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khaoz
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20 Jun 2014, 2:23 am

Maybe the cure, or part of the cure, for a lot of the financial problems of the US is simply to jump into the 21st century with the rest of the civilized world.

http://www.popsci.com/blog-network/unpo ... SOC&dom=fb



Jono
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20 Jun 2014, 4:11 am

The way I understand it, it's already illegal to teach creationism in a science classroom, at least in public schools, as the Dover trial indicated. If got a test like that, even in grade 4 (it was called standard 2, when I was in school), I would not of written the test. I already kew about evolution at that age and believed it, even though we weren't really taught it.



khaoz
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20 Jun 2014, 9:42 am

Jono wrote:
The way I understand it, it's already illegal to teach creationism in a science classroom, at least in public schools, as the Dover trial indicated. If got a test like that, even in grade 4 (it was called standard 2, when I was in school), I would not of written the test. I already kew about evolution at that age and believed it, even though we weren't really taught it.


There are some schools in the US who re illegally teaching Creationism. They just use fancy semantic and nefarious interpretations to circumvent the wording of the laws.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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20 Jun 2014, 10:02 am

We need more science majors that's true even though some of science I despise. I actually hate a lot of it and feel disgusted by it. Mostly bio medical though.



JNathanK
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20 Jun 2014, 10:27 am

If they ban creationism, they'll just argue that its the "science of intelligent design" I hope it doesn't have that as a loophole.



JNathanK
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20 Jun 2014, 10:30 am

Jono wrote:
The way I understand it, it's already illegal to teach creationism in a science classroom, at least in public schools, as the Dover trial indicated. If got a test like that, even in grade 4 (it was called standard 2, when I was in school), I would not of written the test. I already kew about evolution at that age and believed it, even though we weren't really taught it.


The fundamentalists act like they teech Kindergarteners evolution in public schools, but I never learned about it till highschool biology class, and it was a short segment. It wasn't even a huge part of the semester or anything.



Basso53
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20 Jun 2014, 3:25 pm

khaoz wrote:
Jono wrote:
The way I understand it, it's already illegal to teach creationism in a science classroom, at least in public schools, as the Dover trial indicated. If got a test like that, even in grade 4 (it was called standard 2, when I was in school), I would not of written the test. I already kew about evolution at that age and believed it, even though we weren't really taught it.


There are some schools in the US who re illegally teaching Creationism. They just use fancy semantic and nefarious interpretations to circumvent the wording of the laws.


It's not illegal for schools in the US to teach creation "science" in many states. In fact, there are states that mandate that it be given equal treatment in science classes with real science.


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TheBicyclingGuitarist
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20 Jun 2014, 4:42 pm

What the creationists in the USA do not realize is that if they got their wish and had their religious beliefs inserted into science classrooms, it could backfire on them. IF it were done honestly, studying the evidence and comparing whether or not it supports evolution or special separate creation for each "kind" (a vague and therefore meaningless term by the way) would let kids figure out for themselves that their parents and preachers are LYING to them about this subject.

Unfortunately, most public school teachers are not qualified to teach science, and many science teachers in the USA are full-blown born again Christians who are very much out of touch with demonstrable reality. But IF it were to be done honestly, show the children the evidence and let them decide, it is a no brainer as to which idea best fits the evidence.

Hint: ALL the evidence found so far supports evolution and none yet found falsifies it, but it is falsifiable. Creationists have been in court more than a dozen times the past fifty years trying to push their beliefs into science classrooms where they don't belong, and in all those court cases creationists have not yet been able to produce any scientific evidence that either supports their position or falsifies evolution.

Of course reality is not determined by courts of law, but consider that every time creationists go up against evolution in a fair fight in a court of law the creationists come out looking like fools because they have NOTHING to support their position except God of the Gaps, the Watchmaker analogy, Irreducible complexity and other nonsense that has been debunked. They base their opinion on a style of interpretation (Biblical literalism) that is flawed in its very essence. There are theological problems with Biblical literalism in addition to such an interpretation being falsified by the evidence of the physical world. Why would God lie to us in His creation by planting so much evidence of so many different types that all point to the same reality that includes evolution as an observable, testable fact of nature.

I am continually amazed and saddened that evolution, which is possibly the best supported scientific idea known to man, that explains so much so well with so few assumptions, is so badly misrepresented and misunderstood by such a large fraction of the general public. IT IS JUST AS STUPID AS IF HALF THE ADULTS IN THE USA SERIOUSLY BELIEVED THE EARTH IS FLAT IN SPITE OF ALL EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.

To be consistent, those who argue against evolution from a Biblical perspective should also be insisting on giving equal time to the flat earth in a geography or astronomy classroom, because from Genesis to Revelation it is quite clear the authors of the Bible believed the earth was flat and there are many verses throughout the book that indicate this.


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ruveyn
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20 Jun 2014, 7:36 pm

Jono wrote:
The way I understand it, it's already illegal to teach creationism in a science classroom, at least in public schools, as the Dover trial indicated. If got a test like that, even in grade 4 (it was called standard 2, when I was in school), I would not of written the test. I already kew about evolution at that age and believed it, even though we weren't really taught it.


