Does your aspergers child try to control you?

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My daughter is 13 and she feels the need to control her twin sister and I all of the time. It is getting to the point that I feel like I am the teenager and she is the mom. Whatever I do seems to get her anxious and I get more lectures than I ever did from my own parents. Like I found this website that I enjoy shopping at and I get deals up to 80% off. I have bought a few things in the past month and now my aspie daughter is telling me I don't need these things and I have to stop. I tried to reassure her that our bills are all paid, we are not in debt and the fridge is full and she has all her needs met, so I can buy myself things if I want to.

She also tries to stop me from being with my boyfriend. We have been together for two years and she really likes him when she sees him because he treats her good and is always nice and friendly with her, even when she is not at her best. We do fun things with him like play badminton and basketball, watch movies, play video games and other things she really enjoys. We have a schedule of him coming over on Tuesday and Thursday evenings and I go to his place on Saturday or Sunday evening for a few hours, depending on if he has his daughter. On the nights he is coming over, she will complain that she doesn't want to see him and doesn't feel like company and why do I have to see him so often. But if I am going to his place for a few hours, she wonders why I have to go to his place and why do I want a break.

She also tries to control her sister all the time too, to the point that their friends at school think it is good they will be in separate schools next year. They wonder how her twin can handle the constant yelling and criticism. She tries to tell her what she should wear, what things she can join at school, who they will hang out, when she will do her chores, if she can go to the library, what she can eat, etc.

It just never ends and it really drives my NT daughter and I nuts. We realize she is trying to control her anxiety by controlling her environment, but it's not fun to spend forever explaining yourself to her and why it is okay to be doing whatever you want to be doing. I am trying to teach her that the world does not revolve around her. A lot of times it does revolve around her though because it seems better to just keep her happy, than to set her off. But at times, anything can set her off.

It is not just a control the environment thing, although that is a huge component of it. Some of it is that they really do believe they know better than everyone else and that others would benefit from their wisdom.

As far as the boyfriend thing -- I think it is normal even for NT kids to have ambivalent feelings about their parents dating even if they like the person. It is natural to want your parents to yourself--that is a part of sibling rivalry, after all.

NT kids are more likely (again assuming they like the person) to successfully move past those feelings b/c they know the socially approved thing is to demonstrate that you are happy that your parent is happy with someone else. An aspie is not going to care that this is the socially-sanctioned response.

Regarding your purchases, a couple of things could be going on. One is that if at any point if she ever thought you were low on money she may have anxiety now if she thinks you are overspending. It doesn't matter to her that you are not currently low on funds. This is money you could be saving for a rainy day, in her mind. the other thing is, if she is accustomed to hearing "that is too expensive" with regard to things she wants---she may think if you curb your spending on yourself, she will get more stuff.

Does the fact that there is a logic behind it mean you have to put up with it? No. Understanding the root may help in deciding how to talk about it. My son also likes to control things to feel safe and comfortable. Sometimes we humor it, and sometimes we don't depending on how much anxiety is tied up into it..

You can't let them do it all the time b/c it makes it hard to teach it later. Honestly who really wants to live under his/her kid's thumb. right?

I am not a big "respect my authority" kind of person and that is certainly not a successful way to deal with my son, That said, every now and then I will let him know he is not the boss of everyone, when he gets too bossy. He knows we are in charge, even if we do not rub it in his face, and he will back off if he can. If he is overly anxious of course nothing works.

DS is like this at times, though he is only eight. We have to be very direct, very blunt with him to get him to stop. Sometimes when he can't seem to stop, we send him to his room (which doesn't seem to upset him at all). Even then, he will often walk out of the room still issuing directions or advice over his shoulder.

I am so relieved to know that this is totally her just being aspie. I have been combing through posts on wrong planet hoping that other parents were going through the same thing too.

