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Misery
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11 Sep 2015, 1:03 pm

Okay! So, now the game has released, FINALLY. I've gotten my hands on it, and have had a good few hours with it.

The good: Damn near everything.

The bad: The Expert mode of 100-Mario challenge is where many of the BAD stages end up; people die a bunch of times, declare it stupid, and skip. Unfortunately, as I'd expected, alot of players do things like:

1. Enemy spam. Seriously, you DONT need to drown the player in giant Goombas wearing Hammer Bros for hats in order to create difficulty!

2. Memory reliance. If you *have* to already know something about a specific section of the level to get past it without A: taking a hit, or B: dying, it's a design mistake.

3. Super precision jumps. Dont get me wrong: These arent actually bad. Unless the level is JUST these over and over. It's not that it's broken or even all that difficult in many cases... it's just that it's boring. When these are used WELL though, they can really add to a level. I like levels that COMBINE these with other design aspects to make something interesting.

4. Bowser with a stack of every enemy ever on his head. With wings. .......why?

5. Putting a bazillion enemies in ? blocks or bricks. This... doesnt really add much in the way of difficulty. It's another memory thing: if you already know it's there, it's suddenly a totally nullified trap. Put too many of these in, and the player will very quickly just stop hitting blocks, so all of this "difficulty" you've stuck in there suddenly no longer exists. Use these SPARINGLY, dammit!

6. No powerups. Ok, seriously, you CAN create levels of very high difficulty while at the same time offering powerups throughout (I'm at least relatively certain that I've just done this). Giving Mario a mushroom or fire flower doesnt exactly make for an instant win, after all. It DOES, though, mean that the player is less likely to get frustrated and skip. Dying over and over again by getting hit ONCE, at every point in the level, is just obnoxious. Not to mention kinda dull.

7. Lakitu spam. Self-explanitory.

8. INSTANT HORRIBLE DEATH. You start the level, title display shows, you hear about half of a BOOP of the music as the level starts, and you're dead, because you didnt psychically know that you have to hold left/right/whatever the VERY INSTANT the level started. These appear more frequently than you'd think.

9. Kaizo. Ugh.


Of course, I aint exactly always free of issues myself. In my case, it's....

10. Underestimating your level's difficulty. Yyyyyyup. Shoulda remembered this, from it happening nearly every time I make a level in LittleBigPlanet. I go through, think, hey, that's an okay challenge, not too tough really. And then a couple of days later I go and look at it and it has the "EXTREME DIFFICULTY" tag (or whatever that specific tag is) and comments like "OMG SO HARD". Ugh, I've already managed it for THIS game.


Stuff like that. That being said though, there's still plenty that offer a very definite, real challenge.... while also being good. The sort that kill you like 20 times, but they are good levels, so you keep going anyway! I've seen some pretty neat stuff here. But, for many players, you'll find alot more enjoyment (and still plenty of challenge) playing on Normal. It really, REALLY helps if you remember to give stars when you find a course that is good/decent. Leave a comment, too!

Or, of course, you could go browse courses too and play them one at a time. But the 100-Mario challenge IS really damn fun (seriously, I freaking love this mode!), and you unlock costumes by doing it! It turns out you can unlock *every* costume by doing it: you dont need the Amiibos, but it could take you a bazillion years to get specific ones you want WITHOUT those. There are ALOT of costumes. So many. So very many. Plenty that arent amiibo-related, and then of course plenty that are. The Mystery Mushroom is great fun.


Editor is bloody brilliant, too! I dont even need to say much about this: it's not perfect, but it's sooooooooo close. Sticking wings on everything to see what happens is hilarious.

I finished my own very first level awhile ago after a good 3 hours of working on it, using a concept I randomly came up with that involves cannonballs, and uploaded it. I'd wondered how one might go about getting these levels NOTICED, but... even as I sit here typing this, I'm seeing the yellow notices on the TV pop up saying "So and so played your level!" or "So and so gave it a star!". So it's working out.... somehow.


So, for anyone else here that ends up getting the game.... what do you think of it? What are you liking, disliking?

