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InfoPunkie
Snowy Owl
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12 Feb 2015, 6:50 am

School is a test to see if you can endure working that long, keeping track of assignments and sitting around doing something boring because that's what jobs require pretty much.

To wit, it's a filtration system, a sieve but not a fair one.

Discuss.



Fnord
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12 Feb 2015, 7:32 am

Where else will you learn?

No matter what else you might call it, any arrangement between teacher and student is school.


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InfoPunkie
Snowy Owl
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12 Feb 2015, 7:35 am

Fnord wrote:
Where else will you learn?

No matter what else you might call it, any arrangement between teacher and student is school.


I learnt pretty much nothing from school. I taught myself.



InfoPunkie
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12 Feb 2015, 7:36 am

This doesn't just come from me btw, I've heard a lot of teachers saying similar things.



Fnord
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12 Feb 2015, 7:40 am

InfoPunkie wrote:
I learnt pretty much nothing from school. I taught myself.
It's "I learned nothing" or "I have learnt nothing". The former is a present participle form, while the latter is a past participle form.

Please get it right.


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InfoPunkie
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12 Feb 2015, 7:43 am

Fnord wrote:
InfoPunkie wrote:
I learnt pretty much nothing from school. I taught myself.
It's "I learned nothing" or "I have learnt nothing". The former is a present participle form, while the latter is a past participle form.

Please get it right.


Ah I used to be a grammar snob too but I learnt that it doesn't matter as long as the message is clear and it's not a formal situation.



InfoPunkie
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12 Feb 2015, 7:54 am

Also, I'm from the U.K. Where we use learnt more often than learned so it's correct for the local usage. Language is merely a way of conveying information. As long as the information is understood and you're not being tested in any way then the way that the information is given is irrelevant.



guzzle
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12 Feb 2015, 8:12 am

Fnord wrote:
Where else will you learn?

No matter what else you might call it, any arrangement between teacher and student is school.


Many people that teach or have taught me.

Wouldn't consider themselves teachers.

School is an institution.

Learning can be independent from an institution.

Learning and indoctrination is not the same.

However much you would like it to be.



Fnord
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12 Feb 2015, 9:19 am

I rebelled against the indoctrination part. I kept asking 'why', even after they told me to stop. I even wrote a few essays on the Founding Fathers that revealed their intentions to establish an aristocracy of wealthy, white, male, European Protestants in order to establish and maintain a classist society.

Every time I handed one of these essays in, the teachers would start another round of lectures on the importance of patriotism. Then I would counter with another essay on how 'Patriotism' is really just propagandist double-talk for supporting the Patriarchy, and how those who encouraged conformity were really just supporting a culture that keeps women subjugated as second-class citizens.

Of course, with most of the teachers being female, that accusation didn't go down very well ... :lol:


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DancingDanny
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12 Feb 2015, 3:44 pm

Fnord wrote:
I rebelled against the indoctrination part. I kept asking 'why', even after they told me to stop. I even wrote a few essays on the Founding Fathers that revealed their intentions to establish an aristocracy of wealthy, white, male, European Protestants in order to establish and maintain a classist society.

Every time I handed one of these essays in, the teachers would start another round of lectures on the importance of patriotism. Then I would counter with another essay on how 'Patriotism' is really just propagandist double-talk for supporting the Patriarchy, and how those who encouraged conformity were really just supporting a culture that keeps women subjugated as second-class citizens.

Of course, with most of the teachers being female, that accusation didn't go down very well ... :lol:


Hahah, way to go. 8)



Fnord
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12 Feb 2015, 8:11 pm

What a lot of people seem to not understand is that while schools are also indoctrination centers as influential as any religious institution ever was, you don't have to believe any of the esoteric doctrinal bullsnot, just the practical tutelage of crafts, science, and mathematics.

Algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and calculus? Definitely.

Astronomy, biology, chemistry, and physics? Certainly.

Reading, writing, languages, and geography? Absolutely.

Woodshop, welding, drafting, and programming. All are both practical and useful.

Psychology, sociology, citizenship, and history? Maybe ... Maybe not.

Philosophy, political 'science', religion, and journalism? Run far. Run fast. Run away.


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Dmarcotte
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13 Feb 2015, 11:12 am

It is a sad testament that today's public schools are in fact institutions that teach to the middle. If you are too smart, too slow or different in any way there is a distinct lack of options available.

I frequently tell my 10 year old that she will NEVER be in this environment again. When she is an adult she will be able to find a place that values how she looks at the world and that she asks lots of questions.

But for now she just has to get through it.


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slenkar
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13 Feb 2015, 11:42 am

For example I had 'music' classes for several years at my school. They gave us all these tiny little xylophones to play as these were the cheapest instrument possible.
The teacher didnt even teach us what a chord or a scale was in all that time!

She just told us to compose a tune, let us bang on the xylophone thingies for 40 minutes and then the lesson was over.



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13 Feb 2015, 11:59 am

Fnord wrote:

Philosophy, political 'science', religion, and journalism? Run far. Run fast. Run away.


Surely not learning about these subjects makes you blind to the so called indoctrination you're speaking of? Those are the most important subjects to be able to form your own critical understanding of the world and discern your own ethics and morality?

Remaining ignorant is ideally what people trying to indoctrinate you want you to do, congratulations, you are indoctrinated to not trust the tools you can interpret the world with.

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13 Feb 2015, 12:33 pm

To be fair [not that I always feel like it], from the standpoint of one involved in teaching / learning / schools from birth and a bit more than one generation before:

They teach. They work for learning. The issue is WHAT.

I wanted access to data on bugs. They wanted me to learn to play nice and sing songs with gestures.

I wanted to learn how stuff really works. They wanted me to learn and pass on the consensus theories.

I wanted to learn the origin of "to jodute". They wanted me to order food in Nice.



mr_bigmouth_502
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13 Feb 2015, 12:49 pm

InfoPunkie wrote:
School is a test to see if you can endure working that long, keeping track of assignments and sitting around doing something boring because that's what jobs require pretty much.

To wit, it's a filtration system, a sieve but not a fair one.

Discuss.


That's exactly what I think as well. Public school is a filter designed to separate out people who don't fit the conformist, NT, worker bee paradigm. The main goal is to see how much of the working world's BS you can put up with until you snap, and to force you to put up with even more of that BS if you fail. Naturally, aspies often have a hard time with this, as do other neurodiverse individuals.

If school were actually about learning, it would be much different. Post-secondary is kinda like that, and though I am currently taking a high school level course, I'm doing it through a post-secondary institution, and thus we're cutting through the BS and getting straight to the good stuff. As a result, I'm actually enjoying it somewhat.