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androbot01
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20 Feb 2015, 9:44 am

link Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
A number of people were in the office at the time, including the principal, a school therapist and some educational assistants, trying to calm him, the father said.

He says that’s when, as he was told, a police officer who happened to be in the vice-principal’s office next door, came into the principal’s office and proceeded to place the boy’s arms behind his back and handcuff him.


This took place in a school designed to provide for autistic kids. I think the officer should have let the professionals deal with the situation.



Fnord
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20 Feb 2015, 9:50 am

The officer is a professional! She was just doing her job.

Quote:
... police spokesman Const. Marc Soucy explained that "any person that is detained or that is violent or showing signs of violence can be handcuffed to protect that person, to protect the officer, to protect the public.

"You do what you need to do to defuse the situation and make sure the child doesn’t hurt anybody or himself," the officer said, acknowledging that as a former school officer he has had to use handcuffs to control a child who is violent and out of control.

"Sometimes that is all you have."
The child was violent and out of control. Handcuffs were necessary.

Would prefer that the child harm someone, or that the officer had used pepper spray - or her sidearm - to control the child?

:roll:


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Last edited by Fnord on 20 Feb 2015, 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Waterfalls
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20 Feb 2015, 9:55 am

In no way is this an excuse, but I think St Jeromes is a regular school and the child was somewhat or fully integrated. Or maybe it is an excuse if one thinks handcuffing is reasonable for neurotypical children. I disagree, but if that's their policy in Ottawa, I can see where the officer might have thought it ok to handcuff the child.

Sad part is this could decrease this and other schools willingness to mainstream autistic children. I wish it would prompt a reexamination of the use of restraint generally.



androbot01
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20 Feb 2015, 9:56 am

Fnord wrote:
The officer is a professional! He was just doing his job.

If they called her over from the other office specifically to help restrain the boy that's their professional judgment to do so. But, the officer was in the school on other business. In this regard I think she should demure to the people specifically trained deal with autistic kids. So, if she intruded on the meeting without invitation, I think she was out of line.



androbot01
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20 Feb 2015, 10:04 am

Waterfalls wrote:
In no way is this an excuse, but I think St Jeromes is a regular school and the child was somewhat or fully integrated. Or maybe it is an excuse if one thinks handcuffing is reasonable for neurotypical children. I disagree, but if that's their policy in Ottawa, I can see where the officer might have thought it ok to handcuff the child.

Sad part is this could decrease this and other schools willingness to mainstream autistic children. I wish it would prompt a reexamination of the use of restraint generally.


I think you are right that it's a mainstream school. The article mentions that it has a room set up for kids to go when they're in meltdown, so I assume from this that they have some training for dealing with autistic kids. I can't find much info on this, though.



Waterfalls
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20 Feb 2015, 10:46 am

androbot01 wrote:
Waterfalls wrote:
In no way is this an excuse, but I think St Jeromes is a regular school and the child was somewhat or fully integrated. Or maybe it is an excuse if one thinks handcuffing is reasonable for neurotypical children. I disagree, but if that's their policy in Ottawa, I can see where the officer might have thought it ok to handcuff the child.

Sad part is this could decrease this and other schools willingness to mainstream autistic children. I wish it would prompt a reexamination of the use of restraint generally.


I think you are right that it's a mainstream school. The article mentions that it has a room set up for kids to go when they're in meltdown, so I assume from this that they have some training for dealing with autistic kids. I can't find much info on this, though.

I didn't see the article about having a room for kids who needed to get away, but I wouldn't think it was set up with autistic kids in mind. Don't know whether it has sensory calming as a goal, but that could help any kid out. It seems unfair to everyone, and the officer might have behaved differently had he or she known the child was autistic.

I believe it's best I not judge too harshly without knowing how things turned out for the child. It seems dreadful, but I don't really know that it was. Am assuming the child was not placed alone in the back of police car and driven anywhere in that state. And whatever happened, this could be a trigger for increased education, for everyone, and hopefully a better plan for this child when he falls apart in the future.

