Aspie food issue or typical 4 yr old BS...

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zette
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02 Sep 2014, 1:46 am

If it's typical 4 yo BS, the expert is supposed to be Ellen Satter who wrote Child of Mine about picky eating. Basically her advice boils down to: don't make a power struggle out of it, present food family style (always including something they like), and let the child pick what and how much to eat.

If it's sensory, the books to read are Food Chaining and Just Take a Bite, that describe the Sequential Oral Sensory approach used by OT's and feeding therapists. We tried SOS when DS was 6, and I found it to be geared toward preschoolers. DS was not amused and the therapist let him go as a client after 3 months of no progress. I wonder if it would work for him if it was done age appropriately now that he's less stressed.

Then you've got the folks who swear by gluten and casein free (GFCF) diets, or paleo, or Feingold, etc, the theory being that if you correct the diet the kid will be hungry for the right things. Haven't tried these myself, as I'm not convinced and the diets tend to be too much work.

Writing this post reminds me that I want to take another look at Eating for Autism by Elizabeth Strickland. A friend attended her seminar and recommended it. She has a chapter on feeding issues, although I don't recall getting any gems from it the last time I looked at it, and I was put off by the inclusion of GFCF recipes.

My hope is to try a kids cooking class, if I can find one that is actually cooking real food and not "let's make caterpillars out of rice crispies and gummy worms". :roll:



Last edited by zette on 02 Sep 2014, 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ellemenope
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02 Sep 2014, 3:00 am

zette wrote:
If it's typical 4 yo BS, the expert is supposed to be Ellen Satter who wrote Child of Mine about picky eating. Basically her advice boils down to: don't make a power struggle out of it, present food family style (always including something they like), and let the child pick what and how much to eat.

If it's sensory, the books to read are Food Chaining and Just Take a Bite, that describe the Sequential Oral Sensory approach used by OT's and feeding therapists. We tried SOS when DS was 6, and I found it to be geared toward preschoolers. DS was not amused and the therapist let him go as a client after 3 months of no progress. I wonder if it would work for him if it was done age appropriately now that he's less stressed.

Then you've got the folks who swear by gluten and casein free (GFCF) diets, or paleo, or Feingold, etc, the theory being that if you correct the diet the kid will be hungry for the right things. Haven't tried these myself, as I'm not convinced and the diets tend to be too much work.

Writing this post reminds me that I want to take another look at Eating for Autism by Elizabeth Strickland. A friend attended her seminar and recommended it. She has a chapter on feeding issues, although I don't recall getting any gems from it the last time I looked at it, and I was put off by the inclusion of GFCF recipes.

My hope is to try a kids cooking class, if I can find one that is actually cooking real food and not "let's make caterpillars out of rice crispier and gummy worms". :roll:

Thank you! I'll definitely look into those books.
We actually do GFCF (and we try to avoid soy and soy byproducts as well), although my son eats goat and sheep dairy products as the different type of protein doesn't have an effect on him the way cow's dairy does. It's not too much work if you are used to staying away from processed stuff and we don't eat a lot of wheat products anyway.
Like a few of the issues we have now, I think this one really got a lot worse when he was in school last year. His teacher just could not get the idea that pressing issues with him made them (alot) worse not better.

I do a lot of baking with my son and I've had lots of luck adding veggies into muffins (pumpkin, zucchini, etc)- he sees them go in and is open to eating them that way. But that's a lot of work to do very regularly and muffins still have lots of sugar... that's why he likes them! A cooking course or something like that may be helpful, he likes reading cookbooks (or any books). I'll look for a kids' cookbook.
Thanks again.



setai
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02 Sep 2014, 4:16 pm

My 4yr too is a very picky eater. He like many of your kids was a great eater until 2/2.5yr and then went radically down hill. His is mostly texture, dry crunchy things w/o any flavoring(think bbq chips) on them or extra texture on them(think chocolate chip in cookies, he will eat chocolate chips and he will eat cookies but not together). He eats a few different dry cereals, crisp french fries, very crispy bacon and microwaved turkey peperoni. Besides that it is a handful of snack options(popcorn, almonds, pretzels, lentil chips, fruit gummies) and a few candies and plain iced sugar cookies. He eats very browned grilled cheese as long as we are specific about his cheese and bread. We get his fruit and veggies in with V8 fusion which sneaks a full serving of veggies with the serving of fruit. I have also had luck mixing 50% tangerine with 50% carrot juice.

