Women and men irritate the crap out of eachother!

Page 4 of 6 [ 94 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

28 Apr 2014, 1:42 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpdAcwCaCNQ[/youtube] :lol: This is what its like when a guy enters womens discussion!


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


Hopper
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,908
Location: North Wayels

28 Apr 2014, 2:54 pm

I think the intra-gender competitiveness, and a possible Aspie disinterest in such, is quite important. Here I wonder about social rules that aren't picked up on. That is, that this is not some particular lack of an otherwise innate-to-NTs 'competitiveness' (I feel competitive with myself, wanting to get better at what I value doing, and also look at the artists and intellectuals who I think highly of, and what and how they managed to do and consider my own abilities and achievements against them), but that, as it were, we didn't get the cultural/social memo that we're supposed to give a s**t about competing with others of our gender.

Now, what does that look like to those who are competitive? The aspie here looks aloof, and full of themselves, literally self-satisfied. Why won't you compete? What, you think you're already a winner? etc. The competitive are insecure - it's both why and because they compete. Likely they're going to envy those who aren't insecure. And, if they've ever had doubt as to the sanity of their being competitive, that doubt is surely rubbed in their faces by those who simply won't compete with them. All this does not make for happy times.

I don't feel my interests are particularly female interests, but that, where there is no sharing of interests, it's far easier to get on with women than men - with the caveat that, as I said before, I do struggle to get on with people in general. My experience of men is that they like to talk about the particular qualities of a given thing and have the both of us come to an agreement on said qualities. I likely find the given things boring (cars, sports, 'hot' women, sex, science, other cliches), and have an unfortunately contrarian nature where I'll disagree with someone where I think they're too certain about something (even if it's something I actually agree on). Whereas talking with women it seems to be more nuanced, with more to think and talk about, an allowance of doubt. I like grey areas in thought, as there's less likely to be resolution, which means thinking can continue, which is good because there are some things I like to think about over and over.

I think in part the Aspie experience/preference for the opposite gender here may be because in part there's intra-gender topics that are a given, whereas for inter-gender there aren't such, allowing for greater variety in conversation if those 'given' interests aren't shared. There's less of a given set of topics to fall back on, so our interlocuters have to put more thought into conversation.


_________________
Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


starvingartist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,032

28 Apr 2014, 4:20 pm

Hopper wrote:
I think the intra-gender competitiveness, and a possible Aspie disinterest in such, is quite important. Here I wonder about social rules that aren't picked up on. That is, that this is not some particular lack of an otherwise innate-to-NTs 'competitiveness' (I feel competitive with myself, wanting to get better at what I value doing, and also look at the artists and intellectuals who I think highly of, and what and how they managed to do and consider my own abilities and achievements against them), but that, as it were, we didn't get the cultural/social memo that we're supposed to give a sh** about competing with others of our gender.


i do this, too--sometimes with the result of depressing myself. for example, i often look to van gogh and how productive he was in his (tragically abbreviated) lifetime (2100 works of art, 860 of them paintings, in his 37 years!!) and i want to kick myself for my dearth of fecundity. then i remember that he was working often in full manic-mode (and on little-to-no sleep) without the aid of medication to dull his creative drive, and that lack of medication for his mental illness and the consequent runaway creative drive drove him right into the ground. then i wonder if perhaps "slow and steady wins the race" might be a better reference for me in regards to creative production and my own struggle with mental illness.



AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

28 Apr 2014, 4:38 pm

Sometimes women are meaner to other women than men are especially when it comes to competition and such always trying to one up each other and use sarcasm against each other, they also tend to gang up on each other and kick em when they are down. Stealing boyfriends out of spite and revenge etc etc.


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,647
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

28 Apr 2014, 4:43 pm

Eureka13 wrote:
Basically, what it comes down to for me is that group dynamics are extremely difficult for me, whether it's male or female or mixed-gender groups. At least when I'm in a group of males, they're not (subconsciously) trying to compete with me. Since I don't get the whole social competetiveness thing, this makes it a more comfortable setting for me.

