Nonphysical things.

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Does a spiritual plane, mental plane, emotional plane and/or abstract plane of existence exist in addition the physical plane of existence or is everything physical?

We don't know.

Any answer you get beyond this will be speculation, dogma or the ravings of a deranged mind.

I don't think it's unreasonable or irrational to suspect such a plane. There are many non-physical things in the real world that we can detect, and we can only detect them because we have the mathematics and means of detection to assess them with. Numbers exist, Atoms didn't just exist when we discovered them. They were always there, but the extant of the reach of our five senses was limiting us from observing this reality that was always there, that were simply unaware of.

Consciousness, I think, resides on a plane whose mathematics we can't quite discern or quantify. By the way... isn't physics, which is the study of the physical world, is riddled with non-physical things?

The problem starts by defining reality

with concrete words like reality.

It is what it is.

Without words it is what it is.

Without is it...

Science definitely shows though that some
folks experience, feel, and sense aspects
of reality that others have no part of IN their life.

It is as simple as some folks experience nuanced emotions;
have a depth of ability to imagine images in their minds;
and have an ability to feel the emotions of others through affective empathy;
and other folks feel, sense, and imagine little to nothing of this; so yeah for those
folks these real physical aspects of life for some folks are not real to them; but that
does not negate the reality of the experience of other folks, at all; a common issue
with Autism is not understanding non-verbal language, deficits in cognitive empathy
as well as affective empathy in some cases; to the point of viewing other humans as mechanical
aids and nothing else; sad but true; different realities in physical realities or not, for different folks.

And no, there is nothing deranged about that; it is the state of the art of science in art of understanding human
emotions; science is just now touching on the Universe that exists as the internal human being that is almost
entirely subjective as far as how that internal experience can be described in words; words will never fully
capture all of the external reality nor the internal reality of humans, as humans are much too diverse to
ever put into cookie cutter molds of life experience, feelings, and sensory experience.

I have even had some folks here suggest that faith, hope, and belief are mere words and not
emotions; I do not have that issue and in discussing it with my Asperger's therapist just
today; she states that this is very common among folks with Asperger's ranging to
not having any idea what facial or eye expressions mean; that is a serious
reality difference that is non-existent for many folks on the
Autism spectrum. If one doesn't experience it, it is
a non-physical thing to them; that does
exist fluidly for many other folks
where they can almost
take it for granted
as long as they
keep connecting
in flesh and blood relationships..

AND YES, these are just a very few examples;
there are myriad others; that scientists are studying as we speak DIFFERENTLY OF COURSE..

Depends how broad your willing to stretch the meaning of 'exist'.

Everything from esoteric religious mystics to new agers to modern occultists have vouched that if someone burrows deep enough into their own consciousness and with enough disciplined practice they will find that thing Freud hated - ie. the 'oceanic' sense. From there plenty of people talk about, above deletion of separation, visiting coherent and structured places with continuing plots and timelines much in the way that people who smoke DMT often claim going to a place with specific events and if they smoke after they come back down they go back to the same place where it left off a few minutes later in that timeline as if they'd left to use the restroom and come back.

The fascinating thing is that enough people have plowed through the religious books of the east and west to grab at what the authors were getting at - everything from the Bible, Quran, and subsequent Jewish texts to the Upanishads, Vedas, etc.. They end up being the same people who'll talk about planetary evolutions - rounds, revolutions, root races, subraces of those races, and between the idea of us going around a carousel of seven planets which vary from less dense to more dense many times over and those counting as rounds or a whole other thing going with an 'Ancient Saturn', 'Ancient Sun', 'Ancient Moon', now Earth headed toward 'Future Jupiter', 'Future Venus', and 'Vulcan' as the 'rounds' - it seems like much of what gets said seems to find its corollaries in books like the bible in ways that make FAR more sense of the texts than 20th century blunt literalism.

There are a couple noteworthy problems with these things whether it's strapping cosmology books written by a handful of well-known occultists through the last few centuries or whether we're talking about the modern reports of NDE experiencers coming back with falsifiable information from times when their body generating faculties of perception would have been impossible or even former government remote-viewers starting magazines like Eight Martini's and swearing by their experiences. The first problem is that there seem to be staggering amounts of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence, I mean landslides, and yet - so it's claimed - absolutely zero scientific evidence. Secondly for as fascinating as the whopping cosmology books are and for how maverickly they embrace evolution and naturalism in a reincarnational schema for everything from minerals, plants, and animals to people and planets - it's well and good when they're talking about formation of planets on mental, astral, and etheric planes where the richness and cogent organization of detail seem to lend plausibility but then when they start talking about earth - they start talking about protohumans living at the poles at a time when they were the only thing that had congealed from lava, they talk about steamy polar jungles of Lemuria where things that were almost human but still not quite were still in the 'fire mist' that Ancient Moon was wrapped in to a larger extent, that these beings were not yet solid and were just beginning to use external faculties, that shortly after on a congealed and foggy planet the Atlanteans became more 'human' and started to actually use their outward senses the way we do now somewhere slightly past their midpoint (fifth subrace?). All of this flows on, if I remember Rudolph Steiner correctly he seemed to suggest that subraces were each one procession of the equinox (ie. 2160'ish years on average) and while it's not quite as bad as assuming the earth is literally 6,000 years old it seems to do something similarly strange in truncating timelines with respect to a world that to the best we can determine is maybe 6 billion years old. The Esoteric Buddhism of AP Sinnett embraces the planetary carousel approach and suggests that once we're done with this specific phase of earth evolution our souls will be packing their bags to incarnate on Mercury! Dion Fortune's Cosmic Doctrine was also fascinating, apparently also very much used by esoteric orders to great results, and it phrases the universe in Sefir Yetzirah terms as having three structural rings, seven layers, and twelve rays of motion across the the layers through the central sun.

