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Violynne
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02 Nov 2014, 7:47 am

So I recently asked my mom "How do people decide that they are ''a pair'?"
She immediately dismissed the topic, saying "You'll just know." She didn't seem to want to talk about it (maybe because we were at the dinner table--I'm not sure).

I guess what I'm mostly interested in is this: do two people, before they start dating, mutually agree to begin seriously dating? Or is it more subtle than that? How does one tell if something is a date rather than a normal get-together with a friend?



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02 Nov 2014, 8:40 am

Violynne wrote:
So I recently asked my mom "How do people decide that they are ''a pair'?"
She immediately dismissed the topic, saying "You'll just know." She didn't seem to want to talk about it (maybe because we were at the dinner table--I'm not sure).

I guess what I'm mostly interested in is this: do two people, before they start dating, mutually agree to begin seriously dating? Or is it more subtle than that? How does one tell if something is a date rather than a normal get-together with a friend?


I'd have to answer it with: You just know you are, and if you don't know, you are not dating. That's also part of my claims that I have never dated anybody, have not talked about being exclusive, or together with anybody. In all the serious relationships I've been in, this have been known by both parties without talking about it.



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02 Nov 2014, 9:05 pm

Violynne wrote:
How does one tell if something is a date rather than a normal get-together with a friend?

Romance & flirting.

I know that answer isn't going to be enough, but I've had very long discussions about this topic in the past and I don't think I have successfully provided understanding through my arguments, so I'll just leave it there :)



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06 Dec 2014, 10:06 am

Violynne wrote:
So I recently asked my mom "How do people decide that they are ''a pair'?"
She immediately dismissed the topic, saying "You'll just know." She didn't seem to want to talk about it (maybe because we were at the dinner table--I'm not sure).

I guess what I'm mostly interested in is this: do two people, before they start dating, mutually agree to begin seriously dating? Or is it more subtle than that? How does one tell if something is a date rather than a normal get-together with a friend?

My view seems to be pretty unique in all this… Most people seem to draw a distinction. I prefer not to draw any distinction.

A date is a date is a date. People generally seem to associate a "date-date" with some romantic LTR precursor. It's NOT. A date is two or more people getting together to hang out and get to know each other better. I say "two or more" because I see no difference between couple-dating and group-dating. Did you make an arrangement to see each other? Yes? Then it's a date. Context doesn't matter. Purpose doesn't matter. A date is a date.

A normal get-together with a friend IS a date.

What happens over time with a lot of friends is people pair up with those they feel some attraction to. For some reason, our culture seems to encourage doing this quickly, and it's not a very smart thing to do--at least not for your emotional well-being. But over time you'll tend to hang out with this guy or this girl more than any other guy or girl. What will eventually happen is you'll hang out with that person almost exclusively. You'll likely feel some physical attraction as well as an emotional attraction. It'll be pretty obvious, even if you are bad at non-verbal cues/signals or are just generally clueless.

What will happen is you or your partner will bring it up in conversation. "Hey, you know, we've been hanging out a lot lately, and you said you're not seeing anyone else. I'm not seeing anyone else. And you did kiss me/let me kiss you, so…are we, like, a couple or something? Because…I think it's cool if we are… I just want to make sure it's ok if I tell everyone you're my gf/bf/whatever."

Something like that, which can be more or less awkward depending on your comfort level and confidence or personality. That's the kinda goofball thing I've done back in the day, but you hopefully get the point.



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06 Dec 2014, 2:49 pm

Angelrho that is exactly how I think it should be. I totally agree with you, I have no idea how other people end up together and this has never happened to me, but it's how I think things should work and it's how I would like things to work with guys I like, but nothing ever happens, mostly because they don't even want to just hang out with me as a friend so that connection never happens.



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06 Dec 2014, 3:01 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Violynne wrote:
So I recently asked my mom "How do people decide that they are ''a pair'?"
She immediately dismissed the topic, saying "You'll just know." She didn't seem to want to talk about it (maybe because we were at the dinner table--I'm not sure).

I guess what I'm mostly interested in is this: do two people, before they start dating, mutually agree to begin seriously dating? Or is it more subtle than that? How does one tell if something is a date rather than a normal get-together with a friend?

My view seems to be pretty unique in all this… Most people seem to draw a distinction. I prefer not to draw any distinction.