I'm frustrated with schools and teachers right now. My daughter's special ed teacher has me furious being condescending while doing something I think an incredibly stupid, counterproductive waste of time. But getting angry just gives them a target to point fingers at. Guess I'm thinking this child in the story had a meltdown over something school staff didn't necessarily need to torture him with, maybe not, but maybe it might have been avoidable. Try telling them that, though, you get nowhere. But that's to me the real tragedy....not the handcuffs.....the failure to plan ahead and catch problems early by people who treat children like little objects instead of the people they are....and then accuse us on the spectrum of lack of empathy and not looking at the big picture and lack of social skills.

I hope this child finds some understanding at home and at school.



androbot01
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20 Feb 2015, 1:28 pm

Fnord wrote:
Would prefer that the child harm someone, or that the officer had used pepper spray - or her sidearm - to control the child?

:roll:

Grow up.

Waterfalls wrote:
I'm frustrated with schools and teachers right now. My daughter's special ed teacher has me furious being condescending while doing something I think an incredibly stupid, counterproductive waste of time.

I can only imagine the torment of having a child in the education system.



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20 Feb 2015, 3:57 pm

androbot01 wrote:
I can only imagine the torment of having a child in the education system.

Kids are wonderful, but yes :( :cry: :x



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20 Feb 2015, 4:10 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Would prefer that the child harm someone, or that the officer had used pepper spray - or her sidearm - to control the child?

:roll:

Grow up.

To NEED to handcuff a mere 9 year old seems over the top and excessive to me BUT the way things are set up with liabilities, stupid cops, and whatnot, cuffing is not necessarily the worse choice.

androbot01 wrote:
Waterfalls wrote:
I'm frustrated with schools and teachers right now. My daughter's special ed teacher has me furious being condescending while doing something I think an incredibly stupid, counterproductive waste of time.

I can only imagine the torment of having a child in the education system.

The education system is what the citizens have helped or at least allowed it to become. It is fixable but half the people don't give a rat's ass and the other half could never agree on what needs fixed and how to fix it. It's going to stay broken for the foreseeable future.


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22 Feb 2015, 10:37 am

This had an easier solution that didn't involve handcuffs. It was the solution that they implemented first:take him to the calming room.

The timeline seems to be this:
1)kid has an altercation with another kid on the way to school and arrives at school in meltdown mode
2)kid is taken to the calming room
3)he calms down in the calming room
4)staff take him out of the calming room because he is now apparently calm and they start walking him down the hall but he goes back into meltdown mode
5)they take him into the principal's office where his meltdown continues and he throws a chair
6)a cop who is in a nearby room hears the meltdown and comes in and handcuffs him


What could have happened- and what actually does happen where my daughter goes to school- is if the meltdown resumes, after coming out of the calming room, the kid goes back into the calming room. The difference is that my daughter actually does go to a school designed for autistic kids so they know what to do to handle a meltdown safely. This school was neither a school for autistic kids (although they did have a calming room so there's that) nor a public school. It was a Catholic school. They seemed to have better facilities for meltdowns than a lot of public schools (at least public schools in the U.S.) but they aren't specialists. It's a sideline, not their main expertise.

This kid really would be better served in a school for autistic kids specifically. People who deal with meltdowns on the daily are aware that a child's meltdown can appear to end while in the calming room only to revive once they leave it. The solution isn't to go instead to the principal's office. The solution (frequently implemented) is to go back to the calming room (a good autism school has more than one).

When my daughter transferred from public school (where her meltdowns were escalating) to an autism specialty school, she at first spent the better part of the school day in a meltdown room, for about the first month. It became a safe little cave for her and she at first took her lessons in there. Over time she was able to come out for increasingly long stretches and eventually didn't go in at all unless she felt a meltdown coming on (as time went on, she could go weeks and then months between meltdowns). I think this boy would be well served in such a place. He would eventually learn- as she did- to self-monitor for meltdowns and use this 'retreat to a safe space until it is truly over' coping method. He learned no coping skills at all from that incident and the school didn't actually protect themselves because now they have whatever fallout will come with this incident to deal with. And it all could have been prevented by taking him back to the room. Or recommending him to a specialty school where they are well aware that the solution to that problem is to go back to the room.



androbot01
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22 Feb 2015, 11:21 am

Janissy wrote:
When my daughter transferred from public school (where her meltdowns were escalating) to an autism specialty school, she at first spent the better part of the school day in a meltdown room, for about the first month. It became a safe little cave for her and she at first took her lessons in there.

