War in Ukraine about to expand ?

Post Reply New Topic

Unfortunately I think that is the way it is going. I think Russia may openly invade Ukraine soon. I hope I am wrong. This reminds me a lot of the old Iron Curtain days and the Hungarian and Czech uprisings.

Ukraine will not be able, alone, to stop the Russian forces. The questions I have are two. 1. How much of Ukraine does Putin want: The eastern part with the main ethnic Russian population, or all of Ukraine? 2. will any country, the EU, NATO, or the USA aid Ukraine militarily?

I also wonder when the history books will say the 2nd Cold War started. Is it now, or was it two years ago in Syria?

whatever happens, as a US citizen, i sure hope the US stays out of it militarily. we certainly don't need a war with russia.

many believe he wants to revive the soviet union. one a kgb, always a kgb. Ukraine as an independent nation is running on fumes. and nobody will do anything about it. pray for poor Ukraine!

An interesting article about the effects of the economic sanctions.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/r ... 05148.html

our sanctions will be about as effective as those levied against saddam back in the day- meaning laughably worthless. they only hurt the little people while leaving the big people untouched.

Ex-commies fighting ex-commies

Fanatical Arabs fighting other less fanatical Arabs

I fail to see the problem.

Given Ukraine supported the Nazis I'm not particularly enamored at the idea of western troops putting their necks on the line for these people. Already it's cost the Australian taxpayer $400 million in lost trade because our prime minister verbally attacked Putin.

still that doesn't take away from the fact that putin is a kgb thug and bully on an international scale.

I have Ukrainian heritage, and I think Putin is an as*hole. He better not expand that damn war, or he'll have hell to pay. I don't think we should intervene unless it escalates, however. Poking a bear is not a good idea. I'm Canadian, but I'm speaking on behalf of the US as well, as we tend to join each other on these sort of things, the major exception being the war in Iraq.

I don't see Putin backing down. He is on the roll and probably thinks 'The West' will not get involved in Ukraine militarily. That is they won't actually do any fighting (air or ground), though they might send Ukraine military as well as humanitarian aid. I believe he is correct in thinking the West will not fight for Ukraine. If we were going to do that we would have already started mobilizing and postioning troops in the area. The worst he has to fear is economic sanctions, which although troublesome are not usually capable of actually stopping things from happening. They are more like fines imposed for breaking international law. He has an Ace in the hole with Gas revenue to prop him up, unless the price of gas falls significantly. With unrest and fighting as usual in the Middle East that is not likely to happen. He also, importantly has public support in Russia.

What is sad to me about this and other places in that area, including Russia itself, is my sense of missed opportunity to forge closer ties and more friendly relations after the breakup of the old Soviet Union in 1991.

Sadly though, this is a situation that clearly sends a message out: Don't ever give up your nukes.

I hope this or something else does not start WWIII.

I really don't see this starting WWIII. That would require NATO or The USA fighting Russia directly and I don't see that happening with Ukraine. Ukraine has minimal treaty support if invaded. Had they been full member of EU or NATO it might have been different. Putin is likely acting knowing all this and before treaties can be established.

The current coup regime in Kiev are not very good guys, assorted oligarchs and extreme nationalist thugs. They've declared roughly half the country terrorists and have been waging a war of attrition in in the east of the country. If the coup is thought of as legitimate then how can the east of the country be denied self-determination? If they want to be independent or allied or even part of Russia then I don't see how anybody can tell them they can't. I think Russia has acted pretty rationally in all of this consider the US/EU funded and carried out a coup that brought a radically anti-Russian government to power right on their doorstep, the US wouldn't tolerate it if Russia/China decided to do that in Mexico would they?

There's a little logic there, but I think mostly forgetfulness.

You forget the previous regime used snipers to kill dozens of its own citizens in the Kiev protests.

You forget the previous regime abandoned the previous track to draw closer to the EU in favor of being bankrolled and proxy controlled by Russia, which was what started the protests. The massacre of its own citizens is what brought on the coup.

You forget Russia has incited, armed, trained and provided soldiers to invade a different country (Ukraine). They started with Crimea and then Eastern Ukraine... where do they stop btw?

Does Mexico have the right to invade Texas, New Mexico, California, etc because of large ethnic Mexican population?

There was never proof that Yanukovych was responsible for the snipers, it wasn't the Berkut. There is plenty reason to believe that it was Maiden provocateurs who fired on protesters and Berkut alike.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1XVVKlIcbE[/youtube]

Crimea voted to join Russia, do you doubt that is the will of the people there? Crimea is mostly ethnic Russian and saw the government in Kiev as illegitimate and hostile to them, a good portion of the military and police defected so the accusations of Russian troops has been vastly exaggerated. You can have an issue with how it was done but the end result is still the valid expression of the wishes of the people of the Crimean peninsula. Do you find the Kosovo to be legitimate? There is no way you can deny the self determination of Crimea. I think it applies to eastern Ukraine as well, the people that live there are the ones I side with. Western Ukraine should have the right as well but they apparently think it is right subjugate half the country.

The US and EU really have no moral high ground to condemn the interference in other countries, they have their own ulterior motives in Ukraine. The coup government has killed way more civilians now than Yanukovych supposedly did, its indefensible imo.