You might think this just a texture issue, but there are weird exceptions and quirks. He won?t eat anything not crunchy, not even cake or ice cream, however somehow my husband went a got a doughnut from the local shop and he offered him a bite(we always offer even if we know he won?t, just in case) and he ate it. He won?t eat doughnut from anywhere else and I even made homemade doughnuts and he wouldn?t even try them. Also he like gardetto?s but he won?t eat the squiggly breadstick but will eat the straight breadstick. He begs for a drink of my coffee, but won?t drink milk. He has lost and gained a few preferences in his crunchy menu, but nothing quite as extreme as your child.

I don?t think either is being a bratty 4yr, but I do think being 4 doesn?t help. Around 2/2.5 when food started being a really issue we had a problem with pizza. He liked the Trader Joes cheese pizza, so we would get one every weekend. He would happily hold it the rest of the trip and we could barely get it out of his hands to get it scanned. Whenever we went to TJ he would insist on getting one or we would have a meltdown. Suddenly he refused to it eat pizza(tj or real pizza) but the need to get it stayed as we were slowly stacking up pizza faster than my husband and I were willing to eat it. I started picking a different pizza I liked better and then distracting him down the isle and after about 6-7 months we no longer had a stack of pizza in our freezer. There was clearly some conflict in him between what he wanted and what he would eat.

We just started a novel food program in ABA. We are starting with apple slices since it was one of the last foods to drop off, also it is crunchy. They made us ID a food he really liked that he would only get during novel food training. He has to interact with the food and then gets some treat, 10 times then he gets his full snack. It is going touch the apple, pick up the apple, put apple to mouth, take a bite of apple. We are to pick up the apple stage and it has caused a bit of stress around it, but he has no trouble touching or picking up the apple slice. I think he gets where this train is moving and isn?t pleased, but is willing to do the silly task to get Apple Jacks(our target treat). I really think the mouth is going to cause some behavior, but I honestly doubt there is enough junk food in the world to change his mind about putting something he doesn?t want in his mouth. It seems as distressing as when his shoe falls off, a big issue in our world. We are both willing to listen to experts and try, but are not expecting a miracle. I mean if this worked why wouldn?t everybody be doing it.

Luckily his is growing really well, is healthy and takes his vitamins so I have allowed myself a break on this.

Hang in there with your picky eater, you are not alone. I like the thought that it will get better at 6 or 7. If this ABA thing works, I will shout it to the rooftops and share.



khchristo
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03 Sep 2014, 8:30 am

ellemenope wrote:
I know I am not the only one here who is dealing with kids' food issues and sensitivities. I can especially understand some of my son's difficulties because I have my own strange food issues I've only just come to recognize are probably due to my own AS traits. Most of my issues have to do with making food decisions. For example, even when ravenously hungry (especially when ravenously hungry?) I find it extremely difficult to choose a restaurant or menu item. It's like I'm so hungry that I can't stand thinking about the choices and almost would rather not choose and just continue to be hungry. My husband and I used to travel a lot and it was a common problem. Since having my kids and needing to think about their meals before my own, I've relaxed on it- and when I can't settle my mind on something that I can stomach eating, I just let my husband choose and I eat whatever he picks. I also sometimes can not feel like eating or forget to eat (when absorbed in something) until I'm painfully hungry and then have the same problem of not being able to decide what I should eat.

I see my son experiencing very similar problems so I do try to be as understanding as possible. He used to eat almost anything when he was younger, but around 2.5 started with pickiness that got more and more extreme and the foods he would eat became more limited. The thing that I am having trouble with is that there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to his refusals. It's like some days (or for a period of days or weeks) he will want to eat a certain fruit all the time (lately it's nectarines, throughout the summer it was strawberries and blueberries) and then he will suddenly just refuse to eat it. Or he will only eat a certain food like grilled cheese sandwiches for lunch every day then one day NOPE, no more. And then it's back to trying to find something he will eat. I really really can work with him if he decides he wants to eat something and it's healthy- I'm totally happy making grilled cheese sandwiches every single day. Sometimes we get in a good groove where there a good number of foods he will eat (our latest good period it was roast chicken, hot dogs, french fries, berries, apples, one brand of cereal, and a few snacks like popcorn, pretzels, cookies- those are easy but we try to limit). It's the sudden refusals of foods that he has previously loved that is starting to drive me nuts and really leaves us in a lurch when we've bought a cupboard full of his cereal that he now won't eat or a fridge full of berries. And over time, although he does rarely add a new food to his repertoire, the actual number of foods he eats is growing smaller.