When I say things like I'd rather cut off one of my limbs than be in an all-female group, it's not because I hate them or think they're all worthless b*tches; mainly it's because they usually are interested in talking about typical mainstream interests. Since I have less than zero interest in any of these topics, I can't contribute, so I sit like a lump in the corner while all this completely uninteresting (to me) conversation goes on around me. With a group of men I can always talk about cars or science or sports and find some common ground, or at least some topic where I can join the conversation. If I do happen to find a woman who shares one or more of my interests, I do my best make friends with her. But it's rare to come across a woman like that.

Men I can talk to are much less rare; therefore it's simply easier for me - less of a stretch to my anti-social tendencies. Trying to make conversation is hard enough; when the prevailing conversation is something I know nothing about, it becomes a Catch-22 - the more excluded I feel, the more uncomfortable I am; the more uncomfortable I am, the more excluded I feel.



I am a straight man and I feel exactly the same about women, so it not just a matter of competition; most women's interests are simply meh, let me guess what the topics your female acquaintances talk about: Celebs, guys, other girls, who's dating who, kids/babies, makeup/cosmetic, cosmetic products and photos on facebook/Instagram, am I right?? am I right?? I bet I am right!! :lol: And hey, the younger of them don't even talk or know anything about cooking, one of my favorite interests!

I've only known only one group of women who were slightly different than the typical ones and deeper than that, and I liked two of them, go figure! As if I have some kind of hunger for a deeper woman.

And btw when the typical woman tries to step in to talk about something "intellectual" it usually goes totally disastrous, I recall once I was invited along with my male friend and his wife to a lasagna dinner by a female colleague (and I've found a living baby cockroach crawling from under my plate to my lasagna and pretended I am stuffed at half meal already!) and her sister (she's above 30) once she learned I am agnostic, was trying to venture an "intellectual" conversation with me by trying to disapproving evolution, and she was like "How evolution can be right while my grand grand grand father can't be a dinosaur?" - to my shocking I was like "Huh?" and I was slow to respond to a such question trying to not explode of laughter or something, I mean how comes Charles Darwin didn't even think of this?? LOL. Surprisingly tho, my Christian friend who's not a keen believer in evolution had explained her the gradual process of evolution and told her of polar bears as why they're white as a concrete simple example; I was surprised that he knows all the basics (natural selection/ sexual selection, environment and mutation) which means that he READS ( Even tho she repeated the stupid questions which means that she didn't get his input, he told me later on "she has no freaking idea about the subject so it really can't be discussed with her"). Of course, that's one story, there are many others.

Seriously Eureka, instead of keep telling me that I should never complain about them, you should count your blessings that you don't have to date them, imagine how hard and rare it would be to find someone who shares interests with you or at least someone not so air-headed. Look at your past posts, you and along a lot of women on WP, do complain also about the typical women.


Btw my mother is a genius-level mathématicienne and math teacher, so I wasn't raised by a typical woman.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 28 Apr 2014, 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,647
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

28 Apr 2014, 4:52 pm

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
On the subject of cross gender communication and Aspergers, I couldn't help but notice all the Aspie-like females I know have mostly male friends (and few if any female friends) and all the Aspie-like males have mostly female friends and few if any male friends (like me). I recently met an Aspie male in his mid 20s and you guessed it, all his close friends are female. I've also tried to befriend Aspie males and it has been a monumental failure on both sides. Maybe this has to do with the whole being oblivious to the whole social competitiveness game?

I'm male but I find I feel more at home around females and can generally relate to them better. Probably why it's hard to show off my masculinity in a relationship.



I think this is due to the fact that most aspies fail to retain friendships from school/college to adulthood, whether due to lack of social skills or interest, but when they come to realization that they want a partner they start forming friendships with the opposite gender, resulting a majority of opposite sex friends.



AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

28 Apr 2014, 4:52 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjgkIjQBmA8[/youtube] I think this is one of the main reasons women cannot stand other women. When it comes to hanging out with women I actually feel secure and relax to hang out with are tomboyish or geeky and not superficial. No worrying about catty issues and such or hearing about lame crap like the latest chick flicks gah.