ASD mommy - that is so funny about how "we would benefit from their wisdom" That is exactly how she makes me feel, that am just so wrong not to be listening to her at all times. It's true that even my NT daughter gets moments when she is glad it isn't a night my boyfriend is coming over. But she ends up arguing with her sister too when my aspie daughter is getting too controlling about my relationship. As for the money thing, I think you are right about her thinking there will be more things bought for her if I don't spend it on myself.

So I guess this is something she will do forever - maybe arguing with her to get her to see my side helps in the long wrong so she can eventually see my side. At times I really try to ignore her, but she will follow me around really fixated on what she thinks I am doing wrong and I can't even watch tv without her interuptions. I do tell her often that I am the parent and she is the child, not the other way around.

Yippy Skippy - that is too cute "issuing directions and advice over his shoulder". I wish I could get her to go to her room, but when fixated, she will follow me even into the bathroom to let me know what she thinks.

You really gotta see the humour. One thing I am glad now is since her diagnosis I have an explanation for these behaviours. I couldn't joke about it with anyone because I thought I was doing something wrong with my parenting to make her this way. I would never let anyone at work know about her meltdowns etc. because I felt they reflected badly on me. But now that I know she is just being autistic and it is the way she is, it really does help some.

A lot of it has to do with hierarchy blindness. Aspies tend to view all people as more-or-less equal in social value. (NTs, on the other hand, have a set of unwritten rules determining who's higher-ranking and who's lower, based on age, sex, occupation, social skills, setting, and numerous other factors.) So your daughter, unaware of her own social rank, tries to control you and your boyfriend. For the lack of a better term, she doesn't realize that she's "just a child". So she tries to copy the behavior of adults she observed, her family or otherwise. I've made these mistakes when I was little, and got all sorts of "compliments" and punishments for doing that. And by "compliments", I mean things like "who do you think you are?", "you're a child, you have no right to tell people what to do!", etc.

I'd like to give some suggestions, but sorry, I got nothing. There is no nice way to tell an aspie child, who already feels low on the totem pole in the society at large, that they are "less than" the adults in their life.

Personally, I don't mind DS giving advice to me - just not relentlessly when I have asked him to stop.
Usually, the reason I've asked him to stop is one of the following:
1 I already know the information.
2 He doesn't know what he's talking about.
3 He is not the person to whom I'm speaking.
4 He's talking when we're trying to watch a movie.

None of these reasons have to do with social hierarchy. I am also aspie and don't divide the world that way.

I have a 6 year old who definitely is controlling of me. I am afraid it will get worse as he gets older. I can't wear lipstick! I think it started as sensory issue for him if I kiss him with lipstick on. But now he says "you are beautiful without lipstick. I like you just the way you are". Ahhhh, what do I say to that! He tries to control what I eat, example wanting to decide what flavor icecream I pick. He wants to control when I can take a shower or talk on the phone. If I do these things without giving him advance notice it is a huge meltdown and a lot of anxiety and anger involved. I am homeschooling him now and find we have our best days when I let him feel he is choosing what we are going to learn that day. I am trying to do the best I can. If it's little things that I don't care too much about and won't cause him harm I usually do it to keep peace. Glad to know I am not alone!

The more my son feels the world around him makes no sense, and the more he is stressed by it, the more control he tries to exert on the things he thinks he can control. It is a very simple formula for him, a reaction to a world that is overwhelming and defeating him.

Long run, you solve the control need by solving the problems. Short run, I found it helpful to remember that it rarely was actually about the thing trying to be controlled. Instead, I would divert from what was going on, pull my son aside, and focus on him. Change the topic, chat casually about his day and feelings, share a self-calming activity, or do whatever it took to get him relaxed and out of the rigid mode he was in. Definitely get fully out of confrontation and resist mode. Usually that time was all it took to get him to let go of whatever he had been focused on. If not, he was better able to explain what was driving his request.

