the killings of black people in usa by the police

Page 3 of 3 [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

trollcatman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,920

11 Jan 2015, 5:38 pm

alisoncc wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
I heard on the news those hostages were already dead before those commando dudes attacked.


Please note: I referred to the SYDNEY Australia hostage drama. To the best of my knowledge no commando dudes were involved.


Ah, I thought you meant the stuff in France. The people in France were actually elite military I think, not police.



Campin_Cat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,934
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

14 Jan 2015, 12:46 pm

em_tsuj wrote:
Please. I am the enemy combatant/citizen the police are supposed to protect I can't be both of those things simultaneously. In other words, who are the police protecting? Who is the enemy? Am I a citizen or an enemy? Let me be more explicit. My experience in America is that I am someone who the police are trying to protect everybody else from. I am not a part of the community that the police are trying to protect. I am seen as an enemy, and it is unfair.

That's funny----I'm white and live in a black neighborhood, and I see cops (white and black) protecting black citizens EVERYDAY!! You're not an enemy, generally speaking, until you do something, to become one----and, even THEN, you're not an enemy until you are proven guilty, in a court of law. Do I see black people treated unfairly? Of COURSE----but, I live in a MAJOR metropolitan area, and I see people of MANY races being treated, unfairly. Black people, here in Baltimore, treat Asians, ATROCIOUSLY----but, you never hear Asians crying about it----at least not publicly----not holding rallies, etc.

Because I am seen as an enemy, in a situation where the cop cannot rationally think before acting, that cop's inaccurate perception of me is going to get me killed. This is real life for me and has been for most of my life. I have to protect myself from the police. I take daily measures not to experience the type of stuff I see on the news or the less dangerous, never publicized, but equally infuriating harassment that takes place because I "fit the profile". I fit the profile because I am not white and affluent.

Because you are taking "daily measures", you're being a good citizen. One could say that "I" take measures, as well, by keeping my nose clean, and not sassing authority. That's the problem, that I see, often, in situations with cops and black people. Some black people want to sass cops, disrespect their authority, PROVOKE them. Yeah, I can understand them wanting to stand-up for themselves, and not want to allow themselves, to be walked, all over; but, too many of them (black people) PROVOKE a cop's treatment of them. I've seen MANY a black person being arrested, and one of first things out of their mouth, is something to the effect of: "Oh, you're doing this because I'm BLACK"----OR, if the cop is black, "Come-on, brother, you know it's not like that". Provocation is NOT just when someone pulls a gun, on you!! Would YOU want to be provoked / threatened every single day, almost every time you were doing your job?

You can't tell me that I am making it up or that I am paranoid, because i have had too many independent experiences in various locations at different points in my life. And, as you can tell by the anger and protests in black communities all over the U.S., it is a common experience among black people all over the U.S. Are we lying about racial profiling? Are we unjust in being scared of police and angry about mistreatment by police?

No, I don't think you're lying about what can be INTERPRETED as racial profiling----but, what if..... Just, what if, it is INSTEAD, "attitude profiling"? You don't think a young, WHITE person, who is viewed as a punk, because his pants are falling-off his butt, and he's wearing a hoodie, and having an attitude, is not ALSO being profiled? I know he IS, cuz I see it every day!! I don't have an attitude of "Everybody's out to get me"----but, the couple of times I've walked into a 7-Eleven with my hood, up, I've been asked to remove it. People are asked to remove their hoodies so that they can be identified on camera, if they commit a crime----NOT because they're black. When I remember to remove my hood, BEFORE entering the store, I am taking one of those "measures", I feel, you were describing.

As for the protests in black communities..... I'm sorry, but I really DO think this might be the type of behavior that some Psychology professional would label: "gang mentality"! ! I rarely get into an argument with black people, but when I have, the first thing they do, is get every other black person around them, into it----and, the second thing they do, is say, something like, "slavery is over". Why can't black people just have a battle, singularly? Also, Black people aren't the ONLY people who have an albatross around their neck!! The Jewish people have the Holocaust, the gay people have Stonewall, the Native Americans have the Trail of Tears----BUT, you don't see ANY of them "crying" as loudly, or as often, as BLACK people!! Yeah, there's power in numbers----yeah, the squeaky cog gets the oil----BUT, it gets tiring, quite quickly, after so long a time. Each of these groups have "cried", every once-in-awhile, for about a minute, compared to some Black people crying, for the last 40 years, at least!!

