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26 Feb 2015, 1:23 am

I've noticed gender identity come up in a few threads. While the issue doesn't bother me, I was surprised to learn about gender identity in some of our older races. At one time, I thought it had to be a modern thing, perhaps tied to our western freedom of expression. I thought it peculiar, odd. But the more I learned, the less I thought that way.

Gender identity has been a part of the human experience for thousands of years, and in different, unconnected parts of the world. It can express itself in unusual ways and is even an institution in some tribes. For example, the Fa'afafine of Samoa are individual males selected to take on a female role. They either choose to do so themselves or are chosen by family members. In some American Indian tribes they have a third sex, which is neither male nor female.

For the longest time I thought the Lady Boys of Thailand were just a third-world way of filling a market need. But then I saw parts of a documentary series on them and formed a very different view. Many work as sex workers because they feel it is a good way of saving towards reassignment surgery, but many also work in more "respectable" jobs. They also know that the younger they can get surgery, the more their features will remain feminine, and they showed examples of this.

And yes, while it seems to be mostly males making the switch, there are also quite a few females wanting to be male.

If you Google third gender, you'll find lots of interesting information on types, history, roles, culture etc. You'll also find that there are animals which also utilize third gender roles.

Like it or not, it is a part of nature's landscape.


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aghogday
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26 Feb 2015, 3:37 am

Yes... everything in real existence is a spectrum...

It is only humans who try to restrict that.. at least on this planet.. with abstract language.. collective intelligence.. and the byproducts of complex culture in tow....

I gave up labels...

IT SET ME FREE..:)

AND YEAH.. believe it or not the cashier at McDonalds mistook me for a girl when I was thirteen years old.. as hard as that might be to imagine now and 113 LBS more later..:) i used to have thick flowing blonde hair.. in fact the ladies in the salon used to say.. oh my god that boy HAS SO MUCH HAIR....

And yeah.. when i was a baby almost everyone thought I was a girl.. my eyes were too blue.. and my eyelashes were simply too long.. no boy could be that pretty.. hehe!..;)

Things change.. oh BOY DO THEY CHANGE..;)

I HAD A LATE PUBERTY IN my 50's.. haha!

But I dam sure understand this ISSUE ALL TOO WELL....

HEHE.. what haven't i experienced huh..;)

Seriously.. ABOUT the only thing I haven't done.. is the gay thing.. i'm just a lady'S man.. and THAT PART WILL NEVER CHANGE.... JUST call me a 'gift' of sorts.. with sarcasm in tow..;)


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AspieOtaku
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26 Feb 2015, 11:51 am

I have penis therefore I am male.


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thomas81
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26 Feb 2015, 1:51 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
I have penis therefore I am male.


...and also because your brain affirms this notion.


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kraftiekortie
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26 Feb 2015, 2:16 pm

I'm a male, and proud to be a male. Just like I'm a Homo sapiens, and proud to be a Homo sapiens.

Women are beautiful, and frequently have beautiful souls.

I've never wanted to be a woman, though...because I'm satisfied with being a man. That's the way I was born. If I was born a woman, and I know I have a good soul, I'd be content with being a woman, too.

There's nothing wrong with being either a man or a woman.

I ALSO BELIEVE THAT IF A MAN WANTS TO BE A WOMAN, AND VICE VERSA, OR IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T BELIEVE IN THE "BINARY SYSTEM" OF GENDER, THAT THERE'S NOTHING INHERENTLY WRONG WITH THAT.

That's my feeling on this.



aghogday
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26 Feb 2015, 3:04 pm

thomas81 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
I have penis therefore I am male.


...and also because your brain affirms this notion.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sex/add_user.shtml

Speaking of that, a cool test linked here to determine Brain SEX ID..

I score precisely in the middle and so does my sister, with both of us diagnosed on the Autism Spectrum.

My wife is way up there in the female brain territory...:)

But yeah.. i definitely LOOK ALL MALE NOW..;)

AND YEAH.. my wife looks ALL FEMALE NOW TOO.. but she too is recognized as a boy when a small girl.. per gender stereotypes in 'looks'...

