In theory, which religion has better human rights?

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MonsterCrack
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08 Nov 2015, 4:07 pm

Islam, or Judaism? I think it's islam, for the following reasons:

Judaism: absolute hereditary monarchy
earliest Muslims: chose their caliphs democratically
judaism: woman's testimony not valid
islam: woman's testimony half of a man's
judaism: 3 year old girls can get married
islam: 9 year old girls can get married
judaism: girl's consent needed for marriage islam: girl's consent needed judaism: girl does not get inheritance if she has brothers... Islam: girl gets half the inheritance, but does not have to share it, whereas a man has to, with his family
judaism: kill all inhabitants of a city that has turned to idolatry, and burn it to the ground.... islam: the worst they did was smash the idols in the Kaaba... muhammad even made a pact with th pagans in madina
judaism: woman to marry her rapist islam: rapist to be killed judaism: kill homosexuals islam: kill homosexuals
judaism: kill adulterers islam: kill adulterers judaism: kill apostates islam: kill apostates judaism: woman can not go to university and work islam: women can (at least in the early days of Islam, jewish women even took advantage of this under Muslim rule). judaism: slavery islam: slavery meant to be slowly abolished judaism: exterminate the canaanites islam: ethnically cleanse the canaanites EDIT: judaism: a woman can not divorce her husband islam: a woman can



eric76
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08 Nov 2015, 5:07 pm

You have posted a lot of claims there. How about reference for each and every claim?



0_equals_true
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08 Nov 2015, 5:11 pm

The bar is so low it is not worth considering.



eric76
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08 Nov 2015, 5:16 pm

MonsterCrack wrote:
judaism: 3 year old girls can get married


This seems to me to be the most preposterous claim of all.

From http://www.timesofisrael.com/knesset-raise-minimum-marriage-age-from-17-to-18/:
Quote:
A bill raising the minimum legal marriage age from 17 to 18 passed its second and third readings in the Knesset Monday to become law.

Violating the new law carries a prison sentence of up to two years.

The bill that cleared the plenum Monday, besides setting the age at 18, allows the family court to recognize a marriage for minors in special cases — but only above 16 years of age, and only after it interviews the applicants and receives the recommendation of a social worker.



0_equals_true
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08 Nov 2015, 5:29 pm

eric76 he is probably talking about being betrothed in which case there is no age restriction in either religion.



eric76
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08 Nov 2015, 5:54 pm

You may be right.

However here is a case of forced marriage of girls as young as four years old and it was in Pakistan.

From http://tribune.com.pk/story/449221/vani-verdict/:

Quote:
In the latest episode, reported from Dera Bugti, 13 girls ranging from age four to 16 years were bartered to settle a blood feud between the Masoori and Shahwani Masoori tribes in the area. The case involves a murder, allegedly committed by a Masoori tribesman. Shockingly, Mir Tariq Masoori Bugti, a member of the Balochistan Assembly, is stated to have conducted the jirga which reached the verdict of ordering the children to be handed over. While he has denied involvement in the affair, he defended the practice of Vani as a valid means to settle disputes.


More detail from http://tribune.com.pk/story/448958/dera-bugti-jirga-13-girls-bartered-to-settle-tribal-feud/:
Quote:
The girls — aged between four and 16 — were given in Vani by a tribal jirga which arbitrated a five-month-old blood feud between the Baloch tribes of Masoori and Shahwani Masoori. Both are sub-clans of the Bugti tribe.

Mir Tariq Masoori Bugti, a lawmaker in the Balochistan Assembly, is said to have conducted the jirga, which was attended by tribal elders and notable locals, in the Baikar area of Phelawagh.

...

According to them, Masoori tribesman Roshan Khan had murdered Mira Khan, a Shahani Masoori tribesman. The jirga declared Roshan Khan guilty and ruled that his tribe give 13 girls in Vani to the offended family besides an Rs3 million fine.

Vani is a tribal custom in which girls are forcibly married off to settle tribal feuds.

A senior official based in Dera Bugti confirmed the girls were bartered and that they were aged between four and 16.



MonsterCrack
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08 Nov 2015, 6:00 pm

im referring to what was practiced in the earliest days of islam and judaism.... in the earliest days of islam, a girlhad to have hit menstruation for her to get married... in judaism, moses's followers married 3 year old girls...



eric76
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08 Nov 2015, 6:04 pm

MonsterCrack wrote:
im referring to what was practiced in the earliest days of islam and judaism.... in the earliest days of islam, a girlhad to have hit menstruation for her to get married... in judaism, moses's followers married 3 year old girls...


The thread title: In theory, which religion has better human rights?

The word "has" refers to the present.

And do you really expect us to believe that Aisha was menstruating by the age of six years old when Mohammed married her or by the age of nine years old when he "consummated" the marraige?



MonsterCrack
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08 Nov 2015, 6:24 pm

Yes, I expect you to believe that... none of us are historians or scholars of Islam, so it is not for us to judge.



eric76
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08 Nov 2015, 6:26 pm

MonsterCrack wrote:
Yes, I expect you to believe that... none of us are historians or scholars of Islam, so it is not for us to judge.


I don't know about others, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that.

And yes, it is for us to judge.



MonsterCrack
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08 Nov 2015, 6:28 pm

it is a sign of arrogance if you think you know better than historians in history, a subject you have no University level education in.... historians agree that the marriage was arranged when aisha was 6, but aishas father asked for her consent when she was 9, and when she was 9 she was menstruating.....



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08 Nov 2015, 6:32 pm

MonsterCrack wrote:
it is a sign of arrogance if you think you know better than historians in a subject you have no University level education in.... historians agree that the marriage was arranged when aisha was 6, but aishas father asked for her consent when she was 9, and when she was 9 she was menstruating.....


It's a sign of intelligence to refuse to believe that which is extraordinarily unlikely.



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08 Nov 2015, 6:36 pm

and what makes you the expert on A'isha's menstruation? someone who has no formal education in Islam, someone who is not a historian, someone who is not a doctor who has studied medical conditions of past populations.... again, you are being arrogant..... aisha had started menstruation when abu bakr (RA) asked her if she wanted to marry Muhammad



MonsterCrack
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08 Nov 2015, 6:37 pm

I am asking the mods to lock this thread since it is turning into a battle over history by two people who are clearly not experts and are not qualified to speak on this matter... it could get very, very stupid...



MonsterCrack
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08 Nov 2015, 6:41 pm

and eric, before the mods lock this thread, i want to say you have misunderstood... i said which religion I THEORY has better human rights, meaning what their scriptures say... not what is currently being practiced...



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08 Nov 2015, 6:42 pm

[MODERATOR]

PPR is primarily a discussion and debate forum.

If you post topics in here, you should expect that people are going to debate and discuss them. We're not going to keep locking threads simply because the thread isn't going the way you want it to. It's is not fair to the other posters.

If you dislike having your ideas questioned, I would suggest you stop posting in PPR.

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