A date is a date is a date. People generally seem to associate a "date-date" with some romantic LTR precursor. It's NOT. A date is two or more people getting together to hang out and get to know each other better. I say "two or more" because I see no difference between couple-dating and group-dating. Did you make an arrangement to see each other? Yes? Then it's a date. Context doesn't matter. Purpose doesn't matter. A date is a date.

A normal get-together with a friend IS a date.

What happens over time with a lot of friends is people pair up with those they feel some attraction to. For some reason, our culture seems to encourage doing this quickly, and it's not a very smart thing to do--at least not for your emotional well-being. But over time you'll tend to hang out with this guy or this girl more than any other guy or girl. What will eventually happen is you'll hang out with that person almost exclusively. You'll likely feel some physical attraction as well as an emotional attraction. It'll be pretty obvious, even if you are bad at non-verbal cues/signals or are just generally clueless.

What will happen is you or your partner will bring it up in conversation. "Hey, you know, we've been hanging out a lot lately, and you said you're not seeing anyone else. I'm not seeing anyone else. And you did kiss me/let me kiss you, so…are we, like, a couple or something? Because…I think it's cool if we are… I just want to make sure it's ok if I tell everyone you're my gf/bf/whatever."

Something like that, which can be more or less awkward depending on your comfort level and confidence or personality. That's the kinda goofball thing I've done back in the day, but you hopefully get the point.


Yes.



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06 Dec 2014, 3:58 pm

hurtloam wrote:
Angelrho that is exactly how I think it should be. I totally agree with you, I have no idea how other people end up together and this has never happened to me, but it's how I think things should work and it's how I would like things to work with guys I like, but nothing ever happens, mostly because they don't even want to just hang out with me as a friend so that connection never happens.

So your issue seems to be figuring out how to move it forward in a more romantic direction.

Every situation is different, but the more time you give it and the more guys you hang out with, it WILL eventually happen just based on probabilities. I'm purely speculating here, so take it with a grain of salt: What I think is happening with you is you aren't effectively communicating an interest in those guys. I'm not saying you aren't interested or that you aren't communicating, I'm just saying it's not as clear as it could be. I have the same issue, too, and some people are just hard to crack.

You'll either want to work on how you communicate your interest in someone to encourage a mutual attraction, or you'll need to take the initiative. Men are generally expected to take the initiative in forming romantic relationships, so if it comes down to a woman "being the boss" you risk being a turnoff. Personally, I think it's sexy when women make the first move on me when I'm just not getting the message!

Or it could just be you haven't found the right guy yet. Just keep meeting new guys every chance you get. No matter what you do, keep the guy talking. You barely have to say a word and he'll like you instantly.



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07 Dec 2014, 7:30 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Violynne wrote:
So I recently asked my mom "How do people decide that they are ''a pair'?"
She immediately dismissed the topic, saying "You'll just know." She didn't seem to want to talk about it (maybe because we were at the dinner table--I'm not sure).

I guess what I'm mostly interested in is this: do two people, before they start dating, mutually agree to begin seriously dating? Or is it more subtle than that? How does one tell if something is a date rather than a normal get-together with a friend?

My view seems to be pretty unique in all this… Most people seem to draw a distinction. I prefer not to draw any distinction.

A date is a date is a date. People generally seem to associate a "date-date" with some romantic LTR precursor. It's NOT. A date is two or more people getting together to hang out and get to know each other better. I say "two or more" because I see no difference between couple-dating and group-dating. Did you make an arrangement to see each other? Yes? Then it's a date. Context doesn't matter. Purpose doesn't matter. A date is a date.

A normal get-together with a friend IS a date.

What happens over time with a lot of friends is people pair up with those they feel some attraction to. For some reason, our culture seems to encourage doing this quickly, and it's not a very smart thing to do--at least not for your emotional well-being. But over time you'll tend to hang out with this guy or this girl more than any other guy or girl. What will eventually happen is you'll hang out with that person almost exclusively. You'll likely feel some physical attraction as well as an emotional attraction. It'll be pretty obvious, even if you are bad at non-verbal cues/signals or are just generally clueless.

What will happen is you or your partner will bring it up in conversation. "Hey, you know, we've been hanging out a lot lately, and you said you're not seeing anyone else. I'm not seeing anyone else. And you did kiss me/let me kiss you, so…are we, like, a couple or something? Because…I think it's cool if we are… I just want to make sure it's ok if I tell everyone you're my gf/bf/whatever."

