistent. These laws are harassment and trying to limit the number of voters who get to the polls who would vote against Conservatives. They are targeting specific groups of people trying to make it extremely difficult to impossible for them to get to their polling place to place their vote. Creating red tape and bureaucratic chaos to impede voters rights for no other reason than they are losing in the demographics in key voting areas. Its nice to finally see an honest Conservative. Someone please tell Scott Walker and Rick Scott.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/0 ... ppression/



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21 Mar 2014, 2:26 pm

And no one in Rep. Schultz's party seems aware that it's men with integrity like him who could provide the key to survival for the Republican party, not the race baiters, homophobes, and religious nuts who scheme and conspire to disenfranchise American voters.


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khaoz
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21 Mar 2014, 2:32 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
And no one in Rep. Schultz's party seems aware that it's men with integrity like him who could provide the key to survival for the Republican party, not the race baiters, homophobes, and religious nuts who scheme and conspire to disenfranchise American voters.


Because race baiters, homophobes and religious nuts are the squeakiest wheel. The crazier you are, the more outrageous you are, the more ignorant you are, the more votes you get from the Conservative "base". Conservatism has become the party of trolls. Trolls get attention. Ted Cruz doesn't get attention because he is a good politician. He gets attention because he is willing to allow anything to come out of his mouth, without filtration. Conservatives love that lack of personal responsibility.



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21 Mar 2014, 2:36 pm

Voter suppression revisited. :roll:


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khaoz
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21 Mar 2014, 2:41 pm

Raptor wrote:
Voter suppression revisited. :roll:


voter suppression is real. It is a tactic of a party with no integrity who knows they are losing their demographic base. No more white man power, so they cheat to steal what they cannot win honestly.



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21 Mar 2014, 6:38 pm

khaoz wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Voter suppression revisited. :roll:


voter suppression is real. It is a tactic of a party with no integrity who knows they are losing their demographic base. No more white man power, so they cheat to steal what they cannot win honestly.


So you're saying that the Republican Party (what you call the troll party) has conspired to keep non-whites from voting with this "voter suppression" thingy?
I think you and Kraichgauer must have been separated at birth.


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Kraichgauer
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21 Mar 2014, 7:13 pm

Raptor wrote:
khaoz wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Voter suppression revisited. :roll:


voter suppression is real. It is a tactic of a party with no integrity who knows they are losing their demographic base. No more white man power, so they cheat to steal what they cannot win honestly.


So you're saying that the Republican Party (what you call the troll party) has conspired to keep non-whites from voting with this "voter suppression" thingy?
I think you and Kraichgauer must have been separated at birth.


Maybe we were! :lol:
But seriously, this Schultz guy admitted what the Republican party is up to. Why wold he lie? Unless you believe he's actually a Democratic plant, which is a bit paranoid. And as Schultz himself had pointed out, there is absolutely no evidence of voter fraud.


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Raptor
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21 Mar 2014, 9:27 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
khaoz wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Voter suppression revisited. :roll:


voter suppression is real. It is a tactic of a party with no integrity who knows they are losing their demographic base. No more white man power, so they cheat to steal what they cannot win honestly.


So you're saying that the Republican Party (what you call the troll party) has conspired to keep non-whites from voting with this "voter suppression" thingy?
I think you and Kraichgauer must have been separated at birth.


Maybe we were! :lol:
But seriously, this Schultz guy admitted what the Republican party is up to. Why wold he lie? Unless you believe he's actually a Democratic plant, which is a bit paranoid. And as Schultz himself had pointed out, there is absolutely no evidence of voter fraud.


I've never bothered to research whether or not there's voter fraud and/or how much of it.
I go to the polls and show them my ID and they give me a ballot. I do not feel suppressed or marginalized at having to do that. Same for buying a gun except it's considerable more more hassle (ID, ATF form 4473, paying for the NICS check) but I don't feel particular marginalized or suppressed. I don't like it but I don't scream about being marginalized, either.
But hey, let's say there is no evidence of voter fraud so we do away with voter ID. Since there is no evidence that jumping through hoops to buy a gun deters armed violence we'll do the same for all gun purchases. Hey, if it works for one right then I see no reason for it not to work for another right. I'm sure you'll agree if you're really concerned about rights.