And also, feel free to post your own level codes here for us to try out!


The level code for my own first one: FE7C-0000-0014-EDDC

If you try it, well.... I *did* mention the difficulty, so you've been warned... And yes, it's absolutely possible to do it without taking a single hit. Usually I'll either do that, or take just one hit while going through it myself.

But yeah, if anyone else here makes anything.... post your own levels too!



xenocity
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11 Sep 2015, 8:02 pm

Too soon for you to be going off...

My first level "Jumpity JUMP" ID: 156A-0000-0018-F5F6
My second level is called "?" ID: 5460-0000-0019-E562


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xenocity
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11 Sep 2015, 8:44 pm

My 3rd level is called Squeeze!
Course ID: 1793-0000-001A-EEC6

This one is my first truly good made level, see if you can beat it muhahahahah!

Spoiler wrote:
It requires good platforming skills...!


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Misery
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12 Sep 2015, 1:44 am

xenocity wrote:
My 3rd level is called Squeeze!
Course ID: 1793-0000-001A-EEC6

This one is my first truly good made level, see if you can beat it muhahahahah!
Spoiler wrote:
It requires good platforming skills...!


Done and done! :D

I kept walking off the damn second block though. No, I dont know why.... I seem to manage to do that alot in this game. Difficult jumps? Hah! Not if I dont jump at all and walk to my doom! Ugh. It's most embarrassing when it happens at the very start of a level though. Into a pit that's a single block wide.

What made that stupider is that I *didnt* walk to my doom with the jumps FROM the pipes.

I'm Xijaa on there, by the way. I'd wanted the name Misery but for obvious reasons do not have it. Ah, getting names I want on stuff can be frustrating.


Quote:
Too soon for you to be going off...


Who did what now?



xenocity
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12 Sep 2015, 2:23 am

Misery wrote:
xenocity wrote:
My 3rd level is called Squeeze!
Course ID: 1793-0000-001A-EEC6

This one is my first truly good made level, see if you can beat it muhahahahah!
Spoiler wrote:
It requires good platforming skills...!


Done and done! :D

I kept walking off the damn second block though. No, I dont know why.... I seem to manage to do that alot in this game. Difficult jumps? Hah! Not if I dont jump at all and walk to my doom! Ugh. It's most embarrassing when it happens at the very start of a level though. Into a pit that's a single block wide.

What made that stupider is that I *didnt* walk to my doom with the jumps FROM the pipes.

I'm Xijaa on there, by the way. I'd wanted the name Misery but for obvious reasons do not have it. Ah, getting names I want on stuff can be frustrating.


Quote:
Too soon for you to be going off...


Who did what now?


Just send it in the Friends Request message (I'm turning in soon).

I was referring to your rant.


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xenocity
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12 Sep 2015, 3:05 am

For everyone else:
Anywho hit me up at Xenocity on Miiverse or @NXenocity on Twitter everyone!
FYI: My Twitter feed is just for gaming and tech.


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Misery
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12 Sep 2015, 9:42 am

And my second level is completed finally: 6513-0000-001f-7c60

Ugh, that one took alot of work. But I like it. And I didnt have to spend a bazillion years tweaking cannon positions like I did with the previous one. This one's more traditional, and includes a jaunt through the overworld and a detour into an underwater cavern that's partly frozen. It features a dead fish at the end.

After seeing a bazillionty deaths marked on my previous level on the section I thought was the EASIEST, I toned down the difficulty quite a bit for this next one.

Also.... I went into the course browser for the first time (mostly I enjoy the 100 Mario challenges alot more), and... the "most popular" section is just... bleh. I dont think I'll go back there anytime soon. A bazillion "Dont touch any buttons!" or "Flappy Mario Bird Thing!" levels. I didnt find much there. I *did* find a bunch I thought were really good in the "featured" and "up and coming" areas.

Also: The Arwing. I never woulda expected something like THAT as a Mystery Mushroom costume. Just.... what. Unlocked that earlier after another hilarious 100 Mario jaunt. Seriously, I could just play that all day...

