Autism And The Plastic Brain

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Hi Ann,

I wish your icon were clearer. Is that ABBA?

I wish I could use the "grid" in my poetry--but I can't, because I tend to impulsively come up with ideas which are based upon the ideas immediately preceding it.

Nope kk

JPS, specifically with regard to what you said earlier about eye contact, are able to do so unconsciously now? I have to manually adjust my eyes to what I think are appropriate exchanges.

Last edited by Ann2011 on 15 May 2014, 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

To clarify a bit, here's why I think that meditation is a good solution to rigid thinking or "the grid":

The issue is to do with compulsive over-thinking, which means that you're unlikely to be able to think your way out of it. Meditation is a way to practice letting go of all thoughts and experiencing that it is enjoyable and beneficial to do so. Meditation can be applied to any activity that doesn't demand logical thought, by just tuning into the experience of what's happening now, without judging it or mentally putting it into words. This will activate other processes in the brain which will then start to integrate themselves into everything else. Doing this a lot will develop these alternative processes more and more, while the logical mind can learn to relax a bit and surrender more control to them. Does that make sense?

With regard to eye contact, yes it's automatic for me now and feels natural. The Co-counselling I mentioned before did help me get the hang of what was appropriate, back when I did it some 20 years ago. More recently, social meditation helped me feel more comfortable with eye-contact so that it became a natural part of interaction.

It's obviously hard to practice meditation when talking to a friend (focusing on the experience and feeling of interacting without thoughts or judgement), which is one reason why I think social and expressive meditations like 5 rhythms are so useful. It's a chance to practice tuning into another person and getting comfortable and natural with intuitive non-verbal interaction, initially without the distraction of talking.

Last edited by JPS on 16 May 2014, 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

My strategy is (when I am speaking) to start speaking without looking at them, and then as I seem to be expressing myself okay, to look at them and to keep doing so until I lose my train of thought (which is 30 seconds tops, lol.) But my friends and family know about the eye contact thing so they dont really care.

hahaha

I think a little bit of demurral in ladies is quite attractive, actually--accompanied by a fluttering of the eyelashesLOL

This thread is ridiculous.

LOL...I know we're lost, but this is ridiculous!

This thread could be salvaged.

I've never really run my grid analogy by anyone before. It could be quite different to how most ASDs experience their condition for all I know - sounds like it didn't quite click with you two.

Yeah, I'm well aware of how absurd "new-age" principles and practices can sound to some people, but there's a reason why so many people do them and swear by them. Perhaps some of them would gain a lot more recognition if they were offered in a clinical setting and explained scientifically instead of with talk of karma, spiritual energy and such.

Since you're finding this too ridiculous, I guess I'll give up at this point and let Littlebee salvage the thread.

Here's the original link again, to her video about neuroplasticity.

It's actually really fascinating stuff.

To JPS, since you have talked about leaving this thread twice, I am going to say ]good-bye to you here but will see you on a different thread, perhaps, and feel free to pm me if you have any good ideas.

To continue, and this may be a little hard to understand--the grid idea is interesting in the way that it is trying to be applied here, as it illustrates a disconnect between two different modes, direct big picture perception and fine-tuning sensation, so makes a a glitch which can actually hinder the development of more efficient brain function. This is because the brain itself functions like a grid in term of integrating data, as recent studies have shown, but I think most of us already intuitively know this and can sense it; therefore to think of ones various subjective and limited idea patterns as a grid and to talk about it this way in this particular discussion in terms of just experiencing 'pure' experience without trying to fit it into this or that pattern imo actually cripples the possibility of the brain to integrate data more comprehensively and effectively like a kind of muscle, because the brain gird is not about ideas, per se, but about sensation, and the idea is to integrate ones subjective context into the grid of the functioning of the physical brain in such as way.that ones thinking in itself makes a direct connection and then loops back and so is transformative to the entire brain to make an even more concise, sophisticated and immediate neural network, the result being direct intelligent action and not analysis. This is not the same as being open to everything at the sacrifice of fine tuning, as it is this fine tuning which makes the brain more efficient.

