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Jaymcgrath
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11 Aug 2014, 7:09 pm

Just wondering if anyone else is particularly prone to run ins with middle class, middle aged females.

I'm not saying that I have this problem with every such person I meet, as I do have some of the aforementioned as friends but I seem far more likely to fall foul of them. I'm not saying it's only this type of person I don't get on with either.

In school i had a teacher who seemed to be telling me off every time she spoke to me. I was glad she was never my actual teacher, just one of the many teaching staff in my school.

In work I've had bosses who seem convinced that I was Homer Simpson. They seemed to be monitoring me, pulling me up over every thing and everything, accusing me of stuff i didn't do and not being willing to rate me at anything other than average at appraisal time.

My theory is that these people are less compatible with aspieness due to the following.

1) the older generation are often less open to "new" ideas and conservative thinkers.

2) There is a lot of eticate involved in being middle class - lots of "rituals" and "ways" to walk, talk, sit and dress. They also eat and socialise in " trendy sophisticated" places. Middle class people can often be very judgemental towards those who don't share these attributes ( ie your average working joe like me)

3) being feminine involves a lot of emotion and body language compared to a male.

When all three of these attributes are found together a person becomes very remote from aspie land. It's human nature to be uneasy amongst that which is different to us - and we aspies can't complain we write the book on being uneasy around the different. Consequently an aspie is left almost pre disposed to
run ins with these people - after all we simply don't do some of the things the above find so important.

I've also been told in my aspie support group that aspies can appear deceitful even when we are not. I have personally been accused by the above group of being aggressive, sarcastic or offensive when I've had no such intention of being so. I was quite mortified that I came across this way. None of this helps when the above group are trying to get to know you.

One thing I will say is that these people in general can become less suspicious and hostile when you tell them you have AS.

To conclude is this just me or is this happening to other people? Are the above factors difference makers and does the paranoia an aspie can feel create a vicious circle of mutual suspicion and distrust, leading to hated and conflict.?



Last edited by Jaymcgrath on 12 Aug 2014, 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

cathylynn
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11 Aug 2014, 7:39 pm

i am a middle aged, middle class, female aspie. as such, most of my friends are middle aged females. i don't have much problem there. maybe because i'm generally quiet. not tons of chances to screw up. i have had trouble with male authority figures in the past, though.



rugulach
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11 Aug 2014, 7:40 pm

Indeed yes, the middle class middle aged to older women are the group that seem to have the most problems with my aspieness.



SilverProteus
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11 Aug 2014, 8:01 pm

rugulach wrote:
Indeed yes, the middle class middle aged to older women are the group that seem to have the most problems with my aspieness.


Me too, I think. I've had terrible experiences with a middle aged, middle class woman in the past. But I don't know if she's the exception or the rule.



olympiadis
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11 Aug 2014, 9:12 pm

Jaymcgrath wrote:
Just wondering if anyone else is particularly prone to run ins with middle class, middle aged females.

Consequently an aspie is left almost pre disposed to
run ins with these people - after all we simply don't do some of the things the above find so important.
I've also been told in my aspie support group that aspies can appear deceitful even when we are not. I have personally been accused by the above group of being aggressive, sarcastic or offensive when I've had no such intention of being so.


Yes, I too.

They often take an aggressive stance with me, I react, and I'm then accused of being aggressive.
I don't think that word means what they think it means.

Perhaps they are at a point in their lives when they feel the power or authority to challenge someone that they deem is out of line with their "norm".
It's a round-about way for them to self-validate at your expense.
If you resist and do not validate them, then you're the bad guy.

edit=>
I wanted to ad an example that most often when I'm accused of being aggressive is when I give them a "No" answer to something. Apparently that's not allowed as an answer to a question.
Perhaps the questions were actually "orders" disguised as questions?



tarantella64
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11 Aug 2014, 9:45 pm

Middle-aged women are far less likely to take s**t from men than young women are. We've just had too much experience to do that - decades' experience with men lying to us, trying to shift their work to us, trying to get us to do things for them, making excuses for not simply getting their work done. Middle-aged women in general have no patience for it. So if you are slow, not picking up on clues, not getting your things done satisfactorily, then unless they know and understand what the problem is -- you're right, you won't find much friendliness there.

If they do know, they're likely to be quite protective of you -- and protective of their workflow and organization as well. So if you make plain what the problem is, and the woman says oh I'm sorry, I understand now, don't then complain if she takes you off certain jobs she knows you're likely to have trouble with. Because she's not your occupational therapist; she's got a job to get done. She's not likely to have endless patience with your ego. Chances are she got where she did by working her way up past men who treated her like rubbish, proving herself more competent than others around her while also taking most of the load of raising children and looking after a household. So while she may have some sympathy, it's not going to be cartloads of it.



auntblabby
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11 Aug 2014, 10:08 pm

I have always had problems with middle class people in general who always seem to look down their noses at me.



arielhawksquill
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11 Aug 2014, 10:21 pm

Such women are the average human being in the US and therefore the arbiters of normalcy. They are, unluckily, almost diamentrically opposed to the average Aspie in temperament and interests.



auntblabby
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11 Aug 2014, 10:30 pm

they tend to have their hands full with middle-class men.



tarantella64
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11 Aug 2014, 10:37 pm

arielhawksquill wrote:
Such women are the average human being in the US and therefore the arbiters of normalcy. They are, unluckily, almost diamentrically opposed to the average Aspie in temperament and interests.