This game has reminded me just how much I can enjoy 2D platformers.



xenocity
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13 Sep 2015, 1:12 am

Misery wrote:
And my second level is completed finally: 6513-0000-001f-7c60

Ugh, that one took alot of work. But I like it. And I didnt have to spend a bazillion years tweaking cannon positions like I did with the previous one. This one's more traditional, and includes a jaunt through the overworld and a detour into an underwater cavern that's partly frozen. It features a dead fish at the end.

After seeing a bazillionty deaths marked on my previous level on the section I thought was the EASIEST, I toned down the difficulty quite a bit for this next one.

Also.... I went into the course browser for the first time (mostly I enjoy the 100 Mario challenges alot more), and... the "most popular" section is just... bleh. I dont think I'll go back there anytime soon. A bazillion "Dont touch any buttons!" or "Flappy Mario Bird Thing!" levels. I didnt find much there. I *did* find a bunch I thought were really good in the "featured" and "up and coming" areas.

Also: The Arwing. I never woulda expected something like THAT as a Mystery Mushroom costume. Just.... what. Unlocked that earlier after another hilarious 100 Mario jaunt. Seriously, I could just play that all day...

This game has reminded me just how much I can enjoy 2D platformers.

There is 100 costumes to unlock via Amiibo and/or 100 Mario challenge.
Press the - button and it swap out the level for a new one.

Also the creation tools are unlocked by time spent on level creation (5+ minutes per created level).


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Misery
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13 Sep 2015, 3:16 am

Yeah, quite a ton of costumes to get in there. I'm surprised at how many they included.

As for unlocking, I did it all in a bit over an hour, I think it was. You spend the 5 minutes or so, then it queues the unlocking for the next day, and then you pick a block and spam the hell out of it until it says "the delivery has arrived early!" and the next stuff unlocks. Use all of those elements at least once, mess around for another 5 minutes, spam blocks, repeat.

Originally you had to do the "time travel" thing if you wanted to unlock everything all at once, but I guess the 1.01 patch changed it to this? It was easy enough either way.

On another note, it turns out it's possible to actually place the Skinny Mushroom after all. You just need to clear ALL of the 10-Mario levels, and then the 4 levels from the World Championships open up, and you get the mushroom unlocked by beating all 4. The 4th one is a real snot to finish!

I am now making a level themed around Skinny Mario, because how could I NOT do that? Obviously I have no choice. It has to be done.



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16 Sep 2015, 3:32 pm

very nice levels, Misery. definitely saving you to favorites.


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League_Girl
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09 Oct 2015, 1:35 pm

I just created some levels and I followed Misery and xenocity.

Here are mine:

7144-0000-0097-5CB4 "Crazy Falling Enemies"

5C92-0000-0095-935B "Just the beginning"

BD3D-0000-0095-9163 "Gappy Edge"


I just need more tools so I can make better courses. I can't wait until tomorrow to get the underwater theme.


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Misery
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10 Oct 2015, 1:11 am

League_Girl wrote:
I just created some levels and I followed Misery and xenocity.

Here are mine:

7144-0000-0097-5CB4 "Crazy Falling Enemies"

5C92-0000-0095-935B "Just the beginning"

BD3D-0000-0095-9163 "Gappy Edge"


I just need more tools so I can make better courses. I can't wait until tomorrow to get the underwater theme.



You dont have to wait at all actually.

Here's the method:

Whatever tools they most recently gave you, use each of them at least once on the map. Doesnt matter where or how, just plop them down.

Take any basic block, and spam the funky hell out of it. Just scribble it all over the place. Continue doing this for awhile.

After a short time, the game will pop up a message saying "The shipment arrived earlier than we thought it would!", and it'll give you the example level for the next set of stuff, and then unlock it. Rinse and repeat until everything is opened. It actually doesnt take long at all. This is how I did it right from the beginning; if you know your Mario games at all, there's no reason to wait on it. Most of the objects are very self explanitory. Some things do require a bit of experimentation to see every possible thing that they can do though. For example, a Dry Bones (undead Koopa, walks back and forth, also throws bones in Super Mario world) turns into.... an undead fish, if placed in water. I forget what this fish is called, but it sort of patrols back and forth, and when you get close enough to it, it flips the heck out and charges at you, but will shatter the moment it hits a block of any sort.