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


Eureka13
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,058
Location: The wilds of Colorado

28 Apr 2014, 5:15 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Eureka13 wrote:
Basically, what it comes down to for me is that group dynamics are extremely difficult for me, whether it's male or female or mixed-gender groups. At least when I'm in a group of males, they're not (subconsciously) trying to compete with me. Since I don't get the whole social competetiveness thing, this makes it a more comfortable setting for me.

When I say things like I'd rather cut off one of my limbs than be in an all-female group, it's not because I hate them or think they're all worthless b*tches; mainly it's because they usually are interested in talking about typical mainstream interests. Since I have less than zero interest in any of these topics, I can't contribute, so I sit like a lump in the corner while all this completely uninteresting (to me) conversation goes on around me. With a group of men I can always talk about cars or science or sports and find some common ground, or at least some topic where I can join the conversation. If I do happen to find a woman who shares one or more of my interests, I do my best make friends with her. But it's rare to come across a woman like that.

Men I can talk to are much less rare; therefore it's simply easier for me - less of a stretch to my anti-social tendencies. Trying to make conversation is hard enough; when the prevailing conversation is something I know nothing about, it becomes a Catch-22 - the more excluded I feel, the more uncomfortable I am; the more uncomfortable I am, the more excluded I feel.



I am a straight man and I feel exactly the same about women, so it not just a matter of competition; most women's interests are simply meh, let me guess what the topics your female acquaintances talk about: Celebs, guys, other girls, who's dating who, kids/babies, makeup/cosmetic, cosmetic products and photos on facebook/Instagram, am I right?? am I right?? I bet I am right!! :lol: And hey, the younger of them don't even talk or know anything about cooking, one of my favorite interests!

I've only known only one group of women who were slightly different than the typical ones and deeper than that, and I liked two of them, go figure! As if I have some kind of hunger for a deeper woman.

And btw when the typical woman tries to step in to talk about something "intellectual" it usually goes totally disastrous, I recall once I was invited along with my male friend and his wife to a lasagna dinner by a female colleague (and I've found a living baby cockroach crawling from under my plate to my lasagna and pretended I am stuffed at half meal already!) and her sister (she's above 30) once she learned I am agnostic, was trying to venture an "intellectual" conversation with me by trying to disapproving evolution, and she was like "How evolution can be right while my grand grand grand father can't be a dinosaur?" - to my shocking I was like "Huh?" and I was slow to respond to a such question trying to not explode of laughter or something, I mean how comes Charles Darwin didn't even think of this?? LOL. Surprisingly tho, my Christian friend who's not a keen believer in evolution had explained her the gradual process of evolution and told her of polar bears as why they're white as a concrete simple example; I was surprised that he knows all the basics (natural selection/ sexual selection, environment and mutation) which means that he READS ( Even tho she repeated the stupid questions which means that she didn't get his input, he told me later on "she has no freaking idea about the subject so it really can't be discussed with her"). Of course, that's one story, there are many others.

Seriously Eureka, instead of keep telling me that I should never complain about them, you should count your blessings that you don't have to date them, imagine how hard and rare it would be to find someone who shares interests with you or at least someone not so air-headed. Look at your past posts, you and along a lot of women on WP, do complain also about the typical women.


Btw my mother is a genius-level mathématicienne and math teacher, so I wasn't raised by a typical woman.


You don't have to date "typical" women, either. Just like I don't have to (and won't) date "typical" men. :lol:

You just always seem to forget that there are plenty of non-typical women, right here on WP. Sadly, it doesn't seem there are many of them where you live. Likewise, there are not very many non-typical men where I live (there are actually more non-typical women than non-typical men in my immediate vicinity, especially among the 25-40-yr-old demographic). As I've said before, stereotypes are not one-size-fit-all, but there is some basis for the stereotypes. Personally, I consider myself lucky to both *be* a non-typical woman and to only be attracted to non-typical men.

I'm glad to hear you're actually more attracted to the smarter, more independent types. Hopefully you'll find one soon. :)



Hopper
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,908
Location: North Wayels

28 Apr 2014, 7:51 pm

The_Face_of_Boo - most 'men's' topics are also meh, no? Cars? Sport? Drinking? 'Hot' women? Women-at-large? An oddly unsexy sexuality? The necessity of convincing me of their masculinity? Their job? Their gym routine? Their gadgets? Their ill considered political opinions? If I do find myself stuck with a similarly stereotypically vacuous woman, at least I'm not expected to share her interests, and she won't take a simmering-with-violence response if I don't agree with her.


