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Ecomatt91
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02 Dec 2015, 8:15 pm

Hi all, been busy lately and enjoying life.

I have been changed person since the last thread I made on here.

This young lady I met, who is turning 27 later this month. We met through Meetup group of 'socially anxious and young'. The group is basically non alcoholic, board games, movie nights and visiting the markets. The days when I met her was blurry. I couldn't remember how, though I remember slightly about this BBQ welcome event back in August or July (mind my correction later on to check when was it). Then we suddenly talked more at the movie night a month later.

Although this isn't a dating nor girlfriend potential. What made me to step back a little is finding out she have PTSD. That why she joined a similar meetup group as me because of anxiety and depression. We aren't both severe on the scale. No medications required. Many weeks and months since the movie night we watched, she didn't want to trade phone numbers with me, but instead use Facebook messaging. I found out why. She doesn't trust guys and not being comfortable with them alone in a non public place.

Basically I shared my issues of hearing loss and ASD. Then she shared that she tell me why she have PTSD. She was raped by her date when she used to party person years ago. My heart stopped here for a bit because it just something I don't like to hear from especially being a guy. I have huge respect for women. That why I have lots of female friends. It something I have been learning to understand their perspectives.

So we continued to hang out at a snail pace. Over the months until last Friday she finally come out and invite me to hang out with her alone in a public place. She told me it first time she hang out with a male alone for years. She have plenty of girlfriends that she keep in company with. Prior to that event she used to be frustrated with my negativity (like I originally posted on WP). I took further psychology appointments and that. I told her that I took them, in return she told me she goes to them as well. This is a WIN-WIN situation because I feel more mature about this and I am seeing her quite mature by judging the way how she speak and message me.

I learned the assertive and listen-observe-ask methods from my psychology appointments. She shared to me that she learned a same thing too. Now I feel good about this because it what I need. Someone being assertive to me in return. I find there are so many people, including NT lack of these effective communication strategies and skills.

So we continued messaging on Facebook about things what we do and learn about things. On other night, she messaged me that she is happy for me to take a lot of pressure off her from talking to me since the beginning we first started talking (because I used to be negative). Suddenly she got more comfortable with me, as a friend and being with a guy. I asked her out on a date many months ago and she rejected about that (this is where I got negative). She explained me to why she rejected. She want to build friendships first. Then I took that advice and didn't talk about relationships and dating since then. Other guy who we both know from the same Meetup group, she told me he constantly asking her out on a date many times and she kept rejecting him. She told me it not respecting her by not listening to her that he should stop asking. I can judge myself on this because I used to be that kind of guy, of being desperate by asking women many times. It such a turn off and cross the line for her.

So she knows I have hearing loss and ASD. She clearly understand this because she is a teacher aide at a special school. I guess this helped her to understand my perspectives, and that helped me to learn from her perspectives from explaining things. This building trust, basing on assertive communication strategies. There is some common things we have that is actually keep us talking is that we do sign language (she learning to be a professional interpreter; and I am native in auslan), she loves storms and so do I. She also want to get married and have a family. She wants a fulfilling career and so do I.

I am not going to get overboard about her, even if I try to ask her out on a date again. To be honest I feel it is not ready. We haven't even hang out alone in a non public place yet. Just alone in public places so far. We haven't touched each others yet like hugs, kiss on cheek etc. She haven't shared her phone number to me yet. So I guess I wait until these stuff to happen, then I can ask her....or I wait for her to ask me. I can see she have a potential, and I guess it a same with me. I doubt the physical attraction plays role in here because it is not part of the equation since the fact she wanted to build friendships, comfort and trust first. This is totally opposite to people go out on dates with a stranger first.

Before I end this very long post, she told me she doesn't hang out with guys other than me because there are NO guys she is comfortable nor have trust with. I am the only one. Of course she talk to other guys, but nowhere close like me. So I am asking some advice here to make sure I continue to respect her boundaries, understand her PTSD issues and that.



kraftiekortie
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02 Dec 2015, 8:28 pm

Who knows? Maybe you've found your One and Only!