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Kraichgauer
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21 Mar 2014, 10:44 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
khaoz wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Voter suppression revisited. :roll:


voter suppression is real. It is a tactic of a party with no integrity who knows they are losing their demographic base. No more white man power, so they cheat to steal what they cannot win honestly.


So you're saying that the Republican Party (what you call the troll party) has conspired to keep non-whites from voting with this "voter suppression" thingy?
I think you and Kraichgauer must have been separated at birth.


Maybe we were! :lol:
But seriously, this Schultz guy admitted what the Republican party is up to. Why wold he lie? Unless you believe he's actually a Democratic plant, which is a bit paranoid. And as Schultz himself had pointed out, there is absolutely no evidence of voter fraud.


I've never bothered to research whether or not there's voter fraud and/or how much of it.
I go to the polls and show them my ID and they give me a ballot. I do not feel suppressed or marginalized at having to do that. Same for buying a gun except it's considerable more more hassle (ID, ATF form 4473, paying for the NICS check) but I don't feel particular marginalized or suppressed. I don't like it but I don't scream about being marginalized, either.
But hey, let's say there is no evidence of voter fraud so we do away with voter ID. Since there is no evidence that jumping through hoops to buy a gun deters armed violence we'll do the same for all gun purchases. Hey, if it works for one right then I see no reason for it not to work for another right. I'm sure you'll agree if you're really concerned about rights.


Requiring ID at the polls, if that ID is not provided free of charge, is then a poll tax, directed purposely at people who can't afford to buy.
As for comparing proper ID for voting to a gun license - there isn't any attempt to keep people from ever owning guns as there is with discouraging people belonging to "unwanted groups" from voting. I think it's fair to say, if someone is found unfit to own a gun, there is a legitimate reason, whether they have mental defect, criminal record, etc. With persons denied voting rights, the reasons are ridiculously trumped up, ranging from one elderly black lady not being able to provide her marriage certificate from years before, to a WWII veteran suddenly accused of not really being a citizen.


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sly279
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21 Mar 2014, 11:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
khaoz wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Voter suppression revisited. :roll:


voter suppression is real. It is a tactic of a party with no integrity who knows they are losing their demographic base. No more white man power, so they cheat to steal what they cannot win honestly.


So you're saying that the Republican Party (what you call the troll party) has conspired to keep non-whites from voting with this "voter suppression" thingy?
I think you and Kraichgauer must have been separated at birth.


Maybe we were! :lol:
But seriously, this Schultz guy admitted what the Republican party is up to. Why wold he lie? Unless you believe he's actually a Democratic plant, which is a bit paranoid. And as Schultz himself had pointed out, there is absolutely no evidence of voter fraud.


I've never bothered to research whether or not there's voter fraud and/or how much of it.
I go to the polls and show them my ID and they give me a ballot. I do not feel suppressed or marginalized at having to do that. Same for buying a gun except it's considerable more more hassle (ID, ATF form 4473, paying for the NICS check) but I don't feel particular marginalized or suppressed. I don't like it but I don't scream about being marginalized, either.
But hey, let's say there is no evidence of voter fraud so we do away with voter ID. Since there is no evidence that jumping through hoops to buy a gun deters armed violence we'll do the same for all gun purchases. Hey, if it works for one right then I see no reason for it not to work for another right. I'm sure you'll agree if you're really concerned about rights.