Well, think about the differences in experience.

You look at one of these women, and you can't see it on her face, but you're looking at someone who has done every s**t job in the world of dealing with people, just to keep things running. And she is someone who keeps things running and always has been, because she's known that if she doesn't, no one else will. She won't have high rank and a lot of money or respect to show for it. She's gone to work weeks after giving birth and with her insides still half falling out and just made things go. She's cleaned up everybody's puke and regularly both wipes and saves the asses of people far more important than she is. After years spent getting up in the middle of the night for children, or just up because of things that have to get done, she's got a raft of her own medical issues and a frail parent or two, and maybe two or three kids, and she still just turns up and does the job, every day. She knows damn well there isn't enough money for her to really retire, and maybe she's got a husband or two who robbed her along the way, maybe not, and that she'd better enjoy the life she's got, because it only gets harder from here.

A young clueless unhappy guy who's responsible for no one but himself, and wants looking after and support and patience, and isn't a bit practical about how he's going to make his way...yeah, you're right, you might get a "bless his heart", but she has not got time or likely much patience for his problems.



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11 Aug 2014, 10:42 pm

I'm in my 40's and I'm middle class. I have problems with just about every age group and class. I'm always rated average on my reviews and I always think I'm being yelled at by everyone. I went to Subway tonight and the lady that worked there yelled at me and said "Good Morning , I see you decided to get out of bed." I work two jobs and look tired all the time, even when I'm not " I've been called a trouble maker, bad apple, and toxic. No wonder I'm depressed all the time and wish I would not wake up in the morning.


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11 Aug 2014, 10:46 pm

Deb1970 wrote:
I'm in my 40's and I'm middle class. I have problems with just about every age group and class. I'm always rated average on my reviews and I always think I'm being yelled at by everyone. I went to Subway tonight and the lady that worked there yelled at me and said "Good Morning , I see you decided to get out of bed." I work two jobs and look tired all the time, even when I'm not " I've been called a trouble maker, bad apple, and toxic. No wonder I'm depressed all the time and wish I would not wake up in the morning.

I would drop a dime on that subway person.



olympiadis
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11 Aug 2014, 11:07 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
A young clueless unhappy guy who's responsible for no one but himself, and wants looking after and support and patience, and isn't a bit practical about how he's going to make his way...yeah, you're right, you might get a "bless his heart", but she has not got time or likely much patience for his problems.


That sounds like the assumption, or the putting of someone else in their place in a hierarchy of power/importance, which is an aggressive act.

I think there's one of the big places where the trouble starts.

At its heart it's the queen-bee syndrome, but it expresses itself in a great many ways, all of which require everyone in an environment to be mentally placed into a position in hierarchy.
It's a rewards/punishment system applied to other people for simply being who they are.
People who serve the idea of hierarchy feel the need to always compare each individual with other people and against themselves.
For instance you may allow someone very little respect as a person because you are sure that they have not suffered the same experiences that you have.



olympiadis
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11 Aug 2014, 11:11 pm

Deb1970 wrote:
I'm in my 40's and I'm middle class. I have problems with just about every age group and class. I'm always rated average on my reviews and I always think I'm being yelled at by everyone. I went to Subway tonight and the lady that worked there yelled at me and said "Good Morning , I see you decided to get out of bed." I work two jobs and look tired all the time, even when I'm not " I've been called a trouble maker, bad apple, and toxic. No wonder I'm depressed all the time and wish I would not wake up in the morning.


I'm sorry. I've been in similar situations and that is depressing.
Some sort of schedule change is probably in order until you find a "happy spot".



tarantella64
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11 Aug 2014, 11:27 pm

olympiadis wrote:
tarantella64 wrote:
A young clueless unhappy guy who's responsible for no one but himself, and wants looking after and support and patience, and isn't a bit practical about how he's going to make his way...yeah, you're right, you might get a "bless his heart", but she has not got time or likely much patience for his problems.


That sounds like the assumption, or the putting of someone else in their place in a hierarchy of power/importance, which is an aggressive act.

I think there's one of the big places where the trouble starts.

At its heart it's the queen-bee syndrome, but it expresses itself in a great many ways, all of which require everyone in an environment to be mentally placed into a position in hierarchy.
It's a rewards/punishment system applied to other people for simply being who they are.
People who serve the idea of hierarchy feel the need to always compare each individual with other people and against themselves.
For instance you may allow someone very little respect as a person because you are sure that they have not suffered the same experiences that you have.


That's about as serious a misreading as you could have. But it does make sense if you can't shift your frame of reference outside yourself, and have trouble empathizing with others.

It has nothing to do with hierarchy/importance or putting others down. It has everything to do with being massively overworked for decades (and poorly compensated for it), and having ongoing responsibilities that mean ongoing overwork, and then being confronted with someone who has a very light load and wants continuous special allowances -- meaning that this person will have to take on more work in order to compensate for you. Which is why you're likely to get a rather brusque "if you cannot do the job, then this isn't the job for you", rather than help. Your missing social cues, not understanding instructions, taking a long time, etc., means she has to do yet more work. And she really doesn't want to. She's carried more than enough, more than her share -- and the fact is no one has stepped in to help her, nor is anyone likely to. She is done being burnt by being nicer than everyone else around. All it does is work her to death.

Also, if she doesn't know about your AS, then you just look like yet another man who thinks he can dump his responsibilities on other people and get away with it. And she will absolutely not react well to that.