Yeah... I would continue to be cautious with her.

If I feel romantically-inclined, I would drop hints, though.....maybe compliment her on how pretty her eyes are.



Ecomatt91
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02 Dec 2015, 9:23 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Who knows? Maybe you've found your One and Only!

Yeah... I would continue to be cautious with her.

If I feel romantically-inclined, I would drop hints, though.....maybe compliment her on how pretty her eyes are.


If I ask that myself, I say I have no idea. At same time she told me I respect her a lot more recently and tells me I am a changed man since we first met.

Yea. We both agreed that if we offended each others, we will both let each others if the feelings is bad. That is part of listen-observe-ask communication strategy. This reduces anxiety.

I am not sure how it can be romantically-included? I have complimented her few times. Like we hang out last Friday that I liked her dress. We both went to Kmart, into women's section. My mind blown because I thought she wouldn't be comfortable with a guy showing herself a dress. She have PTSD, my brain cries out for loud. This slightly confuses me a little basing on women's experiences of being raped. This loses trust and comfortable of judging the way she wear and her body appearance. At one stage we were there she told me she losing weight. Her depression had her to gain weight. She definitely looks nice.



kraftiekortie
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02 Dec 2015, 9:28 pm

It's great that she trusts you. I would continue on that path....taking it really slowly.

Who knows? Maybe she might put the moves on you!



Ecomatt91
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02 Dec 2015, 9:50 pm

Yea true, hopefully this comes out as an advantage on both sides. New years milestones? My first ever valentine's dinner? Who knows.

Any additional feedback and information on this thread is kindly appreciated.



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03 Dec 2015, 7:40 am

I certainly hope things work out for you. However, based on my experiences you need to be very cautious. I dated a number of women with PTSD-like symptoms and the first was my crazy ex who projected all her self-hatred onto me and thinks I am Satan himself, the second was a woman who was raped and beaten: she suddenly without warning flipped out at me, making me doubt my own sanity at the time. The third pretended everything was great but broke it off via text after 3 months and I know in hindsight I had no chance to get past the 'friend' zone.

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Before I end this very long post, she told me she doesn't hang out with guys other than me because there are NO guys she is comfortable nor have trust with. I am the only one. Of course she talk to other guys, but nowhere close like me

Yikes. That should be a huge red flag right there!

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So she knows I have hearing loss and ASD. She clearly understand this because she is a teacher aide at a special school.

On a side note, would you believe my last two serious dates before my Fiancee were both special ed teachers at elementary schools? My concern would be that she would see you like one of her students, as disabled rather than as a fellow adult. My point is don't take it personally if she never 'comes' around as there is a good chance she won't.



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03 Dec 2015, 8:15 am

I think you need to ask would you be happy been just a friend as that is what may happen.


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Pineapplejuicex
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03 Dec 2015, 1:43 pm

She's made it clear she only wants to be friends. Really, really, really clear.

If you are content to only be her friend, indefinitely, by all means keep hanging out with her as friends.

If you're being her friend with the ulterior motive of wanting to date her, that's disingenuous. Given how unhappy she is about the other dude asking her out and how happy she is to hang out with you because you only want to be friends and don't put pressure on her for a romance .... hanging around just so you can ask her out again will likely go over like a lead balloon.



Ecomatt91
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03 Dec 2015, 5:40 pm

Why its a red flag? I thought leading into good long term relationship happens to start from being friends. From learning communication strategies together, be comfortable of each others through trust and honesty, and be understanding of each others' differences. We did talked about this and we both agreed to be friends first. The other guy who constantly asking her out its because he is desperate. Like I used to be desperate, for wanting a girlfriend.

I highly doubt she sees me as a student. This sounds negative by stereotyping disabled people for not getting into a relationship because teacher aides see their boy-friends are like her students. That is a b***h. She is nowhere near being a b***h like that.