Requiring ID at the polls, if that ID is not provided free of charge, is then a poll tax, directed purposely at people who can't afford to buy.
As for comparing proper ID for voting to a gun license - there isn't any attempt to keep people from ever owning guns as there is with discouraging people belonging to "unwanted groups" from voting. I think it's fair to say, if someone is found unfit to own a gun, there is a legitimate reason, whether they have mental defect, criminal record, etc. With persons denied voting rights, the reasons are ridiculously trumped up, ranging from one elderly black lady not being able to provide her marriage certificate from years before, to a WWII veteran suddenly accused of not really being a citizen.


firstly the left is always trying to increase the cost of buying guns with the goal of preventing the poor to middle classe from being able to use their rights. This is very similar to you're poll tax preventing voting.

everyone who lives in the USA should get a state ID. It proves you're a citizen and you need it to work. I even needed it for welfare(heck they'll pay for it) So I see no reason anyone legally able to vote can't get a id to show. Its like $30-60 dollars and good for something like 15 years. so its very cheap yearly I'm pretty dam poor and yet I paid it twice over 4 years and due to federal changes I'll likely be paying it again before it expires. Here we get the voting book mailed to us, anyone could fill it out and send it in without me even knowing. I'd much rather go to a poll show ID and vote. Its more fun that way anyways.



Kraichgauer
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21 Mar 2014, 11:58 pm

sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
khaoz wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Voter suppression revisited. :roll:


voter suppression is real. It is a tactic of a party with no integrity who knows they are losing their demographic base. No more white man power, so they cheat to steal what they cannot win honestly.


So you're saying that the Republican Party (what you call the troll party) has conspired to keep non-whites from voting with this "voter suppression" thingy?
I think you and Kraichgauer must have been separated at birth.


Maybe we were! :lol:
But seriously, this Schultz guy admitted what the Republican party is up to. Why wold he lie? Unless you believe he's actually a Democratic plant, which is a bit paranoid. And as Schultz himself had pointed out, there is absolutely no evidence of voter fraud.


I've never bothered to research whether or not there's voter fraud and/or how much of it.
I go to the polls and show them my ID and they give me a ballot. I do not feel suppressed or marginalized at having to do that. Same for buying a gun except it's considerable more more hassle (ID, ATF form 4473, paying for the NICS check) but I don't feel particular marginalized or suppressed. I don't like it but I don't scream about being marginalized, either.
But hey, let's say there is no evidence of voter fraud so we do away with voter ID. Since there is no evidence that jumping through hoops to buy a gun deters armed violence we'll do the same for all gun purchases. Hey, if it works for one right then I see no reason for it not to work for another right. I'm sure you'll agree if you're really concerned about rights.


Requiring ID at the polls, if that ID is not provided free of charge, is then a poll tax, directed purposely at people who can't afford to buy.
As for comparing proper ID for voting to a gun license - there isn't any attempt to keep people from ever owning guns as there is with discouraging people belonging to "unwanted groups" from voting. I think it's fair to say, if someone is found unfit to own a gun, there is a legitimate reason, whether they have mental defect, criminal record, etc. With persons denied voting rights, the reasons are ridiculously trumped up, ranging from one elderly black lady not being able to provide her marriage certificate from years before, to a WWII veteran suddenly accused of not really being a citizen.


firstly the left is always trying to increase the cost of buying guns with the goal of preventing the poor to middle classe from being able to use their rights. This is very similar to you're poll tax preventing voting.

everyone who lives in the USA should get a state ID. It proves you're a citizen and you need it to work. I even needed it for welfare(heck they'll pay for it) So I see no reason anyone legally able to vote can't get a id to show. Its like $30-60 dollars and good for something like 15 years. so its very cheap yearly I'm pretty dam poor and yet I paid it twice over 4 years and due to federal changes I'll likely be paying it again before it expires. Here we get the voting book mailed to us, anyone could fill it out and send it in without me even knowing. I'd much rather go to a poll show ID and vote. Its more fun that way anyways.


I don't know which state you live in, but here in Washington the state provides voting ID cards free of charge. Needing an ID for work or government benefits is one thing, but as voting is a right rather than a privilege or a benefit, having to pay for said ID when it's economically painful for the poor obviously hinders that right.
As for the price of gun licenses going up to a degree that poor and middle class gun owners can't afford them - that's the first I've ever heard of such a thing. Has anyone else, right or left, ever complained about this?


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22 Mar 2014, 10:11 am

Pot....kettle....black.