Wow, that's awesome! I remember my kindergarten had a walk in playhouse. I tried to hide in there, but they made me come out.



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22 Feb 2015, 11:57 am

androbot01 wrote:
Janissy wrote:
When my daughter transferred from public school (where her meltdowns were escalating) to an autism specialty school, she at first spent the better part of the school day in a meltdown room, for about the first month. It became a safe little cave for her and she at first took her lessons in there.

Wow, that's awesome! I remember my kindergarten had a walk in playhouse. I tried to hide in there, but they made me come out.


I was impressed- I'd never seen such a thing since her previous public school didn't have one (I don't think any U.S. public schools do). It's good that this Catholic school had one and all they had to do was take him back there instead of to the principal's office. :cry:

The walls as well as the floor are carpeted (for headbanging safety) and the furniture is plush (so throwing it is harmless). Incoming students always have to use a calming room the most because they are coming off the trauma of public school and it takes a while to heal from that. Now my daughter is healed and she sagely tells me about incoming students using it and says "I don't need to anymore". But the calming rooms are always there if she ever needs them. Such a simple thing. So helpful. So much better than handcuffs.

I think schools that are designed for NT kids put a premium on socializing so hunkering down in such a room is discouraged (as with you) or seen as a measure to be used as briefly as possible (as with this kid). But a school designed for autistic kids (well designed- not like Judge Rottenburg Center) knows that an escape pod is necessary and part of the coping tool kit. I wish she went there sooner. I hope this kid's parents find such a place.



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18 Mar 2015, 3:14 pm

Update:

CTV

Quote:
Family of autistic boy handcuffed at school to speak on Parliament Hill

The family of a young autistic boy who was handcuffed at school last month will make a statement on Parliament Hill today.
Stephanie Huck, the mother of nine-year-old Daniel, says her autistic son was handcuffed by police because he was acting out at school.


Image

CBC

Quote:
The mother of a nine-year-old boy with autism who was handcuffed in Ottawa last month said she won't return him to classes until the school and school board provide all of the records of his care.

..."No discussions, no negotiations, until we know exactly what happened to our son," said Huck. "Only then can we make an informed decision about what the next steps for little Daniel will be… our concern is not just for our son but for all the other Daniels like him."

Huck said officials at the board told her Daniel threw chairs before a female police officer restrained him with handcuffs.

A spokesperson for the school board had said the principal requested the handcuffs be removed when arriving in the room, and the officer did so right away. But Ten Oever told his parents the principal asked police to put him in handcuffs.



jabub
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21 Apr 2016, 5:50 am

This is not a school for Autistic children obviously because they do not understand them whatsoever!! !! ! Do not stand for this or agree with it...you will be jeapordising the future of Autistic childrens education...and opening the floodgates for a miriad of punishments metred out to these children...rather than the lazy neurotypicals finding other ways to deal with and help rather than punish.This disgusts me...and even more those of you who feel its warranted.



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27 Apr 2016, 8:36 pm

The educational system is horrible for autistic kids and most cops know nothing about autism. I remember a couple of autistic kids at my old elementary school that always had meltdowns. I saw the autistic girl at the park a few times and she was happy at the park and she was fun to play with. At school, she was miserable. The autistic boy was much happier once he got to high school. He never had meltdowns in high school. Elementary school was hell for him. My sister is autistic and she had a lot of meltdowns in elementary school. When she had teachers that worked with her she was fine. One time a cop picked her up when she was walking home because she looked suspicious. My mother had to explain to the cop what autism is.