_________________
Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


Vomelche
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 789
Location: Ontario

28 Apr 2014, 8:30 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I think this is due to the fact that most aspies fail to retain friendships from school/college to adulthood, whether due to lack of social skills or interest, but when they come to realization that they want a partner they start forming friendships with the opposite gender, resulting a majority of opposite sex friends.


That makes sense to me, we are less likely to socialize with anyone early in life, especially the opposite gender, so we tend to make up for it afterwards, maybe this only goes for men though.

Actually with women I find sometimes you don't even have to talk about anything you can just chill and have fun, which I like. With guys someones always gotta try to be the alpha of the group and talk everyone down.

I think I am more into geeky women myself, since we would have more similar interests. But I am not too selective with people, more easy going with regards to personalities.



Hopper
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,908
Location: North Wayels

28 Apr 2014, 8:35 pm

starvingartist wrote:
Hopper wrote:
I think the intra-gender competitiveness, and a possible Aspie disinterest in such, is quite important. Here I wonder about social rules that aren't picked up on. That is, that this is not some particular lack of an otherwise innate-to-NTs 'competitiveness' (I feel competitive with myself, wanting to get better at what I value doing, and also look at the artists and intellectuals who I think highly of, and what and how they managed to do and consider my own abilities and achievements against them), but that, as it were, we didn't get the cultural/social memo that we're supposed to give a sh** about competing with others of our gender.


i do this, too--sometimes with the result of depressing myself. for example, i often look to van gogh and how productive he was in his (tragically abbreviated) lifetime (2100 works of art, 860 of them paintings, in his 37 years!!) and i want to kick myself for my dearth of fecundity. then i remember that he was working often in full manic-mode (and on little-to-no sleep) without the aid of medication to dull his creative drive, and that lack of medication for his mental illness and the consequent runaway creative drive drove him right into the ground. then i wonder if perhaps "slow and steady wins the race" might be a better reference for me in regards to creative production and my own struggle with mental illness.



Oh, definitely.

For a while in my youth I was obsessed with the life and work of Nick Drake. His songwriting and guitar playing was phenomenal - he was dead at 26, pretty much creatively finished by 23. On the 'happier' side, I'll hold Ryan Adams' output from about '95 to '08 as mercurial in both output and quality and he is, at least, still alive and working, if calmer.

Van Gogh was Van Gogh. Only we can be who we are, and there's worth in that.


_________________
Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


starvingartist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,032

28 Apr 2014, 10:06 pm

Hopper wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
Hopper wrote:
I think the intra-gender competitiveness, and a possible Aspie disinterest in such, is quite important. Here I wonder about social rules that aren't picked up on. That is, that this is not some particular lack of an otherwise innate-to-NTs 'competitiveness' (I feel competitive with myself, wanting to get better at what I value doing, and also look at the artists and intellectuals who I think highly of, and what and how they managed to do and consider my own abilities and achievements against them), but that, as it were, we didn't get the cultural/social memo that we're supposed to give a sh** about competing with others of our gender.


i do this, too--sometimes with the result of depressing myself. for example, i often look to van gogh and how productive he was in his (tragically abbreviated) lifetime (2100 works of art, 860 of them paintings, in his 37 years!!) and i want to kick myself for my dearth of fecundity. then i remember that he was working often in full manic-mode (and on little-to-no sleep) without the aid of medication to dull his creative drive, and that lack of medication for his mental illness and the consequent runaway creative drive drove him right into the ground. then i wonder if perhaps "slow and steady wins the race" might be a better reference for me in regards to creative production and my own struggle with mental illness.



Oh, definitely.

For a while in my youth I was obsessed with the life and work of Nick Drake. His songwriting and guitar playing was phenomenal - he was dead at 26, pretty much creatively finished by 23. On the 'happier' side, I'll hold Ryan Adams' output from about '95 to '08 as mercurial in both output and quality and he is, at least, still alive and working, if calmer.

