Is Theodore Kaczynski an Aspie? what about Zodiac killer?

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jonathandoors
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27 Feb 2007, 9:07 pm

Zodiac's knowledge of astrology would be unusual for a neurotypical, but typical of an Aspie.

Theodore Kaczynski bio includes social awkwardness and intense interests in math and eco



SteveK
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27 Feb 2007, 10:03 pm

jonathandoors wrote:
Zodiac's knowledge of astrology would be unusual for a neurotypical, but typical of an Aspie.


ACTUALLY, it would probably be MORE likely for an NT than an Aspie! That was the SEVENTIES!! !! !! And WHAT was maybe THE major ice breaker back then for SOCIAL functions? "WHAT'S YOUR SIGN!! !????"! !! ! HECK, I knew my sign when practically from the time I started reading. My mother was into astrology from the standpoint of believing some things, etc... She went to no less than 3 "psychics"! I knew

Besides, was he REALLY that knowledgable? No matter, astrology was one of THE biggest interests, etc... back then. It seemed like EVERYONE sold horoscopes, had books(ephemeris) that showed how planets aligned, etc.... I PERSONALLY knew several people that had those books. BTW I had NO interest in this dreck, and the people I knew that did did NOT have AS! Besides, can you name ANY real symptoms?
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[quote="jonathandoors"c]Theodore Kaczynski bio includes social awkwardness and intense interests in math and eco[/quote]

Socially awkward? YIKES!? NOPE!! !! !! People consider him a PSYCHOPATH! Were the interests REALLY that intense? He seemed nuts, and wanted to be noticed. He didn't seem aspie at all!

What is this anyway? It seems like people come out point to some supposedly unusual intelligence, and yell HE'S GOT AS!?

Steve



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27 Feb 2007, 10:12 pm

jonathandoors wrote:

Theodore Kaczynski bio includes social awkwardness and intense interests in math and eco


Since we depend on technology so much most sane people reject Theodore Kaczynski
FC movement (f... computers). But if AI ever enslaves man he will be in the future books of religion.



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27 Feb 2007, 10:14 pm

Just because someone is a serial killer doesn't mean he/she has AS. But I saw the 2005 movie called Zodiac and it was really good.



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27 Feb 2007, 10:43 pm

I think Ted is an interesting charactor,I would like to know more about him.If he wrote a book about himself I would read it.I might even agree with some of his ideas but I dont think I could ever cause harm to anyone,even Channey or G Bush,who I think are truly evil and insane.


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28 Feb 2007, 12:31 am

I have come across quite a few other aspies who have gone through interests in serial killers and the criminal mind though. I still have an interest in such things, but I don't know why. I am surprised my mother didn't ever say anything when I was reading about serial killers in my teens, lol. I do wonder what causes the interest in such macabre things. I suppose I wanted to figure out what goes through the mind of such individuals.



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28 Feb 2007, 12:40 am

Good at Mathematics, was doing well, worked hard, made it to a University teaching position. Then computers hit the scene. His lifes work was gone, he had been replaced by a machine.

While many people were liberated by electronic calculators, I remember the first Wang I saw, about 1970, an adding machine, with LEDs like neon tubes, I think it cost $3400, It did just what the mechanical one's that cost $200 did.

The IBM Selectric with the type ball head was the hottest thing going for writers. The ball could be changed for other languages, or scientific notation. Some documents had to go through three times, and perfect, for Whiteout had not been invented.

Ted had a plan, undone, he failed to adapt to change, I was working IBM punchcard then. He was a master of process, so was my IBM. It filled a room, and was mechanical. Punch cards had been around for over fifty years, I think the one that got him was tape, a room full of trays of cards replaced by one reel.

He had the math, but not the mechanical, which was the model for the electronic, so he developed a hatred of that he could not understand. I think there was something else, that he had plans for, and she might have hopped a jet out of his life. He did hate tranportation, mostly airlines.

I think he became paranoid, at every step machines had ruined his life, he had positioned himself well to rise, a decade before he would have, we were not out to get him, we were out to get his whole class.
The world was a set piece then, change was small and generational. Get through school, learn one thing well, be employed for life.