I also feel that the more Black people are heard, considered, etc., the more they want. Some of them, seemingly, act like spoiled children, in that the more a child gets, the more he wants, cuz he knows that all he has to do, is whine, and he gets his wish. The parent that never says "no", will one day regret it----when, for instance, their child becomes a big, damn bully, and IF they are even able to acknowledge their responsibility, in it. I fear that that may be what is happening, now..... There seems to be two MAJOR types of white people, where Black people are concerned----there's those with "White Guilt", who are still saying "Oh, poor black people----look what we did to them" (regarding slavery), and will, seemingly give their right arm, to take a black person's side. Then, there are the white people who have had quite enough of Black people whining about slavery, and who are now, themselves, feeling oppressed, and not gonna take it, anymore----and, unfortunately, as much as I hate to think it / say it, that just MIGHT be what is PART of why there's so many killings of black people, by White people (cop, or not).


So is a police officer justified in killing me (a non-violent, law-abiding citizen) because he has some negative (often subconscious) perceptions about black men?

Certainly, NOT!! The cops, in the cases we've been discussing on this thread, haven't been found to have negative perceptions, about black men. You said, YOURSELF, farther down in this post, that you felt the investigations were being conducted properly, in Ferguson, for instance. No one's actions----and I repeat, NO ONE'S actions can be justified for killing someone just because of their race----that's one of the reasons they invented the "Hate Crime" law. You don't think white people get thrown in jail, for killing black people, "for sport"?

One more thing, I didn't really get excited about this stuff until the Eric Garner case. I understand your argument that cops must be cognizant of danger and often must react with deadly force. I also understand some about legal proceedings because I have worked in the criminal justice community. I look at the evidence in each case and make judgments based on that. I don't see any problem with the investigation in Ferguson. I understand why they didn't indict the officer. I don't like how things went down with Trayvon Martin because I believe Trayvon Martin was provoked, but you can reasonably argue that it was a situation where Trayvon Martin's killer thought his life was in danger. But in Eric Garner's case, you have on video a person who did not do anything violent, didn't make any kind of threatening gestures towards the cops or any bystanders, and was not being arrested for a violent crime or a major offense. Your argument does not fit in this case. Look at the video. Did Eric Garner reach for a weapon? Did he throw a punch? Did he make any verbal or physical threats of violence? No.

I, TOO, HATE that Eric Garner died as a result of the cop's behavior----BUT, you don't think a white person has ever died, because a cop was restraining, them? I remember reading about a white lady who got tasered by a cop, and had a heart attack and died, because of it, but it was a LOCAL report----the media only reports things, NATIONALLY, when they think it'll bring them ratings, or whatever. The case with Eric Garner came-about after Trayvon Martin, and Ferguson, and a whole bunch of other incidences, and "the powers that be" knew it would make a great sensation----BUT, the fact IS Mr. Garner was obese, had high blood pressure, and Asthma..... Another person being restrained as he was, might not have died----just as other people have been tasered, and not died. According to NBC-New York, the police commissioner, in the case of Eric Garner, has said that there will be a "redesigning of use-of-force training in the NYPD". We can only hope that he will keep his word.

The police officer responsible for his death needs to be held accountable some sort of way, perhaps through a lawsuit, but no punishment is an insult to Eric Garner's family and black people all over America. It also sets the example that you can do whatever you want when arresting someone and get away with it. That is not what America is supposed to be about. That is not in keeping with the ideals that millions of Americans have died for. We are supposed to be a nation where every citizen is supposed to be treated equally by the government.