Something like that, which can be more or less awkward depending on your comfort level and confidence or personality. That's the kinda goofball thing I've done back in the day, but you hopefully get the point.

doesn't work like that for everyone. I can't be friends first. first first=friends only forever. I need to meet with clear intentions of romantic relationship being the end goal.



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07 Dec 2014, 9:29 pm

sly279 wrote:
doesn't work like that for everyone. I can't be friends first. first first=friends only forever. I need to meet with clear intentions of romantic relationship being the end goal.

How is that working out for you?



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07 Dec 2014, 10:25 pm

In my opinion, if you're comfortable enough to ask the "so are we boyfriend/girlfriend now?" question after hanging out with that person for a while, and you feel there's a connection, then, yes, you probably are in a dating relationship with that person. That being said, and depending on your specific situation, make sure you're prepared for either answer. (speaking from experience - it doesn't always go as planned)


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07 Dec 2014, 10:33 pm

AngelRho wrote:
sly279 wrote:
doesn't work like that for everyone. I can't be friends first. first first=friends only forever. I need to meet with clear intentions of romantic relationship being the end goal.

How is that working out for you?

no better/worse than being friends. can't help how my mind is wired. there are also pleanty of people together who didn't start out as friends.

fact is when I meet women I either a. have romantic feelings for them or B. see them as just friends(often cause they are with someone) this never changes over time. also not a fan of cross gender friends, never worked out. women are good to talk to but none ive met have been able to hang out like with my guy friends and do outdoor/prep/video game stuff.

I don't get how yours and others minds can be friends with someone have no romantic interest in them then some how years later turn it into a relationship. I don't expect you'll be able to understand how my brain works. and I can't do the who long term unrequited love/friendzone s**t.

another thing is one can't not act the same around women that you would with men.

but hey i'm just a f****d up life waiting to die.



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08 Dec 2014, 1:33 am

sly279 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
How is that working out for you?

no better/worse than being friends. can't help how my mind is wired. there are also pleanty of people together who didn't start out as friends.

No, we can't help how our minds are wired. But we do have complete control over the choices we make. If something doesn't work, we try something else. "Plenty of people"? So, you mean, the way this works is people just grab random people off the street they've never met before, don't even know each others' names, and fall instantly into a LTR? I don't doubt that it's possible. I just don't know many people--can't think of any at the moment--who weren't acquainted somewhat before getting into a LTR.

Of course, just because it works for them doesn't mean it's going to work for everyone else, either. I'd say that's more the exception than the rule.

sly279 wrote:
fact is when I meet women I either a. have romantic feelings for them or B. see them as just friends(often cause they are with someone) this never changes over time. also not a fan of cross gender friends, never worked out. women are good to talk to but none ive met have been able to hang out like with my guy friends and do outdoor/prep/video game stuff.

Well, I think it depends. I tend to avoid having a lot of female friends out of respect for my wife. I mean, I have female friends. I just don't make regular contact with them or spend unusual amounts of time with them. That's all just part of building security in a relationship.

But back in the day I was a lot more comfortable with friends of the opposite sex. I played a lot of clarinet back in the day, so my social circles were predominantly female to begin with. That began to change in college when I joined a fraternity, but I still feel more at home with women than other men. The point being there are good reasons not to be involved with the opposite sex on a less-than-romantic level, but there are also good reasons to be involved as well.

sly279 wrote:
I don't get how yours and others minds can be friends with someone have no romantic interest in them then some how years later turn it into a relationship. I don't expect you'll be able to understand how my brain works. and I can't do the who long term unrequited love/friendzone s**t.

OK, there's your problem. You're making it an emotional thing. You need to set the emotional part aside and look at it objectively. When you're trying the least to go from friendship to romantic LTR, you paradoxically will get there. It's one of those "luck favors the prepared" kinds of things. Your goal is to get into a LTR, not get into a LTR with a specific person. And, for instance, you don't want to end up with someone who treats you lesser than dirt. So to make sure that doesn't happen, you simply don't hang out with women who act that way and naturally you won't end up with that sort of person long-term.

