'Clickers' as reinforcers in ABA

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My son has had an problem with attending during ABA sessions. Much of the therapists time would end up being devoted to trying to get him to stop stimming and attend to tasks, reinforcement was being given for attending but it was slow and/or not effective enough.
Data was taken and showed that 40% of the therapists time was spent trying to get him to attend.

A clicker was introduced as a reinforcer for attending. This is actually just an app on an ipod that makes a click sound. The idea behind the clicker apparently seems to be:
- It's a unique sound in the environment so is noticed by my son immediately - as opposed to verbal requests.
- Because it's noticed immediately it is a fast re-inforcer, and unlike food doesn't need to be consumed which is a process that takes time.

Initially it was paired with other re-inforcement, but that was faded, and as well as neing used for bringing him to attention it was also used as a re-inforcer for doing a task correctly. They do not use it for the whole session yet, but when it is used the therapists tell me it has greatly improved his attending, and also his success in his work.

An example is we made a new set of laminated visuals for him to work with in ABA, and in a clicker session he was able to identify and match them with immediate success and do it quickly. The therapist said she brought them out and it was "bang, bang, bang" fast and 100% accurate which hasn't been the case before.

So it's early days but it seems to be working, I believe the idea came from this womans work: http://www.clickertraining.com/node/159

So the purpose of my post is to ask has anyone else come across this, and if so what was you experience and what do you think of it? I wonder if long term it will keep working and things like that.

Interesting will try. Sorry but what do you mean by attending? Paying attention?

I've only come across clicker training before in relation to training dogs, but it does make a lot of sense, especially in the sense of it being a unique noise in the environment. I suppose it's similar to the way people tap a glass with a spoon at a reception to get people's attention when someone is to make an announcement. It's not a loud noise, but it's unusual within that environment.

Yes, exactly.

Thats an excellent analogy to understand how it works, I hadn't thought of that. And I guess like anything if over-used then it becomes part of the environment and would lose it's uniqueness. I think this is why they are limiting the frequency of use at the moment.

Does he have sensory issues that would make the clicking unpleasant/painful?

Does your son understand verbal language? If I were the patient, I might feel demeaned if this were used on me.

He doesn't have sensory issues with sound, and he does understand verbal language..when he is paying attention.
If you are an adult then I would expect you to find it demeaning, but I don't really think he will feel that way due to his age and ability.

I suppose that at pre-school age I might not have found it demeaning. At age 10, I might though. It's hard to precisely recall what my state of mind was almost 2 decades ago though.

Most of the educational iPad games use one sound for "right answer" and a different sound for "try again". I wonder if this becomes similar -- since it was initially paired with a reward, it becomes a proxy for "good job"...

Interesting. I, too, have only heard of this in relation to training dogs. It feels uncomfortable in that respect. But if you think about it, ABA training is really similar to the way we train dogs as well. I could see my 12yo actually not minding a clicker as reinforcer, but I can't quite wrap my head around that idea. It doesn't feel good to me at first thought.

One of our ABA therapist had us tell my guy" Touch your nose and touch your ear". It could have been anything, but it had to be something he could easily do. He really enjoys doing it for some reason. We use it if he gets distracted and it usually snaps his attention back. It is a just a longer version of a click, though I thing physically doing something helps him too. It works and he doesn't mind it.

At first I thought it was better than the clicker, because the connotation of the a dog trainer, but honestly having him doing silly tricks is probably worse and definitely socially worse. You could prob get by with some form of click in school but he couldn't go around touching his nose and ear every time he stimmed or zoned out.

I don't know. I know right now it works well for him and we have been using it for 6 months. We try to use it only after we tried saying his name and then touching his hand. If those don't work we pull out the touch your nose and ear. I say if it works for him and he nor you mind it(sensory or philosophically), use it. You can always fade it or transition it out.

I think ABA therapy is cruel and as someone pointed out, autistic children/people are NOT dogs.

So how is the kid supposed to relieve stress if they aren't ever allowed to stim...unless the stims are harmful I think its a waste of time for therapists to try to force people with autism not to do it.

Why do you think ABA therapy is cruel? I am genuinely curious. My son has been doing ABA at our home for about 7 months and he enjoys it and we have seen major progress in his speech, ability to attend and social skills(turn taking, creative play). Did you have a bad experience with ABA?

Sweetleaf
I didn't get from the OP that they were using to get rid of stims, but to bring back his attention during work. In our ABA they never even suggested removal or modification of his stims.

In the OP it says the therapist spends a lot of time trying to get them to 'stop stimming' so that is why I came to the conclusion part of the 'goal' is to force them to just not stim rather than address why they stim, redirect harmful stims to non-harmful ones or remove the stressors causing the need for excessive stimming that interferes with focus.

Sweetleaf you are correct. I re read the OP and it did say for stimming and attending. When I originally read it, I took that it was for attending to a task, not to stop the stimming in general, just to refocus on work. I agree as long as the stim isn't dangerous or detrimental to the child, then a stim should be allowed and stimming at home should be protected.

In my case my guy sometimes will stim because he is bored in ABA and doesn't want to attend. They give him a minute or so to stim and then refocus him. I was thinking Nostromo was referring to this which I at least don't believe is stopping stims, but working on attending, at least in my guy's case. He isn't having sensory issues that need to be address and we never stop his stims in private or public when it isn't related to him attending to a important task. Like stop stimming out on the cool cloud and cross the street or stop stimming out on the way the glass shines in the light or you are going to spill your drink. And to be fair, sometimes stop stimming out and continue to pick up your toys so we can get your behind to bed.