And she never ages.. people remarking she looks the same as the day we married her at age 19 and me at 29.. twenty-five years ago.. and sure.. that's kinda nice.. and she doesn't work out and still has a six pack.. never getting fat.. so yeah.. there's some testosterone in that 'butterfly' somewhere too...:)

And I have the medically accessed testosterone of 277, as low as 75 year old male.. per latest documented test this year.. but that doesn't stop me from leg pressing 930LBS twelve times...just last night...

HUMAN nature.. strange.. bizarre.. and truly magicKAL.. when human potential is more fully pursued.. and met.. regardless of gender and or sexual orientation... i just don't have then ability to truly judge and look down on a person who is different.. or look up for that matter either.. i guess i was born that way.. like 'our' androgynous friend Lady Gaga.. who is very likely on the broader Autism phenotype too..;)



AND ALWAYS full of surprises..



and a textbook example of

NEVER EVER JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER... alone....

The HUMAN BEING inside IS like A UNI-VERSE... ALLONE.. the outside.. is only temporal expression..always a relatively small extension.. of HUMAN Uni-verse.. for only now...;)

CLIMB EVERY MOUNTAIN FORGE EVERY STREAM FOLLOW EVERY RAINBOW UNTIL YOU FIND YOUR DREAMS.... AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.. NOW.

climb EVERY MOUNTAIN..;)

AGAIN.

THE VALLEYS ALWAYS END.

THE END IS ALWAYS THE BEGINNING...TOO..;)

FOR

NOW.


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Nebogipfel
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26 Feb 2015, 4:31 pm

aghogday wrote:
CLIMB EVERY MOUNTAIN FORGE EVERY STREAM FOLLOW EVERY RAINBOW UNTIL YOU FIND YOUR DREAMS.... AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.. NOW.



Yes, and while someone is doing that they should also take care that they do not always adopt their dreams from a commercial.



aghogday
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26 Feb 2015, 4:54 pm

Nebogipfel wrote:
aghogday wrote:
CLIMB EVERY MOUNTAIN FORGE EVERY STREAM FOLLOW EVERY RAINBOW UNTIL YOU FIND YOUR DREAMS.... AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.. NOW.



Yes, and while someone is doing that they should also take care that they do not pick up those dreams from a commercial.


The metaphor.. TO INSPIRE.. NO MATTER WHERE IT COMES FROM.. IS JUST THAT...

DOING IS JUST ALL THAT COUNTS... when flesh and blood hits the REAL ROADS OF LIFE...

'JUST DO IT'...

EVEN NIKE has that one figured out...

It does NOT take a rocket scientist TO TRULY FLY..ON Terrestrial Land..;)

i MEAN... duh.. even the real life JONATHAN TRULY LIVINGsTON SEAGULL CAN EVIDENCE THAT...;)

i for one.. JUST DO IT EVERY NOW OF EVERYDAY...

IT MAKE THINGS CLEAR CUT.. SIMPLE.. AND BRILLIANT.. ALL AT THE SAME TIME.....

But one can ask THE REAL LIFE audience.. if one likes... about the evidence..;)

i FOR one carry it everywHere i go.. IN TOW.. just letting IT go.. in free flow... ESSENCE OF FORM...

AKA CREATIVITY..

A FAR FAR GALAXY AWAY FOR SOME FOLKS..

i know.. i used to live in that cardboard box place....


too..... in another galaxy far far away........

It's kinda like never visiting the 'other hemisphere' of one's brain..

Literally speaking as science now.. even suggests.....

Two HEMI-SPHERES working in 'perfect' harmony of mind and body balance is truly art and science combined in mind..

AKA

THE 'QUANTUM' HUMAN MIND UNLEASHED...

THEN COME THE HUMAN MIRACLES FULLY FLOWING in human way...

AND THAT MY friend.. is what i.. for one.. evidence.. every now of my life....

It doesn't matter how i get HERE.. ALL THAT MATTERS IS IT'S REAL.................

EVEN the 'Lord of the Rings' CAN WORK FOR THAT..:)



RELATIVE HUMAN FREE WILL, FAITH, HOPE,

BELIEF
AND
TRUST in Human and Mother Nature TRUE..

ARE THE KEY INGREDIENTS

FOR human miracles fully utilized for reality TRUE....

THE METAPHORS ARE JUST TOOLS.. NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE OR

WHERE THEY COME FROM...

THE EMOTIVE POWER OF THE EMOTIONS MAKING THINGS HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE...

are REAL.