You have to stop worrying about that whole unrequited love/friendzone thing. That's just part of the gig. The way I learned to handle this was by just loving everyone. I learned to be picky later on after having been in a few choice bad relationships, and by bad I mean there are things I'm still having trouble letting go even after being in a relationship for 15 years, married 9 of those, and a woman letting me impregnate her on 3 separate occasions. But you live and you learn. I know who would be cool and who I need to RUN from. I can't explain it, but I can tell enough about a woman by the way she says "Good morning" to know I need to avoid her like the plague in the future. If I woke up tomorrow and was starting this whole dating/LTR thing all over again, I wouldn't be quite so selective. I love everyone, so I'm somewhat immune to the whole unrequited love thing.

Friendzone? AWESOME! I can rock that. That's a woman I can go to for advice when I ask her sister out. And even if we are just friends and will only ever be just friends, it doesn't mean we can't hang out at the bar Friday night. If I'm crushing on her or something, I'll just pretend she's a lesbian. I'm not afraid of the friendzone. I could always use more friends.

sly279 wrote:
another thing is one can't not act the same around women that you would with men.

Why not? Who made up that rule?

sly279 wrote:
but hey i'm just a f****d up life waiting to die.

Suit yourself.



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09 Dec 2014, 3:03 am

no there's this thing in between. they meet in person both with the "point" of trying to form a relationship. they go on dates doing fun things to get to know each other again with the goal of forming a relationship. <- this is what majority of people do. they don't be friends for months to years then form a ltr, they don't go grab people of the street and make a relationship. sure there's people that do the whole friends thing first, but that's cause they can and didn't feel attracted to the person that way when first meeting, they gradually grew attracted to them over time.

don't get what you are saying in the 3rd paragraph at all o.O

I've done the back and forth of a friendzone/unequalted love it was super horrible and caused uncomfortable talks/fights and eventually both them and me just stopped talking. far too painful I am not ever doing it again I just can't do the whole I super love you and you don't love me back thing anymore. plenty of humans in this world that I don't need to put up with that. as for loving everyone I tend to love all my friends but as a sibling love which is quite different from a romantic love. I've had female friends I loved non romantically and it worked fine, but the ones I love romantically sadly can not be just friends it hurts me inside daily and will cause problems between us. I'm sure they will find other friends. better for everyone involved.

so I will just say " I love you and you don't feel the same way, so sadly we need to part ways as a friendship just won't work." the others I won't ever be able to love romantically. doesn't matter though as I have only met one woman who I shared hobbies with and she might not have even been a she. reality is that while similar inside interests might be enough to form a relationship off of the lacking all the other interests makes for a poor friendship. and since I'm only able to share inside interests with a romantic interest(being close concerns) my friends are people with whom we do things outside or online gaming. I'm probably weird in that but I only really feel safe and comfortable letting a gf into my inner safe room. not too many women here who like camping/hiking/shooting/guns/walks and I'd have to meet them when they are unavailable for relationship. I'm just a shitty person I suppose :(
also as others have said women don't tend to want to go hang out with a guy/group of guys, they tend to only hang out with women or groups of women/men

I can't pretend my feelings dont' exist sadly if I could then I could just pretend my depression doesn't exist and loneliness doesn't exist. my problems would be solved. also when you watch your (pretending shes a lesbian) girl go out with guy after guy and talk to you over and over about how awesome the guy is and how great sex they are having etc. it would be quite hard to keep pretending.

idk guys are fine if you fart near them they find it funny, they talk about sexual things, about gross things like poop. etc. some of the talk disgust me, all of it upsets women. only met one woman(friends wife) who is just like a guy when around us.



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09 Dec 2014, 6:56 am

sly279 wrote:
no there's this thing in between. they meet in person both with the "point" of trying to form a relationship. they go on dates doing fun things to get to know each other again with the goal of forming a relationship. <- this is what majority of people do. they don't be friends for months to years then form a ltr, they don't go grab people of the street and make a relationship. sure there's people that do the whole friends thing first, but that's cause they can and didn't feel attracted to the person that way when first meeting, they gradually grew attracted to them over time.

don't get what you are saying in the 3rd paragraph at all o.O

I've done the back and forth of a friendzone/unequalted love it was super horrible and caused uncomfortable talks/fights and eventually both them and me just stopped talking. far too painful I am not ever doing it again I just can't do the whole I super love you and you don't love me back thing anymore. plenty of humans in this world that I don't need to put up with that. as for loving everyone I tend to love all my friends but as a sibling love which is quite different from a romantic love. I've had female friends I loved non romantically and it worked fine, but the ones I love romantically sadly can not be just friends it hurts me inside daily and will cause problems between us. I'm sure they will find other friends. better for everyone involved.

