MIT Scientist Exposes Monsanto

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PlainsAspie
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06 Dec 2014, 3:26 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

There's just no way that exposure to these sorts of chemicals can be harmless to us.

What is your definition of chemical?

Fnord
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06 Dec 2014, 6:53 pm

PlainsAspie wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

There's just no way that exposure to these sorts of chemicals can be harmless to us.

What is your definition of chemical?

Does anyone really know how deadly the chemical dihydrogen monoxide can be?

It is routinely added to municipal water supplies, yet it can be fatal if inhaled, and can cause blistering of the skin under certain conditions. Furthermore, it is also known as hydroxyl acid, and is the major component of acid rain. It contributes to the "greenhouse effect" and the erosion of our natural landscape; accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals; may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes; and has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used as an industrial solvent and coolant in nuclear power plants, in the production of Styrofoam and Teflon, as a fire retardant, and in many forms of cruel animal research.

It is vital to the production of GMO foods and so-called "junk" foods, and in the production and in the distribution of pesticides and herbicides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.

Research has shown that dihydrogen monoxide can be found in the cells of every endangered animal species, as well.

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btbnnyr
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06 Dec 2014, 11:54 pm

I love chemicals, eggspecially the ones in In-n-out milkshakes.

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goldfish21
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07 Dec 2014, 12:55 am

PlainsAspie wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

There's just no way that exposure to these sorts of chemicals can be harmless to us.

What is your definition of chemical?

I don't mean chemicals as in all matter.

I meant toxic pesticides & synthetic stuff that's been engineered to kill other organisms, whether plants or animals. There's just no way that they don't do any harm to people whatsoever - especially given the number of articles out there specifically about pesticide & even more specifically about glyphosate exposure.

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Adamantium
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07 Dec 2014, 8:12 am

goldfish21 wrote:

PlainsAspie wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

There's just no way that exposure to these sorts of chemicals can be harmless to us.

What is your definition of chemical?

How do you know what is toxic? When is something synthetic bad? When is something "organic" good?

I can give you a tasty laurel leaf smoothie recipe with 100% natural, "organic" ingredients that will kill you quite quickly.

You can synthesize any amount of Fnord's dihydrogen monoxide and consume it without ill effect, unless you overwhelm your body with such excessive quantities of it that you disrupt your electrolyte balance.

The only way you can really know is scientific investigation. It is quite possible for a chemical to be toxic to one species and have no harmful effect on another.

The number of articles out there claiming one thing or another doesn't really tell you anything unless they are articles created with a degree of rigor. The sheer volume of bull about autism causing vaccines or dangerous cell phone radiation doesn't make those ideas true.

It may well be that these pesticides are much more dangerous to people than they seemed. If so, proper studies will show that.

Consider the example of phthalates--once the data was in, no one claimed they were not harmful, despite the difficulties in adjusting the industrial processes that use them.

You just need some balance in the early claims. If the argument was, "glyophosate may be more harmful than we thought, we should look into this," there would be no objection.

Fnord
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07 Dec 2014, 9:29 am

An article appeared on the NPR website Nov. fifth, detailing how food manufacturers are making less-nutritious food because they're leaving "chemicals" out of their products.

Chemicals like vitamins, for example...

:roll:

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goldfish21
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07 Dec 2014, 10:03 am

Pretty sure we all know there's a difference between water, vitamins, and poison that kills insects.. :roll:

But if you insist there's no difference, I'll drink water, you can drink roundup to your heart's content. :heart:

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Adamantium
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07 Dec 2014, 10:33 am

goldfish21 wrote:

Pretty sure we all know there's a difference between water, vitamins, and poison that kills insects.. :roll:

But if you insist there's no difference, I'll drink water, you can drink roundup to your heart's content. :heart:

You know there is a difference, but what is it?

What is the difference between retinoic acid, retinyl acetate and retinyl palmitate? Does it matter?

Was Senator Shumer correct in suggesting that retinyl palmitate is a carcinogen in a class of common over-the-counter products?

Even things "we all know" can be pretty complicated.

As far as I can tell, the scientific method is the only way to reliably understand the intricacies of the world around us and within us. One of the things this approach demands is not leaping to conclusions.

The_Walrus
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07 Dec 2014, 1:44 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

There's just no way that exposure to these sorts of chemicals can be harmless to us.

The same is true of everything. You can die of vitamin overdoses, you can drown, taking 200 aspirin in an hour will kill you.

The question is, are we exposed to them in sufficient concentrations to harm us? And what health effects exactly will come?

goldfish21
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07 Dec 2014, 4:34 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

There's just no way that exposure to these sorts of chemicals can be harmless to us.

Here's the first hit of 167,000 when I googled side effects of glyphosate:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15862083

IMO it should be avoided as much as humanly possible. I'm sure I still consume small amounts of it on some foods, but I do what I can to avoid the stuff. I couldn't imagine using it myself or wanting to be around while it's being sprayed on crops. YMMV - and you can absorb, inhale, or ingest as much of it as you want to. Personally, I believe the stuff is highly toxic to people, wrecks our digestive & nervous systems etc and would prefer to minimize any exposure to it.

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starkid
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07 Dec 2014, 4:52 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

There's just no way that exposure to these sorts of chemicals can be harmless to us.

The same is true of everything. You can die of vitamin overdoses, you can drown, taking 200 aspirin in an hour will kill you.

The same is not true of everything. "There's just no way that exposure to these sorts of chemicals can be harmless to use" is not true of vitamins, because there is a way that vitamins can be harmless to us: one simply avoids an overdose.

Seems like you misread the quote.

btbnnyr
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07 Dec 2014, 8:22 pm

So far, there has not been conclusive evidence to support the hypothesis that long-term eggsposure to glyphosate is harmful to human health or causes a specific disorder like autism.
However, the comparisons with water and vitamins are not good arguments either.
With any synthetic compound that is commonly used on the food supply, it is good to investigate its effects, and I think that is ongoing research.
With compounds like pesticides or medications, it is good to generally be cautious and use sparingly.
By the way, I really love chemicals, it's almost like loving people to me.

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886
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08 Dec 2014, 5:36 am

starkid wrote:

A computer scientist is studying autism and pesticides? wtf

My thoughts exactly.

There's a lot of illuminati conspiracy nonsense available on the internet apparently

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goldfish21
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08 Dec 2014, 12:08 pm

886 wrote:

starkid wrote:

A computer scientist is studying autism and pesticides? wtf

My thoughts exactly.

There's a lot of illuminati conspiracy nonsense available on the internet apparently

Riiight.. because Leonardo da Vinci should have stuck to art instead of inventing things.

This may come as a surprise to you, but people can do more than one thing in their lives.

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PlainsAspie
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08 Dec 2014, 12:28 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

886 wrote:

starkid wrote:

A computer scientist is studying autism and pesticides? wtf

My thoughts exactly.

There's a lot of illuminati conspiracy nonsense available on the internet apparently

Riiight.. because Leonardo da Vinci should have stuck to art instead of inventing things.

This may come as a surprise to you, but people can do more than one thing in their lives.

and anything LdV wrote on topics he wasn't trained about should be taken with a grain of salt

btbnnyr
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08 Dec 2014, 2:54 pm

Computational approaches are applied in many fields, so it is not surprising that a computer scientist would study this topic.

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