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tarantella64
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06 Apr 2014, 2:27 am

honestly, the subtitle of this forum torques me off more every time I see it. A place where women can feel safe to be themselves? Why isn't this *all* the spaces on this site? If there are parts of WP where women consistently feel unsafe, then that's a mod problem, not a women's problem.



hurtloam
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06 Apr 2014, 3:16 am

This title has been irking people for the past two years that I have been a member. It has never been changed. That is why I said on another thread it feels like Wrongplanet is a derelict house that we have found to play in. All the old paintwork is still there and we are like Lord of the Flies and making our own rules up for how we behave. I'm not saying that's good or bad, it's just how it appears to me.



spongy
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06 Apr 2014, 5:07 am

Nobody is happy with the title as you can see at the stickies at the top of this section. It causes confusion on wether males can see threads on this section...

However the only person that is able to change descriptions is alex(website owner) and he has other priorities so the chance of him updating the section description is extremely slim.



Waterfalls
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06 Apr 2014, 8:05 am

It does seem to me that some people like to argue, maybe even need to argue. Are you referring to something specific? The moderators respond to you if you PM that somebody did something that makes you feel unsafe.

I was looking at a thread last night where someone called a pretty new teen on something. And people veered into criticizing the OP. It didn't seem right to me so I posted something, and it veered back into something that seemed ok to me You're incredibly outspoken, if you see something where you feel people aren't being treated right, I've seen you make a positive suggestion, and I guess I don't understand. I see ther people do what I did quite a lot, it's what a lot of us wish someone had done for us. It's something you seem direct enough and able to think fast enough that you could do quite well. So I guess I am wondering, is this a theoretical question? In which case isn't the answer that WP caters to a wide spectrum of people? Or a specific question in which case the answer would seem to be you taking action to help someone feel safe or notifying a moderator.

I guess with all the bullying so many of us have experienced, and you've referred to yourself going through, too, it seems to me either I'm missing the big picture here, or this is worth taking a different tactic. Really not trying to argue with you here, Tarantella. Just confused and want to understand.



GivePeaceAChance
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06 Apr 2014, 9:43 am

the problem is one I see commonly - people refusing to follow internet/forum protocols and in doing so essentially becoming trolls (some do this on purpose just because they really like making others miserable)

you are supposed to stay on topic and post in the correct areas, they refuse to do so.

I have no problem with men who want to learn about womyns problems, what I have a problem with is men telling my that I am the problem in the space set aside for me discussing my life. You want to blame womyn for the worlds problems go to an MRA or MRM page/forum or anywhere on Reddit


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spongy
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06 Apr 2014, 11:10 am

GivePeaceAChance wrote:
the problem is one I see commonly - people refusing to follow internet/forum protocols and in doing so essentially becoming trolls (some do this on purpose just because they really like making others miserable)

you are supposed to stay on topic and post in the correct areas, they refuse to do so.

I have no problem with men who want to learn about womyns problems, what I have a problem with is men telling my that I am the problem in the space set aside for me discussing my life. You want to blame womyn for the worlds problems go to an MRA or MRM page/forum or anywhere on Reddit


Is it really that much to ask people to read the first post at the sticky threads ?

Anyhow
From here : http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4194364.html#4194364
Quote:
Its meant to be a place where females can feel free to discuss any issue they wish(as long as they are respecting the opposite gender which is a requirement on this site´s rules) and any male can give their input as long as they are trying to be helpfull/supportive


I personally do not watch this section unless there is some heavy discussion but if you see anything that doesnt fall under the described above you are all welcome to approach puddingmouse(female mod) or to make a public request on the mod attention thread



tarantella64
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06 Apr 2014, 2:01 pm

Waterfalls wrote:
It does seem to me that some people like to argue, maybe even need to argue. Are you referring to something specific? The moderators respond to you if you PM that somebody did something that makes you feel unsafe.

I was looking at a thread last night where someone called a pretty new teen on something. And people veered into criticizing the OP. It didn't seem right to me so I posted something, and it veered back into something that seemed ok to me You're incredibly outspoken, if you see something where you feel people aren't being treated right, I've seen you make a positive suggestion, and I guess I don't understand. I see ther people do what I did quite a lot, it's what a lot of us wish someone had done for us. It's something you seem direct enough and able to think fast enough that you could do quite well. So I guess I am wondering, is this a theoretical question? In which case isn't the answer that WP caters to a wide spectrum of people? Or a specific question in which case the answer would seem to be you taking action to help someone feel safe or notifying a moderator.