so I will just say " I love you and you don't feel the same way, so sadly we need to part ways as a friendship just won't work." the others I won't ever be able to love romantically. doesn't matter though as I have only met one woman who I shared hobbies with and she might not have even been a she. reality is that while similar inside interests might be enough to form a relationship off of the lacking all the other interests makes for a poor friendship. and since I'm only able to share inside interests with a romantic interest(being close concerns) my friends are people with whom we do things outside or online gaming. I'm probably weird in that but I only really feel safe and comfortable letting a gf into my inner safe room. not too many women here who like camping/hiking/shooting/guns/walks and I'd have to meet them when they are unavailable for relationship. I'm just a shitty person I suppose :(
also as others have said women don't tend to want to go hang out with a guy/group of guys, they tend to only hang out with women or groups of women/men

I can't pretend my feelings dont' exist sadly if I could then I could just pretend my depression doesn't exist and loneliness doesn't exist. my problems would be solved. also when you watch your (pretending shes a lesbian) girl go out with guy after guy and talk to you over and over about how awesome the guy is and how great sex they are having etc. it would be quite hard to keep pretending.

idk guys are fine if you fart near them they find it funny, they talk about sexual things, about gross things like poop. etc. some of the talk disgust me, all of it upsets women. only met one woman(friends wife) who is just like a guy when around us.

Practically all of this is an emotional response, not a rational one. I'm not saying pretend you don't have emotions. I'm not saying don't develop emotional attachments to people. What I AM saying is you are letting those things get in the way.

When we crush on someone, it's hard to act quasi-normal around them. That's all I meant. If you're a guy, you can't be with a lesbian anyway. Doesn't mean you can't hang out with lesbians, doesn't mean you can't go out with a lesbian as a friend. But the sexual incompatibility is going to make it very clear where you stand. So you're not going to be all goofy-in-love with someone you think of that way. So you just pretend she's a lesbian even if she isn't and it's not so bad.

What I don't understand is how you can be attracted to someone who talks about having sex with guy after guy. Maybe my cleanliness standards are a little too high, but I just can't handle that. If I had a crush on someone, I couldn't crush on them after that. Don't get me wrong…I've had multiple partners and I've been with women who'd had multiple partners. But that only means I've had sex with 6 women since I was 19, and I'm 36 now. And I've only been with one person for the last 11 years. I just can't crush on someone if all she talks about is how she's with a different guy every week.

On the other hand, if she IS that type of girl, all you have to do is stand in line… Who knows? You might eventually get sympathy sex! [Makes me feel icky just thinking about it…]

Anyway, back to my original point: I think you're being way too overemotional about the whole thing. You aren't allowing yourself to look at it analytically and unpack what's really going on with relationships. The majority of people do NOT meet up with the goal of getting into a LTR with each other. They might have the goal to end up in a LTR eventually, but my magic 8-ball has rarely been accurate with positive answers when it comes to LTR potential with any given woman. It has been unfailingly accurate with the negative answers, oddly enough. You already said it yourself people get together to get to know each other and THEN relationships form. But there's never any guarantee. Which is why I'm saying that what you're saying about people getting together and going right into a relationship simply doesn't happen. That's what you said, and I'm saying it does NOT work that way. I don't think you have a very clear picture of how all this works. Dial back on the knee-jerk emotional responses and look at it a bit more objectively. Keep LTR goals as long range and focus on dating as simply a strategy for not being alone the whole weekend. Get the emotions out of the way and use dating as a strategy for making friends with the opposite sex, nothing more. When you have a large dating pool it's easier to be picky when it comes to narrowing down to who you'll be most compatible with. Don't sell yourself short.



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09 Dec 2014, 11:51 pm

didn't say different guys but same guys. as in the lady you like gets a bf or goes on dates etc.

i've seen tons of people meet and be gf/bf 2-4 weeks later. generally within a month.

I have looked at it objectively I know my own limits. I can't do one sided love friendships. why is that so hard to understand. if you and others can then good for you.

as for leisbians as friens yeah if they are upfront and clear from the get go I can and have had leisbian friends, but if we meet with the ida of maybe dating then she decides to be just friends I can't. just not how my mind works once I have feelings for someone they don't change.