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NyxBean
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14 Jul 2015, 11:21 pm

[Possible triggers] I want to understand my ex's behaviour and to work out if I'm exaggerating it or misinterpreting it. I'd like to know if there are any additional diagnoses which may fit and if maybe he might simply be suffering from C-PTSD like I am. Sorry about the length and if this doesn't belong.


To make it totally clear: I know it could be nothing, anything that is said will not be taken as a proper diagnosis, it will not be used against him, I do not hate him, I will see him as a person and not a diagnosis, I will understand that it could ultimately be completely wrong, I also realise the majority here are not professionals, and finally I fiercely try to make sure I do not think of any diagnosis in a stereotypical fashion. If you need any other disclaimers, please let me know. "Armchair psychologists" welcome because I'm not going to take any of this for definite, simply want an idea.


I understand that it is considered at the best unorthodox and at worst unethical but I would really like some assistance with having a few possibilities for my ex's behaviours. He's going to go to therapy as I asked him to during the relationship. We already know he has anxiety and depression, compounded by severe spread psoriasis, but he has some... "abnormalities" as well as maladaptive behaviours. In a recent exchange, he said bipolar is in his family and so perhaps it is that. I'm not entirely sure.

We've talked on the phone since I wrote out the following list. He sounded pleased to see me, apologised for not getting a message or two to me, said he should have realised, and told me he'd not been talking as he was still confused about his actions in the relationship and during the break up. Now I am calm and very sympathetic but when I wrote the following out, I was frustrated and extremely confused. Still, it pretty much applies.



His background and behaviours & characteristics in as much an order as I can manage Mostly copied and pasted from another forum where I got one answer which was basically "I have noooooo idea".


- His father isn't pleasant: domestic abuser, used family money to impress others and put them in debt, was verbally abusive, would punish what was unavoidable, follows ex around with a hoover because of skin condition, almost let ex get left behind at the airport as he was held back at passport checking, infidelity, eventually left with one of the women he was seeing on the side.

- His mother is a bit of an enabler and a little vulnerable: she's been in two or three marriages since and none of them sound pleasant (she's biding her time to get out of this one as she wants to make sure there's enough money to support her youngest), ex is psychologically addicted to marijuana but she will always smoke with him, cleaned ex's house for him instead of perhaps alerting social work to how much help he needs, seems to be about the only one he'll take advice from, has always encouraged him to keep in touch with the abusive father.

- Ex does not know how he feels about his father. Would not say he loved him, only said he likes him "a little", told me I wouldn't understand because I don't experience family blood bonds.

- I think he was attracted to me already but only a little while before we got together, I mentioned I was in the process of the first stages of dating his ex (I think I'd forgotten the connection). So when I was online, drunk and crying, he invited me round to his. I don't remember much of the evening but he was sober when I arrived and I'd already gone through more than half a box of wine. I apparently spilled some on myself and took my top off. I don't know if he covered me up but he did decide to start drinking and allowing me to drink more. I think there were two or three bottles of wine around. We had sex but I can't remember a thing about it. We decided to start the relationship the next day because I had already stated to everybody that I would not be having sex without attachment any more. Women I have spoken to are creeped out about him not putting me to bed or giving me coffee or inviting me around in the first place, whereas men clam up: I'm not too aware of social convention - what's that all about? Also, I feel it wasn't correct but not rape, am I right?

- He denied knowing that he was aware of my interest in his ex before we hooked up later on in the relationship.

- We were polyamorous as that was another point I'd already made to everybody and he said he would be fine with me dating his ex but began what seemed like a smear campaign. When I finally asked him to stop, he reverted from her name to "this girl" or "an ex" and when I'd ask who he'd say "I thought you'd already guessed". Finally I was convinced that she must not be the person I was looking for. I don't think he mentioned her after that at all, actually.

- Although he hated any behaviour being compared to that of my exes (which I'd mention as I was close to being emotional triggered through fear that he was going to turn into them), he often treated me as if I were somebody else and made leaps in his assumptions of what I was saying. Finally he admitted that he was treating me as if I was that ex he doesn't like.