So, conservatives wanting ID checks at polling places is voter suppression?

Even though you have places in the USA where DEAD PEOPLE are still voting.

Even though you have people who saw and reported FIRST HAND that people were bussed in with no ID but a name on a piece of paper in their possession with which they got their ballot (didn't know their own names...really).

Even though you have how many things in life where you MUST have your photo ID with you so the number of people who WOULD NOT be able to have a photo ID with them when they go to vote is pretty much non-existent (especially since such a law can provide the DMV providing a free ID card for such people).

HOWEVER....

Democrats using GERRYMANDERING to increase concentrations of Democrats in a district to ensure victories for their party (which is illegal) IS NOT suppressing the will of voters.

Black Panthers showing up and intimidating voters in key districts IS NOT voter suppression (I suppose because the DOJ refused to investigate the documented reports).

And, of course, the dead people voting doesn't count.



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22 Mar 2014, 10:44 am

zer0netgain wrote:
Pot....kettle....black.

So, conservatives wanting ID checks at polling places is voter suppression?

Even though you have how many things in life where you MUST have your photo ID with you so the number of people who WOULD NOT be able to have a photo ID with them when they go to vote is pretty much non-existent (especially since such a law can provide the DMV providing a free ID card for such people).


The ID laws are tailor-made to exclude any form of ID that a Democratic voter might use, such as a student ID. By the way, have you been to a DMV in the last INFINITY years? I don't have all day to spend waiting to jump through bureaucratic hoops just so I can vote, because I've got **** to do. If you're working 80 hours a week, you definitely don't have time.



Quote:
Democrats using GERRYMANDERING to increase concentrations of Democrats in a district to ensure victories for their party (which is illegal) IS NOT suppressing the will of voters.


Might want to hold off on playing the Gerrymandering card, since actually prosecuting people for doing it would inordinately affect one party in particular. Hint: It's not the Democratic Party. http://election.princeton.edu/2012/12/3 ... o-it-myth/

Quote:
Black Panthers showing up and intimidating voters in key districts IS NOT voter suppression (I suppose because the DOJ refused to investigate the documented reports).


Oh no, black people with sunglasses outside of a couple of polling stations in 2008. Help, they're sunglassing at me menacingly!



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22 Mar 2014, 12:11 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
As for the price of gun licenses going up to a degree that poor and middle class gun owners can't afford them - that's the first I've ever heard of such a thing. Has anyone else, right or left, ever complained about this?


Yes, actually. From labeling inexpensive firearms "Saturday Night Specials" (a name with racist origins, btw) and banning them to increasingly expensive FOID requirements (over $300 in NYC if you're connected enough to get one), the left has no problem at all with imposing a significant cost on a constitutional right. Quite a bit of gun control is also grounded in racism, from the Sullivan Act in New York that was intended to disarm Jews and Italians to Ronald Reagan's California gun laws targeting the Black Panthers, the two are fairly intertwined.


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22 Mar 2014, 2:42 pm

I hate to break it to you but there is no mathematically sound way of modeling representation, or voter will. Not only is it qualitative, and transitive, it is impossible to quantity even statistically.

You have electoral colleges, but there are infinite ways to do it, which will have different results.

That's not to say there is better alternative to voting. Just that it is the is the fairest way you can generate a result.



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22 Mar 2014, 3:21 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for the price of gun licenses going up to a degree that poor and middle class gun owners can't afford them - that's the first I've ever heard of such a thing. Has anyone else, right or left, ever complained about this?


Yes, actually. From labeling inexpensive firearms "Saturday Night Specials" (a name with racist origins, btw) and banning them to increasingly expensive FOID requirements (over $300 in NYC if you're connected enough to get one), the left has no problem at all with imposing a significant cost on a constitutional right. Quite a bit of gun control is also grounded in racism, from the Sullivan Act in New York that was intended to disarm Jews and Italians to Ronald Reagan's California gun laws targeting the Black Panthers, the two are fairly intertwined.


I've never heard of the Sullivan Act. When was that enacted?


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