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Can Homosexuality and the Christian Faith Exist Together?

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GnosticBishop
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11 Apr 2015, 4:09 pm

appletheclown wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:

If not, then what are you saying causes one to be gay?

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DL

Nobody knows. To bad no one is actually satisfied with that answer, despite it being true.


Process of elimination.

If it is a condition of our body or mind, and it is and must be, then to me it has to be gene and DNA generated.

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DL



GnosticBishop
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11 Apr 2015, 4:14 pm

appletheclown wrote:
Ok, time for some clarification.

What do believe is that we shouldn't accept lgbt folks purely on the basis they are born that way.
If they aren't, people will try to change them, if they are some lgbt will think they are trapped.
What I am saying is, we need to accept them on the basis they are human, living and breathing.

As for the gay gene, I tend to lean on the it is a myth side because I believe to not know and to still accept
lgbt folks as equals is more compassionate than accepting them purely because they have no choice in the matter of who they want to have sex with.

To know would mean many people may say they accept lgbt folks as equals, but only because they can't help it,
and that isn't genuine.

I am by no means a homophobe, nor do I think of lgbt folks as lesser, I would just rather their own choices define them, not the chemicals in their body.


I think it is chemical thanks to DNA.

Check his out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e6fpiqp ... r_embedded

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DL



appletheclown
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11 Apr 2015, 10:43 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:

I think it is chemical thanks to DNA.

Check his out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e6fpiqp ... r_embedded

Regards
DL

Nice story, that still doesn't change my opinion.
To have any part of me defined by something as insignificant and worthless as DNA,
makes my blood boil. I don't and will never understand people who think love, and such emotions are just chemicals.
I never will. I will die a thousand times over before I think such an absurd thing like that.

DNA doesn't make me accept people as equals, and it never will. I accept people for who they are by choice, and compassion, not because of DNA.


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KimD
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12 Apr 2015, 12:35 am

"To have any part of me defined by something as insignificant and worthless as DNA,
makes my blood boil."

What nonsense. Without DNA, you would not exist at all!



GnosticBishop
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12 Apr 2015, 8:29 am

KimD wrote:
"To have any part of me defined by something as insignificant and worthless as DNA,
makes my blood boil."

What nonsense. Without DNA, you would not exist at all!


Yes. Without DNA none of us would be here.

appletheclown

Who told you that love was just DNA and chemistry?

Love cannot be called true love without it being expressed towards someone and reciprocity taking place.

Sure, some will distort the word love by saying they love everyone but that is not true love as is shared between people who express their love for another who reciprocates. Love must be reflected back to you to be true love.

One cannot love alone. Those emotions that are not reflected back are not true love.

When we use the phrase, love my neighbor, it is not the same love that we have for wife and children etc..

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DL



appletheclown
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12 Apr 2015, 10:32 am

KimD wrote:
"To have any part of me defined by something as insignificant and worthless as DNA,
makes my blood boil."

What nonsense. Without DNA, you would not exist at all!

I know that. You are not getting my point.
It is as enraging as the predestiny myth to have someone say, "oh its just your DNA"
To have my choices, my values, my favorite foods, my skills, and my love for any woman chalked up to DNA makes no sense at all. To have who I molded myself to be chalked up to, "Oh you were born that way" is infuriating.

I'm not nice to people because of DNA.


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pcuser
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12 Apr 2015, 10:41 am

appletheclown wrote:
KimD wrote:
"To have any part of me defined by something as insignificant and worthless as DNA,
makes my blood boil."

What nonsense. Without DNA, you would not exist at all!

I know that. You are not getting my point.
It is as enraging as the predestiny myth to have someone say, "oh its just your DNA"
To have my choices, my values, my favorite foods, my skills, and my love for any woman chalked up to DNA makes no sense at all. To have who I molded myself to be chalked up to, "Oh you were born that way" is infuriating.

I'm not nice to people because of DNA.


You just got lucky (at least for the things you like) in the DNA lottery and you want to take all the credit for it. When a person is born on third base, he or she can't claim a triple...



GnosticBishop
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12 Apr 2015, 12:10 pm

pcuser wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
KimD wrote:
"To have any part of me defined by something as insignificant and worthless as DNA,
makes my blood boil."

What nonsense. Without DNA, you would not exist at all!

I know that. You are not getting my point.
It is as enraging as the predestiny myth to have someone say, "oh its just your DNA"
To have my choices, my values, my favorite foods, my skills, and my love for any woman chalked up to DNA makes no sense at all. To have who I molded myself to be chalked up to, "Oh you were born that way" is infuriating.

I'm not nice to people because of DNA.


You just got lucky (at least for the things you like) in the DNA lottery and you want to take all the credit for it. When a person is born on third base, he or she can't claim a triple...


Actually, you are. It is a part of your survival instinct that says that cooperation, or being nice to people, gives a better chance for you to survive than to not be nice or IOW, compete against others.

Check this out buddy and recognize that what you are is whatever your DNA says you are. I am not saying that you have no choices in what you do, --- you do, --- but you cannot deny that DNA does reduce some of your choices.



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DL



evilsithwraith666
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25 Apr 2015, 6:30 pm

I don't think homosexuality is compatible with Christianity because of the inherent sexual negativity imbedded in the monotheistic faiths. You can't edit the bible to suite your political ends( like you were able to several centuries ago), so to be a "Christian" while homosexual means that you are rejecting a long-standing( albeit bigoted) tenet of the Christian faith. Thus you would not be a Christian, just a person having "Christian" values.