- Ex is soft-spoken. As a child he spoke so fast that he had to get speech therapy. His father constantly punished him for not speaking up or being too loud. Ex will snap or shout if you ask for clarification of what he said but claims it is so you can hear him and he "can't control his tone".

- It seems to only happen in romantic relationships (stated by him and at least one ex), although my flatmate was witness to this too: a) he will snap and then deny it, and b) he will say one thing and then either straight away or after a miscommunication argument, say that he meant a completely different thing. One time his apology came a split second after what he said at the exact same moment I began to cry, and he was frantic in saying sorry.

- Ex enjoys running table-top games for friends but these friends are encouraging to the psychological dependence on marijuana. He once stated he was concerned that they only like him because he would run these games but several months later recanted that.

- He seems to be very paranoid and in turn encouraged me to think the worst in negative situations (my abusive mothers intentions, etc). Whether he was right or not, he seemed to go to the worst straight away.

- He's definite in what he says and I consider this a good trait when it is appropriate.

- He can seem quite critical but now I find it hard to pick examples.

- When I brought up a concern or was either insulted by something or hurt, he'd pick an almost arbitrary part of what I said and rage at me for that.

- He mentioned he has a massive amount or issue (can't remember which) with/of pride and when I suggested that pride often keeps us from what we need, he got extremely angry and said it was all he had, or something along those lines.

- He often forgets things he has said, sometimes critical statements, but this could be the marijuana.

- He does apologise and apologises properly but I'd say it tended to happen more when it was prompted by a mutual apology interaction by me.

- He has magickal beliefs, as do I, but his can sometimes border on paranoid. He was once in a mini almost-cult which he speaks poorly of now and there was some involvement with Scientology but he left quickly.

- He wouldn't tell me his needs in the relationship, perhaps because he felt I was more ill than him, so I was unable to meet them.

- When he got ill, he wasn't simply grumpy like my flatmate gets, he was pretty abusive. No name-calling but verging on... gas-lighting and other kinds of talk? He said near the end of the relationship that it was because he preferred to be alone when ill although the first time he was very ill he was encouraging of me coming over to look after him.

- I think due to the psoriasis and my medication-induced lack of libido, his self-image was suffering. Instead of telling me he needed to feel desired, he would do that passive "Oh, you won't sit closer because I'm hideous" when I sat on the couch or other such statements. I wasn't sure what to say to any of that.

- He said he had sleep sex on an old medication and one of the first mornings he spent here I was waking up snuggling and his hand kept forcefully trying to drag mine by the wrist downward. I kept pulling it away and eventually mentioned it and learned about the med thing. He said an ex loved it. It kept occurring but over time it was less forceful. Usually I'd wake up being fondled and he himself would be awake enough to know this. Finally, if I was not respondent he would ask if he should leave because he couldn't control himself. Is this normal or indicative of a difficulty?

- He has a flat expression most of the time. My expression might not be much better but his is like stone except when he's especially high and laughing.

- His voice was often so deadpan that I would miss lots of sarcasm and then he'd explain it was a joke, though quite a few were... worrying to a degree, like I was stupid or wrong. Even after we worked out Aspergers might be an issue for me, he did this.

- He's anxious outside but I think that's because of the psoriasis.

- He told me he used to wander aimlessly around the street either staring into shop windows or tapping on glass. This was told when we were at a sushi place and he said he'd seen a man doing it outside but when I looked, there was nobody there.

- Often when a noise occurs he seems desperate to know if you've heard it too, as if he's terrified of the possibility of auditory hallucinations.

- Although he would care for me during meltdowns or shutdowns, often his first reaction would be of frustration or, the one time it happened in public, anger. There was one time he was incredibly sweet though; that was when his friends were round for a game.

- I did manage to convince him to go to therapy but years-long friends said they'd tried for ages and gave up.

- Apparently he was determined to focus on his skin and put the therapy to the side (however he did recently state that he'd also put therapy off for years because he is scared).

- An ex who is still his friend said that he will often prioritise his skin over people, including significant others.