A quick thought on the buying - many with ASD find clutter upsetting. She may not be worried about money so much as overwhelmed by the volume of stuff. Stuff creates stress. Stuff requires maintenance, causes disorder, and drains energy. For some people the need to live simply and with minimal extras is quite huge. Your daughter may not realize what her own issue with it is; it could just be that "things" stress her. Hard to explain, my husband is definitely like that.




Edited to enhance since was time pressed the first run.

Aspie1, thank you for confirming that... It is easy to feel that it is a lack of respect, but it makes perfect sense. Do we really need as much hierarchy as NTs create? Do parents really know more about everything? I've always been suspicious of the idea that kids should do things we tell them just because we're the parents, but my other kids let me get away with that occasionally. I don't think my DD on the spectrum would ever go for that. If I ask her to do something, there has to be a reason. And if I do something, I often have to give her a reason, too.

I find that my daughter has become less controlling as I have become more willing to engage with her on a more mature level. She is often absolutely right and very insightful, and her logic is much more sound than mine. So I answer her questions calmly and show interest in her responses, instead of telling her implicitly or explicitly that she should be quiet now, or it's none of her business. (After all, we give lots of advice to them, don't we?) A couple of years ago I got to thinking that I helped interpret the world for her, and became more willing to start and continue lengthy conversations about why and how I made decisions or behaved a particular way. Sometimes kids on the spectrum need more explanations before they completely understand. Giving your child a lot of simple choices or input into your choices can also help. I love asking my DD what I should wear, whether my makeup looks ok, etc.

J.

...hmmm...I see that as a bit of social learning, myself! Possibly, he has figured out that that is a socially acceptable way to get you to stop wearing lipstick...quite sophisticated, I think!

My daughter is bossy. And she tends to think she is smarter than everyone (and with people her age, she often is). The kicker for me is that she can readily identify this behavior in others, explain why they do it, what they should do instead, but when it comes to herself...TOTAL mindblindness. Cannot see it. It is probably the most frustrating part about her for me. Not the bossiness as much as the idea that she is always right and knows more than everyone else.

I do think a lot of it has to do with the social heirarchy thing. My son was able to pick this up once it was explained to him, because he is very accepting of the fact that he can be socially clueless. So he is more than happy for me to load him up with a bunch of rote rules so he can navigate (for example "Grown-ups, especially teachers, do not appreciate being told they are wrong by children, particularly in front of the entire class.") He will be the first to explain that he thought he was being helpful, but once he is told the rule, he doesn't care to understand why or argue against it, he just accepts it as the rule and adjusts his behavior accordingly. My daughter, on the other hand, will try to argue until she "wins." She can't stop herself and no amount of telling her that this is viewed negatively by others will help her.

So while I do think it is an "aspie thing," I also think it is a "temperament thing."

...at least you have anxiety to pin it to...my daughter shows no signs of anxiety. She's just bossy.

After tonight's meltdown I have decided it is time to whip out the Social Thinking stuff again. We definitely had an attack of Rock Brain tonight, with more than a hint of Glass Man. (www.socialthinking.com)

That comment made me realize that, duh, girls do tend to be bossy (broad generalization, not all kids are the same, of course). Their ages and stages are different than with boys, and bossiness is definitely among them, based on what I have seen with my NT daughter. In a different way than my son would try to be. No doubt even an Aspie girl has noticed this is how other girls often act. Must be interesting raising an Aspie girl, because you are going to get a mix of reasons for the behavior most likely.

You may have to have multiple ways of handling it, and may need to sort out the different types.

On the other topic, I really don't push my authority around with my kids simply because I get much better results when we all talk logically with each other, and that includes my NT daughter. But I have explained the concept of authority and why it is needed, plus when and when not to follow it. There have been times I've had to pull rank, obviously, but I don't find it to be a good way to teach. This is very different than the much aligned "trying to be friends with your kids" concept, just clarifying for any readers ready to discount what I say thinking I am "one of those."

Yes, my aspergers child tries to be the boss of everything and everyone!

I am an aspie daughter and it looks like I was bossy for my whole life. So it is really an aspie thing? I didn't realize that...