I guess with all the bullying so many of us have experienced, and you've referred to yourself going through, too, it seems to me either I'm missing the big picture here, or this is worth taking a different tactic. Really not trying to argue with you here, Tarantella. Just confused and want to understand.


Hi, Waterfalls -

I actually stay away from the fora where MRAs and casual objectification of women are out in force, because (a) there's no point in my fighting it when mods are so very slow to see sexism, and (b) the women who do fight it seem just to get steamrolled with, well, sexualized shit-flinging. I'll fight, but not where it's useless. But the very fact that women have to have a (supposedly) "safe space" in which we can talk openly without getting attacked just points up how much the rest of WP is not a safe space. And that's a real problem, particularly as more women are diagnosed.

It's not a problem that'll get fixed unless it's a priority of Alex's, either. It's his site, so unless he's choosing mods who will forcefully squash sexism and sexualized attacks on women who post, nothing happens. But if no one is complaining, and if the complaints are not sort of relentless, he's got no reason to believe there's a problem. Particularly if he himself is a bit numb to sexism (as apparently he is, because why else set up a forum with this subtitle)?

I mean unless what he really wants is for someone else to run a separate site run for and by women, which I think is undesirable for a bunch of reasons, then the issue will have to be addressed.



Waterfalls
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06 Apr 2014, 2:09 pm

Thank you Tarantella. I understand better now.



hurtloam
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06 Apr 2014, 2:49 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
Particularly if he himself is a bit numb to sexism (as apparently he is, because why else set up a forum with this subtitle)?


I think that you are taking the blurb about this part of the forum too literally. It was never meant to mean "this is the only safe space for women to talk without being shouted down."

I think that all the little bits of blurb about the sub-sections were just brief little descriptions about the sort of content that goes in them. Some of the descriptions aren't very good. I don't think that means there is some dark ulterior motive behind them.

I think what was meant was just: "if you want to talk about periods and breasts and things men don't have then post it in here so that you can talk to other women about it because this sub-forum is a place designated for talking about women's stuff." It's just a box to put things in with a big label on it. Like the Love and Dating section is supposed to be for stuff about love and dating. You wouldn't post stuff about how to deal with PMS symptoms in there.
This is the box you put that stuff in. That's all it means.



GivePeaceAChance
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06 Apr 2014, 6:44 pm

spongy wrote:
GivePeaceAChance wrote:
the problem is one I see commonly - people refusing to follow internet/forum protocols and in doing so essentially becoming trolls (some do this on purpose just because they really like making others miserable)

you are supposed to stay on topic and post in the correct areas, they refuse to do so.

I have no problem with men who want to learn about womyns problems, what I have a problem with is men telling my that I am the problem in the space set aside for me discussing my life. You want to blame womyn for the worlds problems go to an MRA or MRM page/forum or anywhere on Reddit


Is it really that much to ask people to read the first post at the sticky threads ?

Anyhow
From here : http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4194364.html#4194364



from the way some of them act in this space, yes it does seem too troublesome to them


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tarantella64
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06 Apr 2014, 8:41 pm

hurtloam wrote:

I think what was meant was just: "if you want to talk about periods and breasts and things men don't have then post it in here so that you can talk to other women about it because this sub-forum is a place designated for talking about women's stuff." It's just a box to put things in with a big label on it. Like the Love and Dating section is supposed to be for stuff about love and dating. You wouldn't post stuff about how to deal with PMS symptoms in there.
This is the box you put that stuff in. That's all it means.


Why wouldn't you talk about these things in love/dating? PMS can be hell on relationships & feelings of attractiveness, and it also affects sexuality and how sex feels. Would I actually want to do that there, no, because the likelihood of disrespect happening is pretty high.

You've actually identified the problem pretty plainly: the rest of the site is, by default, for "man things", so come whisper about your "lady things" in this corner over here. Which is the problem with "women's _____" in general.