Van Gogh was Van Gogh. Only we can be who we are, and there's worth in that.


i discovered nick drake's music about 10 years ago and i've loved it ever since--it's some of the most hauntingly beautiful music i've ever heard. when i subsequently looked him up on wikipedia i wasn't exactly surprised by his story, as his music has such a profound sadness and loneliness to it (but also a quiet joy, sometimes); still it broke my heart to read about his life. thank god we had him though, even for such a short time.



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

28 Apr 2014, 11:38 pm

Hopper wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo - most 'men's' topics are also meh, no? Cars? Sport? Drinking? 'Hot' women? Women-at-large? An oddly unsexy sexuality? The necessity of convincing me of their masculinity? Their job? Their gym routine? Their gadgets? Their ill considered political opinions? If I do find myself stuck with a similarly stereotypically vacuous woman, at least I'm not expected to share her interests, and she won't take a simmering-with-violence response if I don't agree with her.

Stereotypically gender-specific topics tend to bore me. I enjoy the company of people who are androgynous in their mental style and interests. People with depth.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,647
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

29 Apr 2014, 2:37 pm

Hopper wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo - most 'men's' topics are also meh, no? Cars? Sport? Drinking? 'Hot' women? Women-at-large? An oddly unsexy sexuality? The necessity of convincing me of their masculinity? Their job? Their gym routine? Their gadgets? Their ill considered political opinions? If I do find myself stuck with a similarly stereotypically vacuous woman, at least I'm not expected to share her interests, and she won't take a simmering-with-violence response if I don't agree with her.


Nope, you are talking about the typical macho men, but remember!! Nerdy and geeky guys are way more common than geeky women! So it wouldn't be hard to have a such bunch of nerdy guys.

these aren't the topics I talk about with my male friends, casually they might talk about some hot woman or cars; the spoken topics are mostly: any kind of scientific discoveries, last books, technology - in depth, religious/social criticism, gadgets (yes, I love that too), manipulating some gadgets, specific things or incidents at work, non-typical tv shows like Discovery shows, some movie, games ...etc.

There are plenty of things they talk about, of course not every one of them initiate to talk about all these things, but when we're all together we talk about these things.



Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 14,217
Location: Aux Arcs

29 Apr 2014, 5:43 pm

One version of hell would be me stuck in a car,headed to the mall,pop music is playing,with a bunch of women talking about diets,make up,shoes,celebrities,how their boy friends or husbands are annoying and don't pay attention to them,chick flicks,gossip,hair styles,and *gasp*,how they feel.I'd want to jump out when they pulled up at the first stop light.
A past female friend once called me on the phone to proudly announce that she had just done her laundry,now why would anyone call someone to tell them that?Why would I care?Sure call me if you just read a great book,saw some cool event,or your dog died,but not to tell me about laundry day.Later she dropped me as a friend and I was so relieved.She told me I was a "bad friend."Whatever.


_________________
"Security is mostly a superstition.It does not exist in nature,nor do the children of men as a whole experience it.Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure.Life is either a daring adventure,or nothing." Helen Keller


Hopper
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,908
Location: North Wayels

29 Apr 2014, 7:37 pm

starvingartist wrote:
i discovered nick drake's music about 10 years ago and i've loved it ever since--it's some of the most hauntingly beautiful music i've ever heard. when i subsequently looked him up on wikipedia i wasn't exactly surprised by his story, as his music has such a profound sadness and loneliness to it (but also a quiet joy, sometimes); still it broke my heart to read about his life. thank god we had him though, even for such a short time.


I read a really glowing review of the mix/sampler album Way To Blue in 1999 and picked it up, and was bowled over by it. It opens with Cello Song, and that opening cascade of guitar swept me away. It's music that seems quite timeless, elemental. There was quiet joy, for sure. Wry humour, too - Poor Boy, for one.

Do you know Tom Mcrae? He's pretty good. You might like him. He's also come to bear an uncanny resemblance to Sean Bean.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c16IRivE09w[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7DWH8WU5qw[/youtube]


_________________
Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.