PERIOD. ..

END AND
BEGINNING
OF
HUMAN STORY.


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26 Feb 2015, 5:33 pm

Now, this isn't exactly connected to gender identity, but in some Native American cultures, gays and lesbians are revered, because they are considered to have both male and female souls, hence the term "two-spirit". If you ask me, I think this is one of the many ways in which the Native Americans were more socially advanced than the Europeans that came and settled here. The Europeans may have had the technological advantage, but socially speaking, they were far behind.



aghogday
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26 Feb 2015, 5:54 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
Now, this isn't exactly connected to gender identity, but in some Native American cultures, gays and lesbians are revered, because they are considered to have both male and female souls, hence the term "two-spirit". If you ask me, I think this is one of the many ways in which the Native Americans were more socially advanced than the Europeans that came and settled here. The Europeans may have had the technological advantage, but socially speaking, they were far behind.


I agree with this..

People who fail to see the VALUE OF diversity in human diversity.. are doomed to fail..

IN my opinion...

The day that science is able to make humans cookie cutter ideals.. will be the day.. of the doom of humankind....

In my opinion..:)

OH AND BY THE WAY.. here is the official youtube video of the broken Sound of Music Gaga link up there.. speaking of human diversity..:)


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26 Feb 2015, 6:11 pm

This is America; people should be able to live however they see fit, and should have the same utmost protection by the law as anyone else. If an individual believes he or she has been born into the wrong body, and wishes to make use of modern medicine to make a change, then that should be their right, even if it's not something I would be interested in ever doing. My wife and I have a friend who is a trans woman; and we have no problem accepting her as a woman.


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26 Feb 2015, 6:44 pm

Absolutely.

However, experiences within prison populations suggest that for a lot of people, sexual orientation is partially determined by opportunity. It's possible that the insularity of certain personality types as well as social realities and media programming could each cause a person to take a path that it would not be in their nature to choose otherwise.

Trans people should always be respected as human beings, but that does not mean that every person that is trans has chosen it because it is a manifestation of their true primary spirit. Sometimes it's a self destructive mistake. If you doubt this, try asking some people who temporarily turned gay in prison (actually, don't do this. It might be dangerous).

One of the problems I have with "political correctness" (I also love pc), is its tendency to blindly celebrate things which are self destructive. I believe that in the future it will be shown that the present culture, as well as de-stigmatising LGBT (which is good), was also actively manipulating people into it.



Nebogipfel
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26 Feb 2015, 7:12 pm

...or to put it a better way, it will be shown that it was manifesting conditions, beyond de-stigmatisation, that would lead people to be more likely to "choose" it.



Last edited by Nebogipfel on 26 Feb 2015, 7:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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26 Feb 2015, 7:22 pm

Yeah I took some sociology courses in college and we discussed gender identity, turns out it is a spectrum not a definite thing as modern society thus far might have you believe. I myself am of the female sex, but not sure I really identify as the female gender still kinda trying to figure that out...I don't feel 'male' either so certainly not wanting to switch over. So yeah the third gender is interesting to me, that just might be what I most identify with...but I even do have some slightly masculine physical traits here and there, like when I went to a chiropractor they said my shoulders/upper back sat more the way a males would than a female though I have all the biological hardware of a female.

Also learned the physical sex and brain develop separately in such a way they don't always match up, it was probably one of the more interesting topics we discussed in that class.


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26 Feb 2015, 7:48 pm

Nebogipfel wrote:
Trans people should always be respected as human beings, but that does not mean that every person that is trans has chosen it because it is a manifestation of their true primary spirit. Sometimes it's a self destructive mistake.

Nebogipfel wrote:
...or to put it a better way, it will be shown that it was creating conditions, beyond de-stigmatisation, that would lead people to be more likely to "choose" it.

The trouble with that line is three-fold.

First, when you focus on the ones who have "chosen" it out of some psychotic reaction, it becomes too easy to lump all the rest in with that lay diagnosis, stigmatizing the rest, and turning them into freaks.

Second, who is going to decide is which is which? In the west, afaik, all sex change candidates undergo extensive psych evaluation. Are you going to question that?

And third, a person who breaks free should be able to celebrate that! Instead, they get told they are sick. Is that how you want to treat such people?


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A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.