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07 Apr 2014, 4:21 am

GivePeaceAChance wrote:
You want to blame womyn for the worlds problems go to an MRA or MRM page/forum or anywhere on Reddit


That's actually a terrible idea. It will fuel their misogynism and we really don't want more of that anywhere.

tarantella64 wrote:

I actually stay away from the fora where MRAs and casual objectification of women are out in force, because (a) there's no point in my fighting it when mods are so very slow to see sexism, and (b) the women who do fight it seem just to get steamrolled with, well, sexualized sh**-flinging. I'll fight, but not where it's useless. But the very fact that women have to have a (supposedly) "safe space" in which we can talk openly without getting attacked just points up how much the rest of WP is not a safe space. And that's a real problem, particularly as more women are diagnosed.


THIS. Women are put down all the time in Love & Dating and it's just accepted as the norm. You get people trying to explain and they are never listened to.

tarantella64 wrote:
Why wouldn't you talk about these things in love/dating? PMS can be hell on relationships & feelings of attractiveness, and it also affects sexuality and how sex feels. Would I actually want to do that there, no, because the likelihood of disrespect happening is pretty high.

You've actually identified the problem pretty plainly: the rest of the site is, by default, for "man things", so come whisper about your "lady things" in this corner over here. Which is the problem with "women's _____" in general.


This too.



GivePeaceAChance
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07 Apr 2014, 8:10 am

smudge wrote:
GivePeaceAChance wrote:
You want to blame womyn for the worlds problems go to an MRA or MRM page/forum or anywhere on Reddit


That's actually a terrible idea. It will fuel their misogynism and we really don't want more of that anywhere.


haters are going to hate, better they do it in their space than mine. I have this attitude towards MRA's in feminist space, Fundamentalists in my QUILTBAG spaces , deniers in my Climate Change spaces, and Tea partiers in my private political spaces - I am not going to force how I live on them, I jsut want them to give me the same respect.


smudge wrote:
tarantella64 wrote:

I actually stay away from the fora where MRAs and casual objectification of women are out in force, because (a) there's no point in my fighting it when mods are so very slow to see sexism, and (b) the women who do fight it seem just to get steamrolled with, well, sexualized sh**-flinging. I'll fight, but not where it's useless. But the very fact that women have to have a (supposedly) "safe space" in which we can talk openly without getting attacked just points up how much the rest of WP is not a safe space. And that's a real problem, particularly as more women are diagnosed.


THIS. Women are put down all the time in Love & Dating and it's just accepted as the norm. You get people trying to explain and they are never listened to

tarantella64 wrote:
Why wouldn't you talk about these things in love/dating? PMS can be hell on relationships & feelings of attractiveness, and it also affects sexuality and how sex feels. Would I actually want to do that there, no, because the likelihood of disrespect happening is pretty high.

You've actually identified the problem pretty plainly: the rest of the site is, by default, for "man things", so come whisper about your "lady things" in this corner over here. Which is the problem with "women's _____" in general.


This too.



you just backed my previous point


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09 Apr 2014, 3:26 am

OK PMS wasn't the best example. There are no rules that say you can't talk about it or other female-specific issues in other parts of the site. There is no policy where women are to stay quiet unless they post their issues in here.

The fact is that men and women have different bodies and therefore have different specific things they want to discuss about them.

However, this is a section that women might like to post in if they want to signal that they want to talk to mostly other women about something. Or if women are scanning the subjects from the main page they can click on here if they specifically want to help other women out with stuff.

There is no hidden agenda.



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09 Apr 2014, 6:06 am

personally, I never feel safe to be myself around other people. Ya'll are generally self serving bunch and my own needs and safety always come second or third to whatever anyone's personal agenda may be.

Feeling safe is a luxury I've never experienced.



tarantella64
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09 Apr 2014, 9:59 am

hurtloam wrote:
OK PMS wasn't the best example. There are no rules that say you can't talk about it or other female-specific issues in other parts of the site. There is no policy where women are to stay quiet unless they post their issues in here.

The fact is that men and women have different bodies and therefore have different specific things they want to discuss about them.

However, this is a section that women might like to post in if they want to signal that they want to talk to mostly other women about something. Or if women are scanning the subjects from the main page they can click on here if they specifically want to help other women out with stuff.

There is no hidden agenda.


Okay, and women need to congregate off in a corner to talk about lady things because....Or in order to help other women because....

You know, if I want to help a woman with something...I'm having trouble here understanding why she shouldn't, say, post in Jobs, or Love/Dating, and I just...go ahead and help her out right there. Unless the reason's that we're likely to get attacked with a lot of sexist/sexualized hurr-hurr-hurr fappage.