Judge Jones in the Dover PA case ruled that teaching intelligent design as part of the science courses is "stealth creationism" and is illegal in the public schools of Pennsylvania.

However if Intelligent Design is a topic studied in a course on religions in America it would be perfectly legal.

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khaoz
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20 Jun 2014, 8:07 pm

Basso53 wrote:
khaoz wrote:
Jono wrote:
The way I understand it, it's already illegal to teach creationism in a science classroom, at least in public schools, as the Dover trial indicated. If got a test like that, even in grade 4 (it was called standard 2, when I was in school), I would not of written the test. I already kew about evolution at that age and believed it, even though we weren't really taught it.


There are some schools in the US who re illegally teaching Creationism. They just use fancy semantic and nefarious interpretations to circumvent the wording of the laws.


It's not illegal for schools in the US to teach creation "science" in many states. In fact, there are states that mandate that it be given equal treatment in science classes with real science.


Conservatives that are violating the 1st Amendment, maliciously, to further their agenda. And this is not the only issue being affected by this disregard for morality, ethics or law.



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20 Jun 2014, 8:28 pm

I'm not American, but it would make me very happy if you guys could outlaw any kind of religious nonsense in schools, then export this concept to the UK.

Not that I'm against the outright banning of all religious forms of expression, but I think it's a disgrace and an embarrassment that allegedly civilised and technologically advanced nations still have schools that aren't without exception secular.

Religion should be a module in a History lesson, Faith should be a decision we make as learned adults, not forced upon us as vulnerable children.


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20 Jun 2014, 10:32 pm

It is perfectly legal to teach Creation in public schools across the USA; the main reason so many refuse to is because most public-school funding comes from the Liberal Left. You don't even have to cite the Bible for it; just use the same evidence as evolution activists, minus the naturalistic starting point.


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khaoz
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20 Jun 2014, 10:40 pm

Technically, it is not legal. We have been down this road before. Those who do teach it, by whatever fake science name they have created in order to use semantics and twist words to circumvent the law. People who are teaching this fake science have no integrity. It is in violation of the 1st Amendment but Conservative politicians have chosen to bastardize our founding document in order to push their agenda and further dumb down America, making it impossible for is to compete with the rest of the modern, industrialized world. It is affecting our economy already.



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20 Jun 2014, 10:52 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
It is perfectly legal to teach Creation in public schools across the USA; the main reason so many refuse to is because most public-school funding comes from the Liberal Left. You don't even have to cite the Bible for it; just use the same evidence as evolution activists, minus the naturalistic starting point.


khaoz wrote:
Technically, it is not legal. We have been down this road before. Those who do teach it, by whatever fake science name they have created in order to use semantics and twist words to circumvent the law.
Has science been given a legal definition that, in this case, could be used to prove they have circumvented the law?

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People who are teaching this fake science have no integrity.
Are they also trolls like you believe the GOP and the Tea Party are full of?

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It is in violation of the 1st Amendment but Conservative politicians have chosen to bastardize our founding document in order to push their agenda and further dumb down America
Even if it is BS it still free speech per the 1st Amendment.

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making it impossible for is to compete with the rest of the modern, industrialized world. It is affecting our economy already.
So the rest of the world has to wait another month for us to release the next iPhone because some schools teach creationism. Tuff titty for them.


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TheBicyclingGuitarist
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20 Jun 2014, 11:17 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
It is perfectly legal to teach Creation in public schools across the USA; the main reason so many refuse to is because most public-school funding comes from the Liberal Left. You don't even have to cite the Bible for it; just use the same evidence as evolution activists, minus the naturalistic starting point.


You are wrong, Moviefan2k4, because the evidence does NOT support a literal reading of Genesis, like it or not! For example, the patterns of nested hierarchies of different types of genetic data from studying the DNA of different animals and plants produce the same tree of life we find expressed in the fossil record. That is expected and predicted by evolution but totally falsifies the idea of special creation of separate kinds all at once.

No, it is NOT a matter of looking at the same evidence with different assumptions. The bottom line is that a literal reading of Genesis is not supported by physical evidence while evolution is. If you don't like that fact, take it up with your God who made things that way.

And it most definitely is NOT legal to teach Creationism as science for exactly that reason. It has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. Reality is what it is, like it or not, and that includes that part of the Constitution about our government not supposed to push any one particular religion down everybody's throats.

It IS legal to teach creationism in a class about religion or mythology. To put it into a science classroom is not okay though according to reason, logic, AND the U.S. Constitution. Find some evidence that either supports creationism or falsifies evolution and you will win a Nobel Prize. Notice that nobody has yet been able to do that, and if you think otherwise it just means your sources are LYING to you..


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20 Jun 2014, 11:41 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
It is perfectly legal to teach Creation in public schools across the USA; the main reason so many refuse to is because most public-school funding comes from the Liberal Left.


Correction. The main reason schools don't teach it is because it is a fairy tale.