Or there's the pattern change that happens to Bowser Junior if you put wings on him; he stops throwing fireballs, and instead flings lots of hammers around. I'm not sure how this makes any sense whatsoever, but that's what happens.

Or there's Yoshi's ability to shoot things based on stuff he eats. Have him grab a hammer out of the air, and he can launch it right back at the jerk that threw it, using the same arc motion that hammers normally have. And while he can no longer shoot 3 fireballs using a red Koopa, there ARE still fireballs he can launch, and he can now shoot three BONES if he grabs a Dry Bones, which is just as entertaining as it sounds. This all gives him quite a boost, really. He can be very effective. There's a bunch of other things he can eat now too, half of which dont make a whole lot of sense.

There's ALOT of hidden things like that in the game. A ton of them. And they're all interesting and useful. So definitely take some time to mess around.

Also, one more tip, for the very final unlock, which is just a single item: I'll not spoil just what that item is (though you might have figured it out already), but the key is to play through every single level in the 10-Mario challenge. It's definitely worth it to do. One of my levels is based entirely around that one item. It's also hilarious.

And I'll try your levels in just a bit here, and comment on them.

EDIT: GODDAMN CLOUDFLARE. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I wish that horrid service wasnt attached to this site. Needs to be freaking EXORCISED. So.... terrible....



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11 Oct 2015, 7:01 pm

I like it.

I spent a lot of time with it the first few days. Then after a while, the limits started killing my creativity. I can sort of understand the logic behind some of the limits, but if Nintendos idea is to avoid people spamming blocks, enemies and items then they failed to prevent that as there is an inflation of enemy spam levels, self-playing levels and music boxes as well as gimmick-themed levels.

The lack of an indexing system makes it impossible to find what you want. You have to luck out in the "up and coming" category for instane, and cross your fingers that there is something good to play there.

Perhaps tagging levels for searching and categorization is something Nintendo should consider.

On the positive side, the workflow is fantastic. Just drawing out levels on the gamepad is very satisfying, and it's such a quick process that you can easily capture inspiration as it flies by. UI and workflow is always a creativity killer in editors. Nintendo nailed the interface and workflow perfectly.

Now we just need more stuff to use! Perhaps SMB1,2 and 3 styles from the SNES all stars? More level themes, slopes, more sub-levels for warp pipes. These are just off the top of my head.

I really hope Nintendo will release some free addons eventually. The concept is just killer, but there is just too little to play with IMO to justify the asking price.

Overworld maps too would be nice. So you can design and overworld and string together levels into your own little story.

There is so much potential to be harnessed from a product that is already very good as it is in its current state.



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11 Oct 2015, 9:34 pm

i knew i had limited creativity when i got this game. most of my levels are just based off of other Nintendo Franchises. that is it for me. i am all about Nintendo. they are nothing special besides that. "nostalgia trips" for Nintendo fans.

i try my best to keep everything clean and forgiving. making things look and play good. presentation is everything.

one level code here. then you can access the rest of them by tapping my mii:

8C4B-0000-009C-8DCF


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Misery
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11 Oct 2015, 9:47 pm

Neotenous Nordic wrote:
I like it.

I spent a lot of time with it the first few days. Then after a while, the limits started killing my creativity. I can sort of understand the logic behind some of the limits, but if Nintendos idea is to avoid people spamming blocks, enemies and items then they failed to prevent that as there is an inflation of enemy spam levels, self-playing levels and music boxes as well as gimmick-themed levels.

The lack of an indexing system makes it impossible to find what you want. You have to luck out in the "up and coming" category for instane, and cross your fingers that there is something good to play there.

Perhaps tagging levels for searching and categorization is something Nintendo should consider.

On the positive side, the workflow is fantastic. Just drawing out levels on the gamepad is very satisfying, and it's such a quick process that you can easily capture inspiration as it flies by. UI and workflow is always a creativity killer in editors. Nintendo nailed the interface and workflow perfectly.