- During the break up I was acting shamefully and not at all like usual - hadn't acted so awfully for years. C-PTSD spiral with anger and shouting and confusion, though I never moved from the space on the couch. I shouted at my carer when he arrived, telling him they'd need to call the police or the hospital. Once I regained control of what I was saying, I realised that I couldn't move. I curled into myself like I do when I have what I feel is an aspie-shutdown and began crying, during which time he told me I was acting like my mother - an abusive, manipulative woman who tried to kill me on at least 4 occasions. Then, knowing my conditions and the likely ones, he told me if I "kept up this behaviour then there was no chance of us getting back together" in a strict and unmistakable father voice. I know I was acting awfully and he was stressed, but all I'd really said wrong was the pathetic I hate you which you don't believe: was comparing me to my mother easy to write off?

- His ex who is friends with him says he is often cruel during break ups.

- This ex also said something I'd been thinking but not wanting to say "He seems a lot like his father". It's hard for me to stress how he does in my eyes, but I was so surprised somebody else had said it.

- During the break up he said I had made him unhappy (first I'd heard of this) and "[he'd get so anxious about me arriving, hating when I was there, and recharging after". I had no idea.

- As for his suggestion of bipolar, I'm unsure. He simply seemed to be mostly grumpy unless he could get the marijuana or had people round. His moods seemed pretty dependent on situation instead of being on any real cycle, but I admit I don't know about all the bipolar disorders.


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WerewolfPoet
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15 Jul 2015, 9:39 am

Quote:
Also, I feel it wasn't correct but not rape, am I right?


Frankly, it depends on the jurisdiction in which you live. In the U.S., a person who is intoxicated is considered to be incapable of giving consent to sexual acts (particularly if the person is intoxicated to a degree in which they are incapable of explicitly stating "Yes" to the question of sex), and, thus, having sexual intercourse with this person would be considered an act of unconsensual intercourse, or "rape by intoxication."

As for the rest (with the disclaimer that I am not a professional psychologist and am only stating what I, in my unprofessional opinion, have noticed)...

Some of his behavior--the critical nature, the proneness to outbursts, the insecurity, the seemingly wavering opinion of you, the suggestion that he might have bipolar tendencies, his confusion about his own actions--slightly remind me of traits that one might see in those with Borderline Personality Disorder.

However, the symptoms found in Borderline Personality Disorder are those that could also have alternative explanations. I neither know the person in question nor the field of abnormal psychology to say to what extent the insecure/critical symptoms can be explained by the agitation that sometimes accompanies some forms of depression and the hyper-protectiveness that can sometimes accompany some presentations of anxiety or to what extent any of those factors are impacted by any trauma-related issues that may be present due to the situation with his father (although, yet again, there does seem to be at least some correlation between childhood trauma and adulthood Borderline Personality Disorder).

So, basically, I also have no idea, though my inclination is to look into the possibly of Borderline Personality Disorder.

I wish both he and you the utmost healing and peace.


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NyxBean
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15 Jul 2015, 1:54 pm

WerewolfPoet wrote:
Quote:
Also, I feel it wasn't correct but not rape, am I right?


Frankly, it depends on the jurisdiction in which you live. In the U.S., a person who is intoxicated is considered to be incapable of giving consent to sexual acts (particularly if the person is intoxicated to a degree in which they are incapable of explicitly stating "Yes" to the question of sex), and, thus, having sexual intercourse with this person would be considered an act of unconsensual intercourse, or "rape by intoxication."


I'm in Scotland and maybe I'll look it up anyway even if I have no intention of doing anything legal about it/ It would be useful to know for possible future encounters with others. I've stated that I felt it was not right of him and since he's still willing to speak to me, I'm going to assume he's at the very least thought about it.

In a way, I think I was asking about how people felt about it in a moral sense too but forgot to state that properly/at all.


WerewolfPoet wrote:
However, the symptoms found in Borderline Personality Disorder are those that could also have alternative explanations. I neither know the person in question nor the field of abnormal psychology to say to what extent the insecure/critical symptoms can be explained by the agitation that sometimes accompanies some forms of depression and the hyper-protectiveness that can sometimes accompany some presentations of anxiety or to what extent any of those factors are impacted by any trauma-related issues that may be present due to the situation with his father (although, yet again, there does seem to be at least some correlation between childhood trauma and adulthood Borderline Personality Disorder).


