cons. vs. lib. strict father model vs. nurturer/parent model

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heavenlyabyss
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09 Apr 2014, 10:51 pm

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/467716.html

Will probably cause a flame war, but the hope is that maybe one side can learn about the other. If you want to skip to the basic claim, it's about halfway down the page. It's basically just a theory of the differences between how conservatives and liberals view the world and I why they are always shouting past each other without understanding the other side.



LoveNotHate
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09 Apr 2014, 11:04 pm

I think the author should of differentiated neoconservatives from libertarian ("old school conservatives").

The libertarian ("old school conservatives") will likely admit that the neoconservatives are hypocrites.



luanqibazao
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09 Apr 2014, 11:07 pm

Quote:
What we have here are two different forms of family-based morality. What links them to politics is a common understanding of the nation as a family, with the government as parent.


Ick. :eew:



heavenlyabyss
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10 Apr 2014, 2:17 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
I think the author should of differentiated neoconservatives from libertarian ("old school conservatives").

The libertarian ("old school conservatives") will likely admit that the neoconservatives are hypocrites.


Well, he may in his book but unfortunately I don't have the book.

It's speaking largely in general terms. It's a given that people aren't going to fit perfectly into one category or another. I don't want to start a debate about that.

But I think it is a very interesting and novel idea to look at the government as a "parent" figure. Also, as the guy above me pointed out, a little gross... lol

When our "parents" (the government) are fighting with each other all the time, it leaves the rest of the country confused and disenchanted. Anyway, you have to read the full article for it to really make sense.



adb
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10 Apr 2014, 10:56 am

The best book I've read about understanding opposing political views is Jonathan Haidt's "The Righteous Mind".

He's a liberal, moral psychologist who did empirical research and came up with some interesting conclusions that provide great insight into understanding why we view the world so differently.



heavenlyabyss
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11 Apr 2014, 6:23 am

adb wrote:
The best book I've read about understanding opposing political views is Jonathan Haidt's "The Righteous Mind".

He's a liberal, moral psychologist who did empirical research and came up with some interesting conclusions that provide great insight into understanding why we view the world so differently.


That looks like a good book. I skimmed through quite a bit of it just now (the entire pdf is online)

The concept of the "conservative advantage" is interesting.



sonofghandi
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11 Apr 2014, 10:17 am

adb wrote:
The best book I've read about understanding opposing political views is Jonathan Haidt's "The Righteous Mind".

He's a liberal, moral psychologist who did empirical research and came up with some interesting conclusions that provide great insight into understanding why we view the world so differently.


^loved that one!


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ValentineWiggin
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11 Apr 2014, 2:27 pm

For those who want a preview of Haidt, this is super interesting.

I have a pet theory that on certain aspects, the oft-noted straight-line correlation between conservatives and liberals really looks more like a parabola when radicals are added, because they and conservatives have a morality that's based in a normative imagining of the world, even if they're wildly-different.


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khaoz
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12 Apr 2014, 12:26 am

Wouldn't it be more productive to take more factors into account than just the political affiliations and trying to predict parenting styles based only on that? This seems more like someone trying to steer an argument to a desired conclusion by the writer of the story/article



Awesomelyglorious
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12 Apr 2014, 1:12 pm

The idea of the parenting styles is analogies. George Lakoff thinks that analogies are essential for understanding how the brain handles problem solving. Well, one of the issues here is that he sees an analogy between political views and long-standing parenting styles. So, he thinks that liberals are like one model in terms of how they view the government and conservatives more like another model.

This may have some truth to it, although it's not clear exactly how it will sync up with Haidt's models(they don't strictly contradict, but they weren't built to be explicitly compatible either as Haidt explains some of the same details using a different explanation). I wouldn't be surprised if it is true on some level, but it's sort of a mess. It's not a bad first approximation though, and it relates very well to Thomas Sowell's own model the Constrained vs Unconstrained views: http://www.nku.edu/~gartigw/teaching_fi ... isions.pdf It also relates somewhat well to the model of Right-wing authoritarianism put forward by Bob Altemeyer: https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/ So.... I do get the feeling there is something to it.

Really, there are a number of theories, and a lot of them do relate this back to underlying psychology, which makes sense given the underlying correlations. Some focus on different aspects than others. I can see the utility of Lakoff's and in certain areas it makes more sense, but it's undoubtedly a mess, as it doesn't explicitly include Haidt's findings.



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11 Dec 2016, 12:04 am

It can really be split into two groups.

Would you rather raise a child that was:
Obedient - conservative
Independent - liberal



Raptor
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11 Dec 2016, 12:17 am

feral botanist wrote:
It can really be split into two groups.

Would you rather raise a child that was:
Obedient - conservative
Independent - liberal


Both sides believe in selective or conditional obedience and independence as it suits thier ends.


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traven
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11 Dec 2016, 3:14 am

fake anologies are far more popular to discus
mother can smother and father may take you further, but roles and genders can be everywhere, on a spectrum

also there's city vs country, the worlds population is now over 50% urban, which comes with more problems, and perception problems



feral botanist
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11 Dec 2016, 3:48 am

What happened to the party of WF Buckley jr.?

Of conservatives that believed in science?

The intellectual conservatives?

He wouldnt have recognised what we now call conservative.



auntblabby
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11 Dec 2016, 4:12 am

a very right wing strict disciplinarian created this very left wing nurturer.