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nutbag
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03 Mar 2007, 7:50 am

A couple of years ago, after friends had me watch "A Beautiful Mind", I again went looking for data in high IQ folk.

On one site I found a person who qualified his difficulty with the pattern recognition portion of these tests. He wrote of a question he has missed. It was one of those "Which of the following does not belong with the others" questions.

He had seen immediately that the names of all the items _except for one began with the same letter. But that pattern, although real, was not the one tested for. The test author,s mind was not sufficiently stochastic it seems.

I wonder then just how relevant such tests are for those of us outside the norms. I personally dismiss them as irrelevant.


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Litguy
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03 Mar 2007, 8:04 am

nutbag wrote:
I wonder then just how relevant such tests are for those of us outside the norms. I personally dismiss them as irrelevant.
Well, it depends on how you look at it. What an IQ test was originally designed to do (back in the simpler days of 1905) was to weed out those with "mental retardation." That, of course, was seen as everyone who did not process the world around them the way the average person did.

And, so, as our (at least OUR :lol: ) understanding of what being atypical means becomes wider, IQ tests should become less relevant.

Many so-called psychologists, however, still live within the paradigm of the past, even though they might tell themselves that they do not.

I imagine that there are some here who did very poorly on IQ testing (for the reasons that you cite), and, others, like me, who did much better on any kind of standardized test than they ever did on "criterion based" school work, because they could not bring themselves to seriously study subjects outside of their own interests.



SteveK
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03 Mar 2007, 8:31 am

Litguy wrote:
nutbag wrote:
I wonder then just how relevant such tests are for those of us outside the norms. I personally dismiss them as irrelevant.
Well, it depends on how you look at it. What an IQ test was originally designed to do (back in the simpler days of 1905) was to weed out those with "mental retardation." That, of course, was seen as everyone who did not process the world around them the way the average person did.

And, so, as our (at least OUR :lol: ) understanding of what being atypical means becomes wider, IQ tests should become less relevant.

Many so-called psychologists, however, still live within the paradigm of the past, even though they might tell themselves that they do not.

I imagine that there are some here who did very poorly on IQ testing (for the reasons that you cite), and, others, like me, who did much better on any kind of standardized test than they ever did on "criterion based" school work, because they could not bring themselves to seriously study subjects outside of their own interests.


Well, I must have run into the incorrect correct answer problem like 20 times! MENSA tests seem to be the worst there.

HECK YEAH! There was a problem on the last IQ test I took that used the pythagorean theorem. Maybe THAT is what the test author was looking for. The fact is that even as a 3 year old I wouldn't have failed that part of the test. It always seemed too obvious. GRANTED I may not have been as exact as I can be now. I didn't know even if there was a theorem. I wasn't even good at math. I always could get it close enough for such tests!

Steve



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03 Mar 2007, 7:40 pm

As stated earlier, the whole concept of IQ tests were a form of Eugenics. I've read some things on the creators, and it's kind of chilling. Also the earlier tests had a lot based on cultural knowledge--for example there may be questions that an American would know easily, but recent immigrants to the country would have no idea of. These poor souls scored very low on the test, and were branded as "stupid". (Questions involved things like the New York Yankees and Babe Ruth--not something likely to be on the front of the mind of many non-English speaking citizens at the time).


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E7ernal
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03 Mar 2007, 8:00 pm

I took one from a book the other day and stated the odd one out based on the number of syllables in each word (none made any sense). It turned out that they were all anagrams which needed to be worked out then you choose the odd one out :?



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03 Mar 2007, 9:12 pm

As I recall IQ tests measure four things, I flunked at least two, and scored high overall. Not only did I lose faith in tests, but in the people who took them.

What it was designed for was a normal curve, 80-120, for the world has no use for people outside that.

Overall scores have been going up one point a decade for a hundred years, are people getting smarter?

Taking the other side, the Vikings had an IQ of 2 ?

I never made any money off of my overall IQ, but spaceial relationships, repairing machines, has been great.

Anyone over 120 should have a second series of tests, perhaps they cheated.

I am a truely tolerant person, unless you cross me, and I have tried to understand as Professionals with an overall IQ of 110 tried to describe savants, geniuses, and other people with partial scores three times theirs.

All I could gather is, with the help of the drug companies, they are seeking a cure.

Their is some unfairness in life. Really. The musical types, do band together. Math, Mechanics, Physics, do not have an easy life, making music, having people clap and throw money, getting groupies who will do anything, having their own phamacutical industry, getting recording contracts, gold records, for two minutes and thirteen seconds of work. Becoming world famous at seventeen for coming up with Sh La La, Do Wop Do Ditty Ba, does not happen in our fields.

A Nobel pays well because they know no one will learn your name in the first place, much less remember it. It is not a lot in the world, but is more than anyone in the sciences will ever see.

The greatest Doctor of High Energy Physics I know, is now running a bead store, and finally making some real money.

I have always wanted to open a remote place where people could genius for room and board. They will have to do something useful like pick fruit, but the rest of the time they would have food and shelter, and a peaceful place to sit, rock, and ponder. Who knows, one might come up with a better way to pick fruit.

I do know that if we stick to Math, Physics, Mechanics, we will starve, and people will hate us. Throw in the aspie thing, and they will beat us up, but farm laborers get respect.



SteveK
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03 Mar 2007, 9:33 pm

Inventor wrote:
As I recall IQ tests measure four things, I flunked at least two, and scored high overall. Not only did I lose faith in tests, but in the people who took them.

What it was designed for was a normal curve, 80-120, for the world has no use for people outside that.

Overall scores have been going up one point a decade for a hundred years, are people getting smarter?

Taking the other side, the Vikings had an IQ of 2 ?

I never made any money off of my overall IQ, but spaceial relationships, repairing machines, has been great.

Anyone over 120 should have a second series of tests, perhaps they cheated.

I am a truely tolerant person, unless you cross me, and I have tried to understand as Professionals with an overall IQ of 110 tried to describe savants, geniuses, and other people with partial scores three times theirs.

All I could gather is, with the help of the drug companies, they are seeking a cure.

Their is some unfairness in life. Really. The musical types, do band together. Math, Mechanics, Physics, do not have an easy life, making music, having people clap and throw money, getting groupies who will do anything, having their own phamacutical industry, getting recording contracts, gold records, for two minutes and thirteen seconds of work. Becoming world famous at seventeen for coming up with Sh La La, Do Wop Do Ditty Ba, does not happen in our fields.

A Nobel pays well because they know no one will learn your name in the first place, much less remember it. It is not a lot in the world, but is more than anyone in the sciences will ever see.

The greatest Doctor of High Energy Physics I know, is now running a bead store, and finally making some real money.

I have always wanted to open a remote place where people could genius for room and board. They will have to do something useful like pick fruit, but the rest of the time they would have food and shelter, and a peaceful place to sit, rock, and ponder. Who knows, one might come up with a better way to pick fruit.

I do know that if we stick to Math, Physics, Mechanics, we will starve, and people will hate us. Throw in the aspie thing, and they will beat us up, but farm laborers get respect.


One thing is for sure. You have a FUNNY sense of humor. IQ tests at least give a broad guideline, and show weak areas. I just don't believe the are a good comparative tool, or precise. ALSO, there should be a way to provide feedback.

Steve