Again, this is, IMO, "gang mentality". Why does what happened to Eric Garner insult Black people all over America? If a white person is killed by police in Wisconsin, for instance, I don't get insulted and incite a protest in downtown Baltimore, because of it. Again, the problem IS, you rarely hear about a white person getting killed, by police, in a NATIONAL report----BECAUSE, quite frankly, why would anyone feel sorry for a white person, when it's a "White Man's World", and White people have all the privileges (that's the opinion of SOME people----WHITES, as well). Is a white person's blood less valuable, than a black person's----and, by the same token, is a BLACK person's blood MORE valuable, than a white person's? The answer SHOULD be, IMO, that NO ONE'S blood is less important, and NO ONE'S blood is MORE important!!

You might argue that cases like Eric Garner's are outliers, and I would agree, but I believe that one person dying like this and not getting justice is too many. I don't want to live in a society where reckless cops can kill people and not get punished. I want to see powerless people (no matter what their race) treated fairly by those who are in power. I want to see America continue to grow closer to its ideals of justice and equality.

I want this, TOO!! Unfortunately, as much as I hate to say it, some black people----SOME black people----are bringing trouble on themselves, by PROVOKING the actions of others. Now, I realize that one should be able to NOT respond in a brutal / homicidal way, when they've been provoked----but, again, I ask you if YOU would be able to do it, if almost every single day, in almost every single situation, you were provoked, as some of these cops, are.



DeuceKaboose
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 141
Location: United States

25 Jan 2015, 12:09 am

Police killing people who are arguably non-dangerous is not a new thing what was so special about mike brown? (inb4 he was black) there were 593 people killed by police last year many of whom arguably did not try and kill police officers and were a separate race from the police official http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ki ... ruary_2014



heavenlyabyss
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Sep 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,393

26 Jan 2015, 8:19 pm

I honestly think race is part of the problem but not the entire problem.

I've had experiences with cops and felt deeply disrespected. They act in a way that provokes violence. I keep my mouth shut because I know they are dangerous, and this is coming from a white person.

Cops ARE the problem, unfortunately.



Berrylicious
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2014
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Posts: 78
Location: Toronto

30 Jan 2015, 9:44 pm

The police have a problem with black people because they have been taught to regard them as criminals who need to be detected and punished. Right? I don't know the reasons behind this mentality. 50 years or so have passed since Blacks demanded to have the same rights as whites and equal treatment and since Obama became president, people think we're in a post racial world but I don't think so. It's like saying we're in a post feminist world when clearly we're not. I hate the police more than I hate other people.



brett0007
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 23
Location: somewhere

31 Jan 2015, 10:24 am

My personal opinion is people will just find axes to grind at authorities and at this point its over African Americans being shot by the American police, despite the fact plenty whites, Asians and native american's are shot by the police too. Moral is not screw with the police.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 30,367
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

31 Jan 2015, 12:34 pm

brett0007 wrote:
My personal opinion is people will just find axes to grind at authorities and at this point its over African Americans being shot by the American police, despite the fact plenty whites, Asians and native american's are shot by the police too. Moral is not screw with the police.



Just the other day I heard of a teenage girl getting shot by the cops around Denver, though I think she may have been more hispanic than white judging by the last name the article gave but not sure as there wasn't a ton of detail. Supposedly she was in a car with other young teens, car may have been stolen...cops rolled up, supposedly the driver tried hitting the cops and hit one in the leg(hard to say what the truth is since no video so cops word against theirs)...I personally think it is more likely the dumb kids panicked and hit the cop by accident. Either way tires could have been shot out...there where other options than killing someone and the one killed might have even been a passenger.


_________________
It's the end of the world as we know it.....and I feel fine(sarcasm for that last bit).


brett0007
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 23
Location: somewhere

31 Jan 2015, 2:37 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
brett0007 wrote:
My personal opinion is people will just find axes to grind at authorities and at this point its over African Americans being shot by the American police, despite the fact plenty whites, Asians and native american's are shot by the police too. Moral is not screw with the police.