I started in IT as a mechanic, it paid better then cars, and was cleaner. We had our differances. I was given machines, and manuals, I demanded exploded diagrams, and when they found me with the machines, covers removed, going through them, they freaked. I had been hired to fix them, but they were not broken. I pointed out that books and prints are not machines, and I had to see how they functioned to troubleshoot them, and they were in pieces, so I would put them back together. They got over it.

I was hired by one company, and was learning enough to be an IBM Tech. I drove my industry. Ted had it run away, and she ran away, and the future ran away, and he flipped.

We made him obsolete. I became bored with tube circuts. Transistors were coming along, but it was still replace a tube, or replace a board. All programing was hard wired.

If I brought you all in for torture, then questioning, then more torture, and more questioning, I do not think I would find a single person who has sent a letter bomb. That aside, I do like to gather information, so maybe.

He sent bombs to Universities, airlines, and I think some Tech companies. He killed and maimed people he did not know, for fourteen years. An aspie would become bored. Ted did nothing else, single point, unable to adapt even as a nutcase. Our obsessions do not last.

He was not creative, from the second bomb they knew it was the same person. Aspies cannot help but be creative. When he was caught, all of his bomb making supplies were there, but there was no mention of tons of books. Aspies are book junkies. He did not own a computer. We have children here better than me.

He did not out grow it, which aspies do in their early fourties, delayed development, but they get there. Ted stayed the same till the last. Aspies reinvent themselves, or forget who they were, or something. Where did I leave my identity, I know I left it around here somewhere?

The quality of his bombs was low, his means were crude, no I am not going to tell how. There are thousands of ways, he came up with one, and stuck to it. Stick to it ness is not an aspie trait. Maybe for a month, maybe off and on for a school year, but fourteen years, no way.

As for serial killers, since when do aspies leave the house, seek relationships with strangers, con manipulate, using herd instinct, social skills, their ability to blend in, or take a dominate relationship position, and willfully dive in to extreme emotional interaction?

Aspies might make it as far as a petting zoo. On a slow weekday, when the weather was good.

I am afraid the lot of you are criminally naive.



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28 Feb 2007, 1:33 am

Serial Killers are generally psychopaths, Theodore Kaczynski was not a serial killer, just a terrorist. He killed via bombs he sent through the mail system, I doubt he could have killed a person directly.

It is highly likely Theodore Kaczynski is on the spectrum.



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28 Feb 2007, 7:58 am

I remember Jerry Newport (who has posted on here before) talking about having been in university with Ted and saying that he was misdiagnosed early in life or something with being on the spectrum when he wasn't and some other issues that might have been messed up but he didn't seem to comment on Ted being on the spectrum.



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28 Feb 2007, 8:38 am

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Last edited by SteveK on 28 Feb 2007, 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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28 Feb 2007, 10:20 am

newchum wrote:
Serial Killers are generally psychopaths, Theodore Kaczynski was not a serial killer, just a terrorist. He killed via bombs he sent through the mail system, I doubt he could have killed a person directly.

It is highly likely Theodore Kaczynski is on the spectrum.


I agree. And even his lawyers brought up the possibility of autism. However, only psychosis or mental retardation really wins points with the judge and jury and he definitely was paranoid as well, so Schizophrenia as a dx probably served him better in court.

But as far as his bio and family history, to me he seems a clear cut Aspie. A good case study done on him was in Clifford Pickover's Strange Brains and Genius. Reading his thorough symptomatic bio he did of Ted, I have no doubt in my mind.

He used self-stimulatory behaviors, was a complete social outcast (which actually seemed to lead to his later crimes), was pretty OCD, was a math and engineering savant, and was pretty much a hermit (extremely so later on).

As for the Zodiac, I never studied him much, mainly because he's never been caught so one can't know much about him other than what he's presented.


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jonathandoors
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28 Feb 2007, 12:25 pm

AETV had a bio on the unabomber and hearing about his childhood I thought he was a clear case of Aspie, complete with IQ over 130 (his was like 170) and completely socially rejected, and focused interest in mathematics.



