arguments here are too serious

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lol legit, arguments do make sense but does it really matter how right somebody is, as long as the best results are obtained>

For example, that bullying thread, bullying is clearly bad, and positive can come from that. Maybe the author of the article doesn't need such flack but think about it, the emotional side is what I struggle with, and perhaps this time, I should consider that the most? Maybe so should you.

If you disagree please comment I welcome all responses

hmmm wow, I don't think I have ever experienced what you state. I see people giving their opinions and some are more direct than others, but I don't really see disrespect here vs. in the real world for giving an opinion...hmmm

1. Whether or not something is "too" anything is pretty subjective; the way I see this board (just my view) is that it's a forum for discussion. We aren't all going to be on an even keel about everything nor agree on the severity of everything. I'm not the judge of everyone else to decide what merits more serious discussion.

2. Re: the bullying thread - on subjects like that, yes, I do actually think they need more than "we'll agree to disagree" (my phrase, not the OP's, just clarifying that), the reason being it's not like arguing whether orange creme soda is better than root beer. The answer to the particular question of whether bullying is "okay" can affect how any given person treats the next helpless person, and to me that definitely is important.

3. Whether the ends justify the means - historically and on a variety of subjects, not always. In this case, IMO, deciding why bullying is or isn't okay is important to whether or not it will continue in the future, so yes, it does matter - again, IMO - who's "right or wrong" even if "positive" results (whatever you or I feel those may be) are obtained. And on a practical level, say my child won't eat her green beans. If I pry her mouth open and fork in the beans and then hold her mouth closed until she swallows, she has now gotten the positive benefit of ingesting green beans. Did it matter how that happened? Absolutely. Regarding bullying: the former victim is now more "street smart" and knows how to throw a punch and "is stronger." Does it matter that that happened as a defense against years of horror and emotional torture (and sometimes physical abuse) on the part of others? IMO, absolutely it does matter, even though the "positive" effects of knowing how to throw a punch, being stronger, etc. were obtained. (And by the way, those "positives" could have been obtained in other ways than bullying.) Hope all of that made sense, sometimes my words sort of tumble over one another.

You are obviously free to decide that for you, personally, the argument is frivolous. Nothing wrong with that. OTOH that's your decision and it's no one person's place, I feel, to decide what argument is worthy of more discussion (and more argument if that's what's taking place).

Last edited by NowhereWoman on 17 Oct 2015, 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think I struggle more emotional responses than most people here. Makes me feel weird because I am suppose to be NT

Maybe it would help if you stopped thinking of yourself as NT and overgeneralizing autistic people as non-emotional.

Maybe if you think of yourself as neurodivergent and non-autistic, that will allow you not to be surprised when you have trouble with emotional responses.

it would be boring here (and everywhere else) if arguments weren't serious.

I agree

the weird thing is I made this thread but I love it

The reactions are due to it "striking close to home". A lot of us were bullied and know full well that it's a very negative experience. The fact it purely contains positives (some of which are BS, might I add?) makes it appear as though she is portraying bullying autistics as a good thing. I doubt that was her intention, but I think the intention should be to try to stop kids targeting their autistic peers in the first place rather than look for advantages of them doing it.

People take things personally a lot here, perhaps more than in other forums.
More emotional and serious than INTJ forum, I think.
INTJ forum is more boring though.

Bullying as a serious subject especially for members here and the posts are going to reflect that.

In general autistics are quite intense about the subjects they are interested in, making light chit chat, or using euphemisms in order to make the tone of the conversations less serious goes against our brain wiring. So unintentionally you are asking Autistics not to act autistic on an Autism website.

That isn’t always the case. I certainly didn’t learn to fight from bullying; if anything, it gave me learned helplessness. However, this is only a bad thing if you care about the victims’ fate. It’s very debatable whether and why you should if you’re not yourself one of the victims who wasn’t overall benefitted by bullying. I think evidence suggests people do not naturally care about that, and it is to be expected considering what is good for the group.

Compare how very much impossible it is to get people to act consistently against bullying and not rush instead for ways to justify it, or engage in it without acknowledging it, with the universal stance people make against snitches. We instinctively don’t want anyone to report bullying to any kind of authority that would meddle and relieve anyone from their naturaly duty to fight their own battles with their own means. We innately regard as good and honorable what makes the strong stronger and the weak weaker. Sneaky behavior, relying on wiles and deception to avoid a physical confrontation with someone able to crush you is cowardly and makes everyone hate you, because you’re cheating. It’s very curious how the development of our intricate brain led us to want raw strength to prevail nonetheless. And it wouldn’t have happened if it hadn’t been evolutionarily advantageous for some reason or other.

Brains: Evil; Brawn: Good

wow didnt realize that sorry

Okay, your comments here and previously are actually a great analogy for the whole bullying issue.

I feel you want to get attention. You have admitted you're miserable. Button-pushing posts get you attention (at least sometimes). I can understand wanting attention. It's quite normal to desire attention. There are many ways to get attention - not just by being negative and hence getting negative attention. In this case, though - you may feel the ends (attention) justify the means (attempting to push people's buttons) but they haven't really done anything long-term for you. The next time around, people are still not going to pay attention to you until you button-push, because you haven't learned a better way yet. But since it sometimes works you keep doing it...rather than learn a different skill. Yet your bottom line is: It works! There are definitely perks to pushing buttons. The ends justify the means.

The bullying analogy: In the author's (and others') opinion(s) there are positive benefits that can (but by no means always, BTW) have some positive effects in some circumstances, such as better teamwork among adults in response. There are many ways of doing that. It doesn't have to be bullying that creates that atmosphere. But since it sometimes seems that bullying results in better teamwork among parents and it sometimes seems as if bullying teaches kids to deal with other kids better (better being subjective, but I digress), bullying is considered by the author to be a positive thing or at least that it encourages positive outcomes. Other means of obtaining these positives aren't even considered in the article (and there are many) nor is the fact that these "positives" are sporadic at best and by no means are a given in every situation. Rather...it is considered that the ends justify the means.

What bullying thread? Let me go kick up a stink

In the meantime - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sy2NjjgoFc

Here:

viewtopic.php?t=295712

LOL