In terms of regaining the control of an incapacitated arm after a stroke, only using it will restore the function. The idea here on this thread is to find a way to apply this concept to something less discrete such as ones own social impairment due to autism or whatever. If we brainstorm on this one and yet at the same time go very slow, out of the network of all of our brains working together to solve this problem, each for each, we will begin to understand how the electromagnetic field of functioning of our own brains working independently and yet together can begin to channel information in such a way which will yield epiphany that will immediately change the brain and gently force solutions to seemingly insolvable problems.

Dreycrux....I read a message on another thread where you talked about the horrible suffering you have been going through with OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder. A lot of people are suffering very deeply from various versions of that, and I have suffered very deeply from this myself, and as anyone who has suffered from OCD knows, this disorder is a very tough if not next to impossible nut to crack, but. In his book he touches on a new way to work with it that has a rather high success rate.

I don't much time to write today, but what strikes me is that so many here do not seem to have a grasp of the profound suffering so many here are experiences and the urgency of finding a solution.. Just saying you are autistic and comforting other autistic people who have been bullied and had horrible experiences around it, and trying to get other people called nt's to understand autism and be nice to autistic people is not really the solution to this great personal suffering which particular individuals are experiencing now.. I was criticized before for suggesting to take the bull by the horns, but what I was trying to say was not understood at the time by the person who criticized me. Maybe I should write more about that concept in regard to human brain function.

I think brain plasticity has its limits, I mean sure there certainly are ways to retrain the brain and perhaps better develop some connections that are lacking and such like. But I am skeptical that an autistic person could change their whole neurology to 'neurotypical' via brain plasticity, also while I think there are aspects of my PTSD that can improve not so sure brain plasticity would allow me to effectively cure myself but perhaps more to better manage the disorder and function better with it...so I just think it has its limits.

Also I feel like some people take it to mean anyone can transcend any condition and/or disability they have if only they try hard enough to take advantage of their brains plasticity which could lead to more blame towards people for having a condition because 'why haven't they cured it with brain plasticity yet?'. I guess the point being I feel some people get a bit carried away with it as a cure all when I see it as more of a useful tool....knowing brain wiring can be altered in some ways for the better I mean I know there are certain autistic features I used to have that I don't anymore due to such changes but as for my brain going from autistic to neurotypical I don't see that happening and probably wouldn't really want it to.

Thanks for your feedback. I basically agree with everything you wrote, but re this last paragraph with which I also agree and which point I already planned to go into before even reading this---for me in focusing from this basic premise even though there is surely much truth in it, there is a possible problematic aspect which I will reply to when I have the time to delve into it in depth.

I need to state that I have no idea of how this material could be applied in the case of autism or maybe only the vaguest of vague ideas, though I feel intuitively that it can, and the intent of this thread is to investigate into that. but we will have to go slow as there is a lot to look at, and I am still reading the body and deciding the best approach for exploring into it little by little..

For a start, which point I have already mentioned, even to realize that the brain is plastic changes the brain and opens up a door, at least for me.

Hi Sweetleaf. Have in the back of my mind been mulling over your very well thought out message ever since you wrote it....it's really kind of hard to respond when I basically agree with all the points, and yet the general gist of it does not fall into place for me and even strikes me as being in some subtle way kind of off.. Here is what I have finally come up with....first, I would not worry so much about how other people who may have distorted views of reality take this or that. It is something to consider in any kind of situation, to be sure--how the other person will take what one is saying, and I think it was well worth mentioning here, but I see a problem on this forum in that regarding the perceived well -being of other autistic people besides oneself is shaping the thinking and speaking of many into an all or nothing mentality. In short, no idea is going to come out 'straight' in all instances, but what exactly is the average autistic person here? We are all so unique ad individual.

I am afraid to write too much, as it feels like this computer is going to freeze, so will go into it more later, but the second thing is that the autism--neurotypical dichotomy is one possible example of a fixed kind of thinking shaping HOW the brain works and possibly limiting its flexibility. This is not to say there are not some people more neurotypical than others or that some people are not autistic, but rather to suggest that a person can get locked into this mode of framing.