To me what a lot of this suggests is that yes, something really fluky is going on with the condition we call reality and that what we're pursuing with scientific endeavors to understand reality seems to omit the particular side of conscious existence that this stuff comes from because it's incredibly inclement to the scientific process. Similarly fairies, sylphs, lots of the supposed cryptids, add UFO's, all seem to be part of a sort of molten, messy, here one second gone the next type of thing that seems so fluky that one would inherently want to blame it on alcohol or digestive problems until those digestive problems leave marks of their presence where they were at. Similarly these big strapping cosmologies of modern esotericists seem to be through a VERY dark glass. I get the impression that they're on the right track but at the same time I can't help but get the feeling that if it seems like what they're writing is mind-melting gibberish it may very well be both - mind-melting and gibberish.

I think Robert Anton Wilson really tried to take a shot at this stuff with his talk about pukas and the like. Similarly I got a kick out of him talking about performing the Golden Dawn Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel ritual on acid and find the result to be that a being from Sirius was talking to him. I can't help but think of all the scores of 'alien races' that new age mediums and spirit channelers claim to be in contact with, it would be hillariously campy if there was nothing to it - unfortunately for people who want clean-cut and easy answers that's not quite the case.

If you want to talk about etheric, astral, mental, and causal bodies - I get the impression that like the four occult elements of fire, water, air, and earth they're not anything physiological and I'm starting to have doubts of the Kybalion-style claims that these layers are simply the same stuff as matter at more subtle vibrations - we don't find this stuff under electron microscopes, we don't find it in either the electromagnetic spectrum between matter and light or above light the way you'd think we should if it were exactly as described. The best you can really do is consider them your subconscious mind's best shot at trying to explain something to you that's beyond rational analysis and don't expect it to show up under a microscope or in a peer-reviewed journal any time soon. Those things beyond your minds rational analysis aren't just physically subtle, they're conceptually subtle - they could be negative or implied dynamics in the spaces between positive ones, they could be a synthesis of dynamics that our rational minds would consider so many miles apart as to never put them together. There's a certain super-genius to the subconscious, both in how it filters what it allows us to see and also just how much raw data it can process with or without us, so that tends to lend confidence IMHO that regardless of how wacky or fantastic the imagery is there's still something sensible to it all at the bottom line.

Overall best answer I can give and probably the least satisfying - this is the subjective side of life in all its wild wonder! Welcome to it! It'll do all kinds of things to make you think you're tripping, then it'll do something that it couldn't have possibly done in terms of your mind inventing or finding certain facts that were beyond your repertoire, it'll then do more fluky things to make you feel like you're tripping again, and back and forth etc.. It took people like Israel Regardie and Aleister Crowley both a considerable amount of time to really come to a settled conclusion that the magic and rituals they were working with were actually something beyond just subconscious psychology - it played the edge for long enough and finally the coin fell with the 'real' side up.


That said if you have any interest in this stuff and plan on pursuing it I'd advise a few things to be ready for 1) be prepared for it to not be anything you expected 2) be prepared for it to take hairpin turns 3) be prepared for it not to follow your conscious emotions and most notably your conveniences 4) be ready for adventure both fun and not so much 5) be ready to not be able to talk about it just because you know you'd clear a room 6) if a reductive materialist challenges you be ready to roll over and say "Yes, I know there's not a solitary shred of evidence for any of it".

Still waiting for dogma.

The dog of reason has spoken.

The dog of reason has a closed-mind.

The dog of reason has an issue wHere

The dog of reason cannot see

with eyes of 'US'..

Yes, the DOGma has spoken
with few words of wISdom yet;

In other words, there is always hope for THOSE
who experience THAT emotion along with Faith and

Belief with the PREcursor, of course;
Imagination
and
CREATIVITY.

JUST another area of reality that is
as foreign as a Wrong planet to some...

And yes, again, science provides evidence for
this in poetic form or

NOT..

Anyway there is more to life than
reason; I mean duh; totally rad dude;
Life is FUN; much more fun with the
real world of Imagination and

CREATIVITY.

NO; NOT PAINT
by numbers
poetry
either; smiles..

The greatest achievement of humankind
is imagination and creativity; the dog of
reason is here for survival, yes; but not
FOR FUN OR
the Heaven of NOW..

That's a gift friend; that not all possess
or develop; sadly enough;
would love to see something
new from you and not
just the same old
phrases
RE-HASHED IN
STALE POTATOES..

Honestly your little 'sly' attempt
to insinuate that Tech has a
deranged mind is the
height of childhood
folly of bully
boys who
have no
soul;
heart;
or spirit;
otherwise known as
that science identified
cognitive and affective
EMPATHY STUFF; you
disgust
me;
and that's
just the truth;
but I forgive you;
as obviously you
KnowNOT what
you do and yes
live in a much
different
DARKER
REALITY
THAN
US..
IMHO..