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polarity
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19 Aug 2014, 5:11 am

The people you're working for sound like these guys:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVvGxHALfns[/youtube]


And I'm thinking the hiring of your Director of IT went something like this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuPolrd9yuo[/youtube]



I've been programming since I was 8, and at around 13 I came across The Hacker Jargon Lexicon, which taught me a fair bit about programmer culture, including just how incompetent management can be. I'll be starting my 2nd year of a game design degree this September (where I'm pretty much the only student with an interest in programming), and because I tend to read around the subject, I've been looking into topics like Scrum and Agile, and reading books like The Mythical Man Month and The Art of UNIX Programming.

Why am I doing this?

Because if I'm ever at that point in a job interview where they ask if I have any questions, I can ask them what system they use for project management. If they don't have a clue what I'm on about, then I really don't want to work there. If management don't understand that managing software development is entirely different from managing anything else, then they're clearly incompetent, and destined to fail.


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Krakken
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19 Aug 2014, 11:38 am

polarity wrote:
The people you're working for sound like these guys:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVvGxHALfns[/youtube]



More like this

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg[/youtube]



Tori0326
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19 Aug 2014, 8:37 pm

Holy cow yes!
The big question is do managers know they're clueless and are just faking it or do they really believe they're making sense?
And are we the only ones who see it as it really is? I feel just like the expert line drawer except I wouldn't have kept my cool like he did.



Tori0326
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20 Aug 2014, 6:15 pm

Just a sample of the ignorance we're dealing with at my workplace.
Today I was looking at our intern's (the director's sister) code for our webpage and it looked very basic...all static content and no CSS...so I called it to the attention of the lead front end developer and he made a list of things he probably needs to go over with her to help her grow as a developer. He went to the Director to brief her and mentioned she needs to learn to use "classes" when coding in HTML. Well the Director apparently only knows one definition of the word "class" and latched onto that, so now she wants the front end developer to teach programming classes for IT interns... :roll:



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21 Aug 2014, 8:46 am

Tori0326 wrote:
Just a sample of the ignorance we're dealing with at my workplace.
Today I was looking at our intern's (the director's sister) code for our webpage and it looked very basic...all static content and no CSS...so I called it to the attention of the lead front end developer and he made a list of things he probably needs to go over with her to help her grow as a developer. He went to the Director to brief her and mentioned she needs to learn to use "classes" when coding in HTML. Well the Director apparently only knows one definition of the word "class" and latched onto that, so now she wants the front end developer to teach programming classes for IT interns... :roll:


~sobbing~ oh, that's painful!



Tori0326
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28 Oct 2014, 10:30 pm

Today the same manager threatened to fire me because she misunderstood the context of the conversation I was having with a coworker.

They sprang on me yesterday, a month into our latest project and two months from the due date, that they're tossing all my php scripts I've been working on for the past month and now want the whole thing developed in Ruby on Rails. All because the one VP guy's cousin is a back end developer for some big website and he agreed to be a consultant on the project.
Well, he doesn't work with MySQL and PHP...it must be PostgreSQL and Ruby on Rails. Neither of which I've even seen before let alone am proficient in.

So they tell me I need to learn Ruby on Rails....ok....does the consultant have any recommended tutorials...so I get a link sent down through the ranks to me because apparently now I'm not worthy to communicate with the guy directly. I spend all morning slogging through the beginning of the tutorial, going all into setting up this cloud based developer environment that I've never had any experience with before....the tutorial was over my head at parts and lacking complete information on how to do things.

All I did was say something in passing to my developer manager like "Wow, this Ruby stuff is complicated, no wonder Ruby developers make six figures." The manager guy, who is my friend, says to me "Yeah, I hear ya, I only had a 9 week course on Ruby in college like 10 years ago." I said to him "Will you give me 9 weeks to learn this then?" Just about then the Director woman comes in and interjects herself saying something about "Well, this is a start up and we're all a little hurting for money right now." Which I thought was off-topic but I chuckled and just said some of us more than others. She then jumped all over me like you all shouldn't be discussing salaries, etc, I told her we hadn't, that it was just logical for me to assume that everyone in here was making at least X amount. She told me that there are people in the department making less than me to which I just said I can't believe that, as in surprise, because I really didn't think that was the case. Well she took that to mean I was calling her a liar. I told her no I wasn't. She said she was going to lunch and that was that I thought. After the fact I thought I shouldn't have said the crack about some of us more than others...I had never intended the discussion to go down any avenue like that.