Just the other day I heard of a teenage girl getting shot by the cops around Denver, though I think she may have been more hispanic than white judging by the last name the article gave but not sure as there wasn't a ton of detail. Supposedly she was in a car with other young teens, car may have been stolen...cops rolled up, supposedly the driver tried hitting the cops and hit one in the leg(hard to say what the truth is since no video so cops word against theirs)...I personally think it is more likely the dumb kids panicked and hit the cop by accident. Either way tires could have been shot out...there where other options than killing someone and the one killed might have even been a passenger.


American cops tend to be very heavy handed,from what I hear, tbh is sounds like they need to be restrained in general and told to curb use of guns.



eric76
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,721
Location: In the heart of the dust bowl

31 Jan 2015, 2:47 pm

brett0007 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
brett0007 wrote:
My personal opinion is people will just find axes to grind at authorities and at this point its over African Americans being shot by the American police, despite the fact plenty whites, Asians and native american's are shot by the police too. Moral is not screw with the police.



Just the other day I heard of a teenage girl getting shot by the cops around Denver, though I think she may have been more hispanic than white judging by the last name the article gave but not sure as there wasn't a ton of detail. Supposedly she was in a car with other young teens, car may have been stolen...cops rolled up, supposedly the driver tried hitting the cops and hit one in the leg(hard to say what the truth is since no video so cops word against theirs)...I personally think it is more likely the dumb kids panicked and hit the cop by accident. Either way tires could have been shot out...there where other options than killing someone and the one killed might have even been a passenger.


American cops tend to be very heavy handed,from what I hear, tbh is sounds like they need to be restrained in general and told to curb use of guns.


Shooting out tires makes great tv, but not so great police work.



Shauna88
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 2 Feb 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 76
Location: Ontario Canada

02 Feb 2015, 10:09 pm

I don't know what's going on down there in the US. Are things really that bad in terms of race relations? I thought the US made so much progress.

Oh well, not my country not my business.



em_tsuj
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,786

02 Feb 2015, 10:19 pm

Shauna88 wrote:
I don't know what's going on down there in the US. Are things really that bad in terms of race relations? I thought the US made so much progress.

Oh well, not my country not my business.


I think it all depends on where you live within the U.S. I currently reside in a community where racism is minimal. I grew up in a place where the racial tension was so thick you could cut it with a knife.



eric76
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,721
Location: In the heart of the dust bowl

03 Feb 2015, 12:04 am

em_tsuj wrote:
Shauna88 wrote:
I don't know what's going on down there in the US. Are things really that bad in terms of race relations? I thought the US made so much progress.

Oh well, not my country not my business.


I think it all depends on where you live within the U.S. I currently reside in a community where racism is minimal. I grew up in a place where the racial tension was so thick you could cut it with a knife.


I grew up in an area where there were no blacks. I'd only see blacks when I went to a big city and that wasn't very often.

We had plenty of Mexicans, but they generally weren't treated any differently than anyone else. A great many were at least third or fourth generation Americans.



Jaden
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,980

12 Feb 2015, 6:54 pm

white_as_snow wrote:
is it racism or not?

why do they police have to kill them? just shoot them in the arm, leg? or use plastic bullets or electric shoot?

feels like its racism...atleast in some causes?

in western europe, we dont have this problem.

if the killings does not stop, any chance a civil war can break out?

In the case of unarmed killings:
I don't think this is only happening to black people, I think this is happening to everyone, it's just that the media will portray it however they like, and I'd be lying if I said race played no part in what gets reported.

It's a hot topic, and honestly if there aren't some serious changes to prevent this from continuing, there should be more drastic measures taken to ensure that it doesn't. Not necessarily an uprising, but clearly the current situation is not getting better, and legislation isn't helping either apparently. It also doesn't help that these officers have the means of not only skewing any incriminating evidence pointing at them, but also get a free pass for wearing a badge.

I see it like this: If you're a cop, and you shoot an armed suspect in self defense, fine. But if the person is unarmed and has done nothing to suggest intent in any shape, way, or form to do harm, then the officer should be fired on the spot, and a proper investigation done, period. But with the way our society is now, that's never going to happen, they have the big guns (and tanks), and they know they can get away with anything as long as they keep their story straight.


_________________
Writer. Author.