I do always offer some of what the rest of the family is eating and he sometimes does try a taste (we start with a lick and usually it doesn't go further than that).

There are a number of reasons I question whether some of his behaviour is bratty 4-yo BS that I can push back on a bit rather than Aspie issues that we should work around. My son will often ask for a number of things and quickly refuse those foods when we try to confirm what he's requesting or (more frustratingly) when we have prepared it and brought it to him. It does seem like a typical kid game or power play in these instances. We aren't bringing him foods he doesn't like or isn't familiar with and we are bringing him what he ASKS for. But he will grow very upset and often end up eating nothing at all. This is kind of similar to my issue above...or is it? I don't know. Either way, he doesn't ever see or hear me struggling with food decisions- I keep it to myself and it doesn't happen often at all anymore, so I don't think he's learning this from me.
Also, after refusing all of his preferred foods, he will constantly just ask for junk food that he knows he cannot have at meal times.

Lately he has been refusing to eat and then complaining about wanting to eat and being so hungry. And obviously his hunger has a domino effect on the rest of his behaviour and mood. And his sleep- he has been waking up at night saying he's hungry and often still refusing to eat. Sometimes if we are at the end of our rope and we give him a hard time about it (like at 3 in the morning when he wakes up screaming about being hungry after we tried to feed him every last one of his preferred foods for dinner and he refused) he WILL give in and eat. But we usually try not to lose our sh*t with him over food because we don't want to make it into a bigger issue than it already is becoming.

But I just don't get it. I've read a lot of the posts about food/eating issues and it seems that a lot of the other AS kids' issues fall in line with certain sensitivities to textures, colours, food not touching etc. THAT MAKES SENSE. My boy just seems to pick his choice foods and on a whim then refuse them or change his preferences. Maddening! AND he does a lot better when out at other peoples' houses or restaurants- he is more open to trying new foods and even complete whole dishes of new things. Not at home, not with mom! :evil:

Now my 1.5 year old is following his lead and learning to arbitrarily refuse even choice foods, demand other things etc. If I can get her to eat seperately from him she does so much better. But that's not realistic- I'd be spending the whole day just feeding them at staggered times.
Meal times are such a stress- I'm so sick of feeding my kids. :roll: I feel dread and panic when it's time to go into the kitchen. During the day I don't even prepare food for myself- I just eat everything the kids are refusing otherwise we have a bin full of wasted food everyday (we still do anyway).


So... does this sound familiar to anyone? What is going on here? Is this a power struggle with typical 4-yo behaviour or is this Aspie stuff? And what to do?
I wish I could just set out a trough of soylent green for these kids in the morning and be done for the day. :lol:


My son is 7 and does the EXACT same thing.He is down to two different types of junk food and that's it.Have tried EVERYTHING.Doctors have NO ANSWERS!! I'm a nervous wreck!



Wreck-Gar
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04 Sep 2014, 8:56 pm

double post



Last edited by Wreck-Gar on 04 Sep 2014, 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wreck-Gar
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04 Sep 2014, 8:58 pm

I am not going to read every word here but both my kids are like this. The one on the spectrum mostly east bread and rice though he will at least taste new stuff. And like you said sometimes a favorite will suddenly get refused for no apparent reason.

Kid #2 (no diagnosis of anything, age 4) is infinitely worse and will only eat things that are PLAIN except for mac and cheese. He can't explain why, just says other stuff is disgusting. I remember being like this as a kid...for example I always wanted a burger with only ketchup. Then one day (I think I was in the 6th grade) I was so starving I ate a burger with other stuff on it and guess what, it was fine. Other things I didn't like because of the texture...I still won't drink milk or eat anything creamy. I can't stand the texture. Bleah