Now we just need more stuff to use! Perhaps SMB1,2 and 3 styles from the SNES all stars? More level themes, slopes, more sub-levels for warp pipes. These are just off the top of my head.

I really hope Nintendo will release some free addons eventually. The concept is just killer, but there is just too little to play with IMO to justify the asking price.

Overworld maps too would be nice. So you can design and overworld and string together levels into your own little story.

There is so much potential to be harnessed from a product that is already very good as it is in its current state.



They've already stated that they have no intention of releasing DLC with any more enemies/objects or any of that sort of thing.

Unfortunately, I have an idea why: Alot of players would actually reach a point of being overloaded if they had too many options. Yes, even though it means stuff you DONT HAVE TO USE. That's how things have become lately.

Some features also just wouldnt make sense. Overworld maps wouldnt work one bit; it'd be WAY too much effort that they'd need to make (they'd need a whole second editor!), and for the most part, nobody would bother playing it that way. Nearly all players wont take someone online, and just play through every single level that person has unless that person has already managed to amaze them somehow. And even then they still might not do it. Besides, these are classic-style Mario stuffs: story was never the point, fortunately for me (I hate story stuff in games).

And then other things are just unnecessary; stuff like the graphics themes from All-Stars. It'd be just a waste of resources for them, particularly when part of the appeal is that these games look mostly like the originals. They've already made it very clear that the graphics are not meant to be the appeal here. Even if, in a way, they sorta are.... And, sadly, they'd again risk confusing the hell out of players if they did more than one graphical style per game.


And it's already obvious that players get confused enough as it is. Most people tend to make pretty bad levels, and cant beat even quite easy levels.


That all being said, I've found that the game is WAAAAYYYYYYYY worth the asking price, and then some. Frankly, I would have happily paid more. There's plenty of room for creativity, which you can spot if you play enough levels; I'd originally thought that the number of objects wasnt going to be enough, but.... no, it's been working out pretty well. I've been able to come up with all sorts of things, and generally my levels seem to be considered pretty interesting and unique in their way. I have yet to come up with an idea and not be able to do it; so long as that idea makes sense within the context of Mario-style platforming. And some of the game's added mechanics make up for missing things a bit. Like the ability to stack enemies, I've found some entertaining things to do with that. Like Bowser in the original game... in the actual original game, in later levels he would, for some absolutely baffling reason, throw hammers out of his face in addition to his fire attacks. This makes no sense, but he did it anyway. He doesnt do that normally in this game, but I can slap a Hammer Bro on top of him, and I basically have what I want, with the added bonus of it looking ridiculous. Or maybe I just stick some of them fireball plants on him instead. Or.... things like that.

There's LOTS of things you can do, and in all honesty, I always think it's best to make sure that you're able to do a ton with fewer resources than to try to immediately do a ton with lots of them... because that often doesnt work the way the designer thinks it will, and usually becomes a horrible mess.

Still, if you want to try it ANYWAY, go look up a game called Super Mario Bros X. It is exactly what you are after. It's made by the guy that did Terraria, and plays/controls *exactly* like the All-Star games, with that graphical style.... and contains basically every Mario object there ever was, and the ability to put more in if you want. You can do pretty much anything with that editor (and no, it's not running off of roms of any sort). There's a whole big site and community for the game, but be warned that making levels with it is a dirt slow process, and the interface for the editor was clearly made by a drunken monkey with a hammer. But it's very, very good if that sort of thing is what you're after. Mario Maker is less irritating to use and more importantly MUCH easier to grab levels for, so I end up using that alot more, but SMBX is very good in it's own right. You might find it worth having a look at.


Also, as for finding levels... yeah, it does lack a normal search system, dont it? THAT I keep blaming on Nintendo not "getting" online stuff or the internet at all. All these years, and they still dont quite understand things there. But that's what the level codes are for, at least. It may be annoying, like their infamous friend codes (and it took them YEARS to get at least somewhat past those) but the damn thing at least functions. I've sorta gotten used to it at this point. I dont really have trouble finding interesting levels in-game though. The "featured" section is good for that, thanks to those preview maps.