So, come maybe 3pm I get called into a conference room by my manager, the guy I was originally talking to and he tells me I'm in trouble for the earlier discussion and The director and maybe even the VP is going to come in to talk to me....so it's an ambush. I told him this all got blown way out of proportion, I was only talking to him about a tutorial being hard, that's all it was ever supposed to be. So she comes in and is all threatening to fire me and tells me she almost fired me before. I told her all it was meant to be was a comment in passing to the manager and I didn't understand how it got to where it did but I was sorry for my part and mentioned the low salary crack. She comes back at me and says that's not what bothered her, it was that I said I wanted to be making six figures in 9 weeks.....huh??????
That didn't even make any sense.... I immediately realized where she got the 9 weeks from so I was relieved at first and set about to correct the misunderstanding...Ohhh....no, no I asked him to give me 9 weeks to learn Ruby, like he had a 9 week course in school, that was a whole different statement. She then proceeded to say "I know what I heard and you're calling me a liar then." "No, I'm just trying to clarity what I said to him that you walked in on." She went on about "I can't keep having these misunderstandings with you." The problem is she is like uber-NT, she self-revealed she has ADD....she doesn't even listen to people, she assumes she knows what you said. She flys off the handle and makes terrible management choices.

I just need to go someplace else and apparently not feel comfortable enough anywhere to think I can make jokes or be sarcastic. I forget I am different than the group until I'm singled out for something I think is benign. I wonder if I have any recourse if she does fire me in the meantime. This was not the first clash with her and I did go to HR about her previously...I kind of figure everything since from her has been retribution.



Tori0326
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29 Oct 2014, 9:04 am

Was terminated this morning for yesterday's events related in my post above.

At least I have more time to look for work now. :roll:



MissDorkness
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29 Oct 2014, 9:12 am

Tori0326 wrote:
Was terminated this morning for yesterday's events related in my post above.

At least I have more time to look for work now. :roll:


I am SO sorry to hear that.

There is one person I work with and we interact in exactly the same way, so I have had the same fear that some stupid misunderstanding and their firm KNOWLEDGE of what they heard and my practical reflex of 'no, that wasn't it at all' only results in buckling down harder. I can forget about it for bits of time but it's always there hanging over me and I wonder when the next flare-up will be. That's exhausting.

Seriously, all the best of luck in your job search.



kraftiekortie
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29 Oct 2014, 10:01 am

I'm sorry you were terminated. Apply for Unemployment right away; it can't hurt.

In the meantime, try to find a better position.



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01 Nov 2014, 5:55 pm

I've read this entire thread. I'm so very sorry you were fired. I had a boss just like this at my last job----from which I was also fired----she micro-managed EVERYTHING!! I don't understand, for instance.... if things get done, properly, does it really matter HOW they're done----and, if it DOES matter, how 'bout telling someone WHY, so the directions can be more easily understood. When she went on vacation, TONS of work got done, cuz nobody was worried about her flying out of her office at any second, to see what was going-on. It's okay, in a sense, that I got fired because I deserved it. I let my problems with her build-up, and when she confronted me about something, I exploded----I let her have it with both barrels!! ! I told her, among other things, that she was never gonna get the work out of people like she wanted because she mico-manages and nobody likes that. She said she had been told that before, and I said: "So, then, why don't you stop doing it?"

Another thing I wanted to add, was..... I was amazed recently when I went to apply for a managerial position, then I saw some other position at the same place----a lower position, though----and, I thought: "Well since I'm qualified to be the manager, I KNOW I'm qualified to be the subordinate"----I WASN'T!! ! Can you BELIEVE it??? I wanted to tell you, though, because of what you said about this woman director not knowing anything about programming / developing. It's amazing to me that someone can be hired as a boss, and not have any knowledge / experience, whatsoever, in what they're "bossin'"! !!