See, I had considered Borderline Personality Disorder in myself in the past until I learned about C-PTSD and the possibly Aspergers (as you maybe already know, many females can be misdiagnosed with BPD until a more experienced clinician assesses them for AS). Although in my teens my behaviour was wild, now you generally have to set me off or wait until I'm worn out before I get too bad with the more outwardly expressive traits. For my ex, they just seem to be there.

I think I will look up the differential diagnoses for BPD and see if anything makes a bit more sense. It really could "just" come down to the trauma. Hopefully he will get to see a decent therapist. I worry a bit because he doesn't really have anybody to encourage him unless his friends are willing to try again or his mother can see he needs it, so if he gets a negligent or mean-spirited therapist then he may give up entirely instead of switching.


WerewolfPoet wrote:
I wish both he and you the utmost healing and peace.


Thank you for your kind words and for the input. :)


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tombo12boar
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15 Jul 2015, 4:39 pm

Let's be blunt now. If this person does not want to see you again its not your business to be worrying about what he has or to be writing pages of text about him. Let him go.



NyxBean
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15 Jul 2015, 6:44 pm

tombo12boar wrote:
Let's be blunt now. If this person does not want to see you again its not your business to be worrying about what he has or to be writing pages of text about him. Let him go.


Considering the fact he asked me to call him tomorrow, I don't think that's an issue. Plus, I let him know that I was seeking for understanding. You ignored the part where I mentioned that we talked and it went well. If you are going on a blunt crusade* then at least understand the situation.

The quote from my OP that you seem to have missed:

Quote:
We've talked on the phone since I wrote out the following list. He sounded pleased to see me, apologised for not getting a message or two to me, said he should have realised, and told me he'd not been talking as he was still confused about his actions in the relationship and during the break up. Now I am calm and very sympathetic but when I wrote the following out, I was frustrated and extremely confused. Still, it pretty much applies.


I don't know why I put "see" instead of "hear".

*you've commented in other posts I've made.


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Ettina
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03 Aug 2015, 8:38 am

NyxBean wrote:
So when I was online, drunk and crying, he invited me round to his. I don't remember much of the evening but he was sober when I arrived and I'd already gone through more than half a box of wine. I apparently spilled some on myself and took my top off. I don't know if he covered me up but he did decide to start drinking and allowing me to drink more. I think there were two or three bottles of wine around. We had sex but I can't remember a thing about it. We decided to start the relationship the next day because I had already stated to everybody that I would not be having sex without attachment any more. Women I have spoken to are creeped out about him not putting me to bed or giving me coffee or inviting me around in the first place, whereas men clam up: I'm not too aware of social convention - what's that all about? Also, I feel it wasn't correct but not rape, am I right?


It was rape, actually. If you were so drunk you were having trouble remembering, you were too drunk to consent.



NyxBean
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03 Aug 2015, 9:00 am

Ettina wrote:
It was rape, actually. If you were so drunk you were having trouble remembering, you were too drunk to consent.


As bizarre as it sounds, I've tried to tell his mother as I don't want to make it a police matter. I mean, I'll just look like the spiteful and spurned ex, I won't be believed by the police and they'll interrogate me, and everybody who even remotely knows him will shun me.

Telling his mother could bring that and more, but I thought it was worth a shot. She keeps ignoring what exes have said about a variety of issues, I hear, but she hasn't done her usual screaming at me as she did to the others. Unfortunately I can only do it through fb as there's no email and so many people don't notice messages coming into that other folder.

I don't want to talk to him again for various reasons but somehow I want there to be that one chance for the person who knows him to get it into his skull that he's acting recklessly and he will eventually run into trouble. I think he's broken, not inherently... whatever you want to call it. Not apologising for what he did in this or in other ways to me and others of course, but I'd prefer it if he saw "the light" rather than the consequences of continuing to act with no thought.

It's very stupid and pathetic of me, I understand that.


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