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Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 62
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

13 Feb 2015, 11:09 pm

I've heard this said - you get the government that you deserve - implying that it's your vote, your fault. Or does it mean more than that? And how can it be true if there's really only a choice of two? And if there were realistically more than two to choose from, wouldn't it only muddy the waters more?

I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.


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Joined: 17 Jul 2014
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Location: Norway

14 Feb 2015, 1:46 am

H. L. Mencken once said that "democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." At least the majority deserves it, like the people waiting in line for toilet paper and other basic necessities in places like Venzuela.


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Joined: 2 Mar 2009
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14 Feb 2015, 7:54 am

Any society, democratic or not, is ultimately made up of people. You either vote people into power or tolerate their rule over you.

So, you get the product of what you tolerate. Democratic societies have a more direct link of causality.

Consider that in the USA, President Nixon had to resign over Watergate...and he really didn't have much of a case against him. His agents did the deed and he was implicated. Clinton later cheats on his wife, and LIES UNDER OATH about it. He gets impeached and the trial (a wholly political affair) does not convict in light of clear and convincing evidence of his guilt.

20 years ago, Clinton wouldn't have made it past impeachment before political pressure made him resign. That's how American society has changed.


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Joined: 22 Mar 2014
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14 Feb 2015, 12:18 pm

This is in In the Mystic Footsteps of Saints:

To Each His Own Desserts

Allah Almighty has established natural laws, and has bestowed upon us minds with which to understand these laws and their applications. Fire burns, so don't put your hand in fire. Knives cut, so don't put your hand under a knife and trust in God's mercy, no. The same applies to the relationship between rulers and their subjects. "Don't throw yourselves (foolishly) to your destruction," warns the Almighty. There is always a correct way of dealing with the ruling authorities, and the key to understanding the correct approach is the tradition of the Holy Prophet, peace be upon him: "You get the ruler you deserve." Hajjaj bin Yusuf was one of the most famous tyrants of history. "The Tyrant" was his title and a title well earned, as everytime he entered a city he made hills from the heads of the people he killed. Once Hajjaj conquered a city and summoned a group of prominent citizens, asking them, "Am I an oppressor or a just ruler?" Naturally those people were quaking with fear, and humbly addressed him: "Oh our Amir, you are very just. " He shouted angrily: "They are liars, take them out of my sight and behead them!" Then Hajjaj called in another contingent of prominent citizens and asked them the same question, but as they understood what had happened to the previous group they said: "How can you be called just when you kill the very people who declare you to be just? Surely you are a tyrant!" "Liars, all of them! They lie too! Executioner, take them away and behead them too!" And so it continued throughout the day: a group was called, and answered, "You are just" and was killed; then another group who answered, "There has never been a tyrant the likes of you," was killed as well. Gradually all of the prominent citizens of the town were slaughtered, except for a group of religious scholars who Hajjaj was intending to question last. As they were walking towards their dreaded meeting with Hajjaj, an ecstatic madman of God came up to them and asked them where they were going. "Go away", they answered, "We have no time to talk to you now." "Tell me where you're going," he insisted, "to a banquet? I am going with you!" And so he sauntered from side to side of the group, bothering them and pushing himself upon them. Finally, one very old shaykh said to him: "Oh my son, leave us, we are going to a slaughterhouse." "Oh let me come too! After slaughtering there should be a feast with plenty of meat!" "As you like," said the old shaykh. Then the madman took a stick and went out in front of the group of scholars like the leader of a marching band. In this manner they arrived at the court of Hajjaj. Hajjaj was sitting like a frowning statue when the bizarre madman entered with the scholars. Hajjaj was taken aback by the appearance of the madman and a little afraid, as his clothes were weird and his turban was awry. The madman shouted: "Hey, Hajjaj!" The hearts of the scholars fell, and they thought: "My God! No one has ever dared address Hajjaj like this! How did we end up being led here by this madman who is bound to make Hajjaj even angrier. Perhaps he will not just kill us now, but flay us alive!" The madman continued: "I am the commander of this group of scholars. Don't tire yourself by asking them questions one by one, just ask me what you will. If you are pleased with my answers, fine and well, and if you are not, take them off and slaughter them." Then Hajjaj said to the madman: "Alright, I accept. I will ask you my questions and you will answer for them. Am I an oppressor or a just ruler?" "God forbid that you are an oppressor or a just ruler! You are the ruler sent upon us in accordance with our own attributes. You are a punishment, the curse of God, upon these people. We are the real oppressors, not you." Then Hajjaj applauded, saying "All you have said is true. This is the answer I have been waiting for. All day long I have been listening to lies. They called me an oppressor, but no, it is they who are liars, and when the others called me just they were even more shameless. Yes, I am Allah's punishment for their actions. Now I have my answer, you may all go free." Be wise and learn from this tale. If you think that a government is oppressive, look a the people being ruled and you will understand why they are suffering.


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Joined: 20 Jun 2014
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14 Feb 2015, 12:39 pm

It has also been stated that government and politics aren't spectator sports. Just voting isn't enough. While it is true that, in the United States at least, we have a representative form of government, that doesn't absolve us from keeping constant pressure on those representatives to do what "[w]e the People" desire rightfully under our federal Constitution.

If a voter hasn't lobbied a state or federal lawmaker for or against a proposed law, the voter isn't doing any good. If a viewer of MSNBC or Fox News Channel doesn't consistently write to the viewer's government representatives, the viewer is wasting time. If partisan supporters complain about the obvious instances of impeachable offenses by their opponents, but not their own supporters and leaders, they are part of the overall problem, not the solution.

There are those in our government (from both political parties) who feed on these weaknesses among our spectator class. They now act with impunity in some of the most egregious and repugnant ways that our nation has ever seen. Those who simply vote once a year or sit glued to cable-television "news-entertainment" applauding the red meat they are fed need to lead, follow or get out of the way. I, for one, have no use for them.

So, yes, we are currently getting the government "[w]e the People" of this generation deserve. We earned it!

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Joined: 25 Nov 2010
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14 Feb 2015, 1:16 pm

Turn OFF the T.V. of POLITICS, let it all GO, AND just BE FREE.

The U.S. government is GREAT, if one JUST lives FREE.

It works well enough, as IS, for some one who JUST LIVES FREE.


Nah, not possible everywhere, 'BUT IN ROME'....

AND WHEN it comes time to vote, I 'just DO IT'...

AND FRIGGING no matter the result is, I LET IT ALL GO, AND JUST AM FREE.....


IN noun and FREE human being ACTION AS IS....

i am my own 'relative' GOVERNMENT, AND THE U.S. is designed for that metaphorical REALITY FOR HUMAN BEINGS...relatively speaking.. as tHere is relative FREE will and relative SELF RULE..

TO RULE one's SELF, WITHIn Local, State, and Federal LAWS for MAINTAINING REASONABLE human being ORDER, when 'they' crowd together in thousands to millions IN lemming cans....

BUT any WAY..

SO once again..


KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

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