My mom seem to deal with it just fine and I never seen any issue with telling her what to do - for me she is kinda like a child herself. She spends too much money, doesn't care of herself (and doesn't realize the symptoms, for example she was thinking she ate something bad while she got a common stomach flue - she didn't believe it even when me and my dad got same thing after a few days and when I told her to drink some coca-cola which is a common cure for this sickness and it helped...), do stupid things (she cleans the floor and THEN starts cleaning the shelves so the floor gets dirty again) and she can't even change a lightbulb by herself because she doesn't know which one to buy. It's not like she is stupid - she is just scatty. So she gains a lot from my comments and she says she doesn't know what she would do without me.
I like my mom.

But it is worse with my dad. He always was very serious about the "father-child" hierarchy and although I see him making some mistakes I learned not to point them out because all I hear is "Children should be seen and not heard." and "Don't dare to talk to me like this! Show some respect. You are just a brat.". It makes my painfully angry because I just can't look when someone is doing something wrong. It is so uncomfortable. I want to fix it! So instead of telling him what to do I wait till he goes to another room and I do what I wanted to suggest him to do.
I don't really like my dad. I actually avoid him most of the time.

My dad often calls me a spoiled child and he suppose I want the whole world to change according to my wishes. Well, I know changing the world isn't 100% possible but what is wrong with changing your surroundings? I can't change the world but I can try to change the part of world I live in, right? Why I am not supposed to do what I am able to do?

I don't know if I fit this conversation as I am don't have children but I am an aspie daughter so I will try to write what I think.
like the user said I don't believe it is an aspie thing, rather, it depends on temperament. Like me many aspies are not bossy, quite the opposite, very passive. What may happen is that she doesn't understand what she is doing or why she should stop. For instance, some years ago at school I wrote in an exam a message to the teacher correcting the way she had done the exam and teaching her how to do it. After that the teacher started to look at me with a bad expression but I didn't understand why. Then I told my sister and she got surprised and told me I am not supposed to teach a teacher how to do her job. So I felt bad and didn't do it again.
try to see, first, if she does it because she wants to control or because she doesn't understand she is not supposed to do that. If she doesn't understand kindly explain to her in each situation. If she is being controlling then see if it is anxiety or temperament. If it is anxiety then you could thing about ways to make her feel more in control of the environment not needing to boss others (if that is the case I can write another post specifying), if it is temperament than I think you shouldn't allow her to do that or expect everyone to change according to what she thinks is the right. If she thinks in black and white it would be a hard task but you should do this explaining relativism (I may be able to help you), and not simply using your authority to make it stop, or giving orders, because it would only make it worse. It can be other case I didn't write about but I think those are the most probable.
this is what I think. Let me know which is the case so I can specify the strategies you could use.

OCD and OCD symptoms are common in autism (about 30% of people with ASD also have OCD). Sometimes the anxiety from OCD can bleed into relationships and create the sorts of coercive patterns you describe. So I wouldn't consider this an autism specific problem, per se, but rather one that can happen to people in relationships with others who have serious anxiety problems.

The fact that people with ASDs also have social and communicative impairments may lead them towards manipulative behaviors rather than more adaptive coping skills. For example, an NT kid who disagrees with a parent may negotiate and find a compromise, whereas a person with ASD may throw a tantrum. Negotiating is more adaptive and generally works better with fewer negative side effects, but it requires some social and communicative skills to achieve and people with ASDs aren't always capable of achieving it.

The hopeful part of this picture is that there are effective treatments for anxiety and OCD, even within autism. I would recommend seeking a cognitive behavioral therapist for your child, preferably one who specializes in treating people with Aspergers / Autism. That's a pretty specific skill-set, but they should be able to help your child manage anxiety, and give the family some strategies for approaching the issue as well. Here's a study showing that this can be effective: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 578.f03t01

I'm one of those people who have to point out that I think you meant "maligned" vs. "aligned" LOL