Please do NOT be down on yourself!! ! IT WAS NOT YOU, IT WAS HER!! ! Even I understand / can program with HTML and CSS, and I taught MYSELF, for heaven's sakes!! ! There was something about you----and I get this ALL the time----that intimidated her, made her self-conscience, or insecure about herself, and I think it was because YOU come-across as confident!! ! I know----I know----I don't know how people arrive at that about me, either, but I think that's what happened. Know that you truly tried to do the right thing(s)----and that YOU have integrity, good morals / values / etc., and are an upstanding person!! !

Please keep your chin, up, and let us know how things are going, for ya!!





Tori0326
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03 Nov 2014, 1:43 am

Thank you :)

I haven't been down on myself nor have I done any second guessing. I don't see how this could have been avoided unless I compromised my integrity, which I'm not willing to do for a job. I don't think she had grounds to terminate me and it makes me mad that the CEO let her, but on the other hand I'm glad I'm out of there and hopefully can collect unemployment while I'm looking for another position, which I hope won't take too long.

One of my former co-workers stopped by today to see how I'm doing which was very nice. I'm really doing fine. I'm kind of excited about the possibilities. I've put out some applications and already spoke to a recruiter at a large company. I've got some other companies I'm targeting so I'm hopeful I'll find something soon.



ok
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03 Nov 2014, 3:42 am

This is quite a story, and sadly a "classic autistic" story about an aspie being discriminated and marginalized in the work place. If you have the ressources, I really think you should sue the company as this is completely unacceptable conduct by your bosses.

I'm glad you have a positive outlook, and that your job opportunities seems alright - with any luck you should find something better soon.



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03 Nov 2014, 3:20 pm

Tori0326 wrote:
Thank you :)

I haven't been down on myself nor have I done any second guessing. I don't see how this could have been avoided unless I compromised my integrity, which I'm not willing to do for a job. I don't think she had grounds to terminate me and it makes me mad that the CEO let her, but on the other hand I'm glad I'm out of there and hopefully can collect unemployment while I'm looking for another position, which I hope won't take too long.

One of my former co-workers stopped by today to see how I'm doing which was very nice. I'm really doing fine. I'm kind of excited about the possibilities. I've put out some applications and already spoke to a recruiter at a large company. I've got some other companies I'm targeting so I'm hopeful I'll find something soon.


You're quite welcome!! I've got ALL of my fingers and toes crossed, for ya!!




Tori0326
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04 Nov 2014, 2:40 pm

ok wrote:
This is quite a story, and sadly a "classic autistic" story about an aspie being discriminated and marginalized in the work place. If you have the ressources, I really think you should sue the company as this is completely unacceptable conduct by your bosses.

I'm glad you have a positive outlook, and that your job opportunities seems alright - with any luck you should find something better soon.



I know the manager was horrible and I can also confirm that by my co-workers relating the same complaints and they're not aspies. But I also know that familiar aspie delayed realization that I must have crossed some NT line I didn't realize was there. I'll be going along thinking everything is fine and then boom someone explodes at me or someone avoids me obviously enough for me to notice. I'm always confused because I really don't know what I did and then if they even recount to me what I said I'm pretty certain that's not what I actually said, or I don't understand why they're mad about it, but they're so angry at that point that I realize it must have been a series of misunderstandings leading up to that moment.

I did mention it to this manager but I never officially notified my employer as I don't have an official diagnosis. Asperger's wasn't a thing until I was an adult. My mom took me to a bunch of specialists when I was a child but they never could put their finger on it back then. I feel normal so I really don't know how I present to people. Obviously, I'm not normal because it doesn't seem to take people very long to start having issues with me. I seem to usually make a good first impression but it degrades from there.

I am talking to a recruiter with a really big company. We'll see how that goes. I've sent my resume to some other companies. I'm also considering if I wouldn't be better off freelancing. That way I could do what I do best without all the people contact. I got into IT/programming so I could work with less human contact, which in this last job swung toward more human contact as time went on.



Tori0326
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04 Feb 2015, 10:52 pm

Just an update...

I got a job! I start Monday.
Finding a job over the holiday season was practically impossible. I think all the companies just put hiring on hold for a few weeks, but things picked up in January and I had a handful of potential employers interested. I decided I really wanted to continue as a software developer so I took that over some other choices in the IT field.

Now I just have to find a new place to live closer to work. It looks like I'll be commuting a little over an hour each way for the first couple weeks until I find something but I think it will be worth it. This company is much more structured (and much bigger) and I'm hoping that's my safety net from psychotic managers.