SteveK
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28 Feb 2007, 12:50 pm

jonathandoors wrote:
AETV had a bio on the unabomber and hearing about his childhood I thought he was a clear case of Aspie, complete with IQ over 130 (his was like 170) and completely socially rejected, and focused interest in mathematics.


Well, I HATE to say it but after reviewing everything, he MIGHT be. That is why I deleted my last post. With the bombs, he seemed to be playing a game, and the low quality may have been INTENTIONAL. Frankly, though, he could have made them look MORE like taunts. Some of the description of him almost screams aspie. I scanned parts of his manifesto, and some things were what many here, including myself, would have liked to say. HECK, I HAVE said some of it. I just didn't have much of a forum, and people often don't want to hear. He may have done it all, The bombs and letters, ONLY so that would be read.

He even gives the bullying, because of a skipped grade, credit for making him as he is. I was given a chance to skip grades but thought about that, and stayed in my mediocre life there. I didn't like the idea of bigger bullies.

BTW not all AS people are good with math. I probably would have been, and WANTED to be, but was exposed late by bad teachers. I HAVE seen people claiming to be good at math that are worse than I am though.

I still stand by what I said about the zodiac killer though.

Steve



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28 Feb 2007, 4:00 pm

SteveK wrote:
jonathandoors wrote:
AETV had a bio on the unabomber and hearing about his childhood I thought he was a clear case of Aspie, complete with IQ over 130 (his was like 170) and completely socially rejected, and focused interest in mathematics.


Well, I HATE to say it but after reviewing everything, he MIGHT be. That is why I deleted my last post. With the bombs, he seemed to be playing a game, and the low quality may have been INTENTIONAL. Frankly, though, he could have made them look MORE like taunts. Some of the description of him almost screams aspie. I scanned parts of his manifesto, and some things were what many here, including myself, would have liked to say. HECK, I HAVE said some of it. I just didn't have much of a forum, and people often don't want to hear. He may have done it all, The bombs and letters, ONLY so that would be read.

He even gives the bullying, because of a skipped grade, credit for making him as he is. I was given a chance to skip grades but thought about that, and stayed in my mediocre life there. I didn't like the idea of bigger bullies.

BTW not all AS people are good with math. I probably would have been, and WANTED to be, but was exposed late by bad teachers. I HAVE seen people claiming to be good at math that are worse than I am though.

I still stand by what I said about the zodiac killer though.

Steve


Steve, like I said, that Pickover guy's book does a good job of doing a case study on Ted. He particularly focused on the psych symptoms so it's a really good view. It's not too long a read, only a chapter. If you find it in the library or even in a Borders somewhere, just sit down and take a quick read.


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28 Feb 2007, 4:11 pm

zodiac knew more about cryptography than astronomy

building relativly unbreakable cipher for one time use with a -small cross section of text- isn't that hard, but very few people could actually do it, crypto is a niche interest, I've only encountered probably 10 people who really give a damn about it at all



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28 Feb 2007, 4:42 pm

There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Ted Kaczynski is on the spectrum. His is not schizophrenic at all. I read his full psychological assessment on court TV.

His mother was so worried about his social isolation when he was a child that she brought him to be assessed for autism, by guess who, Bruno Bethlehem himself.

Quote:
Again somewhat conflicting accounts exist as to his early social development. He was viewed as a bright child and was described by his mother as not being particularly comfortable around other children and displaying fears of people and buildings. She noted that he played beside other children rather than with them. Her concern about him apparently led her to consider enrolling him in a study being conducted by Bruno Bethlehem regarding autistic children.

Read his psychological assessment and see what you think. I think he is an Aspie, there is no doubt.

[url=http://]http://www.courttv.com/trials/unabomber/documents/psychological.html[/url] Ted's Psycological Assesment

He also has a higher Verbal then Performance IQ by 14 points, that is typical of autism. His social isolation was caused by poor social skills, rather then paranoia and deliberate withdrawal from people. He tried to create social relationships but failed. That is where his anger stems from, people rejected him - he blamed other people for his social difficulties.