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25 Apr 2015, 7:10 pm

I am not a Christian, but I don't think that homosexual acts are any more sinful in Christianity than for example heterosexual sex outside of marriage or any of the other sins. People are saved through their acceptance of Christ and not because they committed fewer sins than other people.



GnosticBishop
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27 Apr 2015, 2:34 pm

evilsithwraith666 wrote:
I don't think homosexuality is compatible with Christianity because of the inherent sexual negativity imbedded in the monotheistic faiths. You can't edit the bible to suite your political ends( like you were able to several centuries ago), so to be a "Christian" while homosexual means that you are rejecting a long-standing( albeit bigoted) tenet of the Christian faith. Thus you would not be a Christian, just a person having "Christian" values.


I agree that Christianity has become a religion of bigots.

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DL



GnosticBishop
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27 Apr 2015, 2:38 pm

trollcatman wrote:
I am not a Christian, but I don't think that homosexual acts are any more sinful in Christianity than for example heterosexual sex outside of marriage or any of the other sins. People are saved through their acceptance of Christ and not because they committed fewer sins than other people.


Sure but a gay accepting Christ would mean not being able to love others as that person would wish to and that is why the homophobic religions should be shunned. Christianity and Islam, when it comes to gays, are anti-love and should be rejected by all moral people.

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DL



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27 Apr 2015, 4:27 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
I am not a Christian, but I don't think that homosexual acts are any more sinful in Christianity than for example heterosexual sex outside of marriage or any of the other sins. People are saved through their acceptance of Christ and not because they committed fewer sins than other people.


Sure but a gay accepting Christ would mean not being able to love others as that person would wish to and that is why the homophobic religions should be shunned. Christianity and Islam, when it comes to gays, are anti-love and should be rejected by all moral people.

Regards
DL


(first off, I'm not religious and I don't believe in sin, but I'm trying to see it from a Christian perspective)

In Christianity we are all sinful, and everyone commits sins. It's the singling out of gay people that I don't get. Jesus even takes the thief with him to heaven, he was likely a sinner (as everyone is) and he also broke the commandment of not stealing. Lots of people masturbate or have sex outside of marriage, in many countries with Christians that is the norm. Even though 90% of people masturbate or do the naughty before marriage (guesstimate) they are generally forgotten by the loud anti-gay Christians.



GnosticBishop
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27 Apr 2015, 4:39 pm

trollcatman wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
I am not a Christian, but I don't think that homosexual acts are any more sinful in Christianity than for example heterosexual sex outside of marriage or any of the other sins. People are saved through their acceptance of Christ and not because they committed fewer sins than other people.


Sure but a gay accepting Christ would mean not being able to love others as that person would wish to and that is why the homophobic religions should be shunned. Christianity and Islam, when it comes to gays, are anti-love and should be rejected by all moral people.

Regards
DL


(first off, I'm not religious and I don't believe in sin, but I'm trying to see it from a Christian perspective)

In Christianity we are all sinful, and everyone commits sins. It's the singling out of gay people that I don't get. Jesus even takes the thief with him to heaven, he was likely a sinner (as everyone is) and he also broke the commandment of not stealing. Lots of people masturbate or have sex outside of marriage, in many countries with Christians that is the norm. Even though 90% of people masturbate or do the naughty before marriage (guesstimate) they are generally forgotten by the loud anti-gay Christians.


Gays are singled out because they are few and are an easy target.

The churches are like their Gods.

"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God,
holds other people in contempt.
Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God,
there is in that man no spirit of compromise.
He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature;
he has the arrogance of theological certainty and the tyranny born of ignorant assurance.
Believing himself to be the slave of God,
he imitates his master,
and of all tyrants,
the worst is a slave in power."
--Robert Ingersoll

Regards
DL



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27 Apr 2015, 4:51 pm

"Even though 90% of people masturbate or do the naughty before marriage (guesstimate) they are generally forgotten by the loud anti-gay Christians." --trollcatman

Some religions/subsets of religions are experts at selectively interpreting and applying their own texts, and ironically, they're often the very same people who insist that those books are in pristine condition, utterly intact (never mind the "chapters" that were rejected at the start), absolutely unaltered from their original source, which is supposedly god, rather the hands of mere mortals.

GnosticBishop: I am becoming such a fan of Ingersoll's. When I read a passage of his about the problems with a supposedly loving god sending his children to hell, I felt as if the man had reached right into my head--and my heart! Thanks for the bit that you quoted.



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27 Apr 2015, 9:55 pm

trollcatman wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
I am not a Christian, but I don't think that homosexual acts are any more sinful in Christianity than for example heterosexual sex outside of marriage or any of the other sins. People are saved through their acceptance of Christ and not because they committed fewer sins than other people.


Sure but a gay accepting Christ would mean not being able to love others as that person would wish to and that is why the homophobic religions should be shunned. Christianity and Islam, when it comes to gays, are anti-love and should be rejected by all moral people.

Regards
DL


(first off, I'm not religious and I don't believe in sin, but I'm trying to see it from a Christian perspective)

In Christianity we are all sinful, and everyone commits sins. It's the singling out of gay people that I don't get. Jesus even takes the thief with him to heaven, he was likely a sinner (as everyone is) and he also broke the commandment of not stealing. Lots of people masturbate or have sex outside of marriage, in many countries with Christians that is the norm. Even though 90% of people masturbate or do the naughty before marriage (guesstimate) they are generally forgotten by the loud anti-gay Christians.

You are correct, lots of people have sex outside of marriage and masturbate and those are all sins. There's really no difference between them at all. The biggest difference is that it's simply not as obvious. Any sexual activity outside of marriage is a sin. I've already explained why, from a Catholic perspective, gays cannot get married and it has nothing to do with discrimination or bigotry.