Like what you said about your previous girlfriends who have PTSD, just wondering they have counseling sessions regularly? I have a counselor too, and I am not crazy. We both talked about these counseling sessions, although she does not want to talk about all of the stuff of what she talk about. That is crossing the line. I respect her boundaries of this private personal matter. Her actions weren't fake, by judging her maturity that she learned from her sessions. She was going to hang out with me yesterday but she had a bad day, and had a session talking about her past and that. I am glad she taking this personally alone, because it would seem crazy if she still hang out with me after that sessions. I had to respect her boundaries by this because its traumatic, and she need space to be calm about it.

Giving a lot of personal space to significant others is best thing in friendships and relationships. It helped me to be mindful of who I am and what I want to do.

I am sorry to say this, but I am mindful of your opinion on this seeing her as a 'red flag'. I don't agree with that. I am not dumb about it, because we both talked about quite few things.

EDIT

Oh just wanted to add something. Being patient and respectful of someone you like starting off friends is best way than jumping in bed with a stranger from day 1, or love at first sight because these kind of stuff don't last and its really hurtful. So I am taking this consideration to respect myself from not getting hurt, this helps her not to be hurt, again like what guys did to her.

Many women in their 20's starting to get over these type of relationships, or forceful experiences because they learned a lot of things over time and they prioritise better people instead. Think about it!



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03 Dec 2015, 6:44 pm

Ecomatt91 wrote:
Why its a red flag? I thought leading into good long term relationship happens to start from being friends. From learning communication strategies together, be comfortable of each others through trust and honesty, and be understanding of each others' differences. We did talked about this and we both agreed to be friends first. The other guy who constantly asking her out its because he is desperate. Like I used to be desperate, for wanting a girlfriend.

I highly doubt she sees me as a student. This sounds negative by stereotyping disabled people for not getting into a relationship because teacher aides see their boy-friends are like her students. That is a b***h. She is nowhere near being a b***h like that.

Like what you said about your previous girlfriends who have PTSD, just wondering they have counseling sessions regularly? I have a counselor too, and I am not crazy. We both talked about these counseling sessions, although she does not want to talk about all of the stuff of what she talk about. That is crossing the line. I respect her boundaries of this private personal matter. Her actions weren't fake, by judging her maturity that she learned from her sessions. She was going to hang out with me yesterday but she had a bad day, and had a session talking about her past and that. I am glad she taking this personally alone, because it would seem crazy if she still hang out with me after that sessions. I had to respect her boundaries by this because its traumatic, and she need space to be calm about it.

Giving a lot of personal space to significant others is best thing in friendships and relationships. It helped me to be mindful of who I am and what I want to do.

I am sorry to say this, but I am mindful of your opinion on this seeing her as a 'red flag'. I don't agree with that. I am not dumb about it, because we both talked about quite few things.

EDIT

Oh just wanted to add something. Being patient and respectful of someone you like starting off friends is best way than jumping in bed with a stranger from day 1, or love at first sight because these kind of stuff don't last and its really hurtful. So I am taking this consideration to respect myself from not getting hurt, this helps her not to be hurt, again like what guys did to her.

Many women in their 20's starting to get over these type of relationships, or forceful experiences because they learned a lot of things over time and they prioritise better people instead. Think about it!


Except that you'd absolutely jump into bed with a girl if there was a girl, any girl, who'd have you. Plus, there's no need to sneer and look down upon folks who have a different approach to dating than you do. Safe, consenting adults can do what they please and just because it's not how you would do it doesn't make it wrong. You want to wait? Cool. Somebody else want to hop into bed with a consenting adult? Equally cool.

One question: would you continue to be this girl's friend if you remained only her friend forever?

I still think it's disingenuous (and hopeless, to be frank) to hang out with a girl who has told you fourteen ways to Sunday that she's not interested in romance because you think you'll wear her down.

(All those communication lessons, repeat visits to therapists that enable you to converse with her / feel superior to your peers? Good thing because, hey, you're improving your communication skills. Inauspicious relationship omens possibly because, hey, you've elected to pursue a woman who doesn't get you without an inordinate amount of professional assistance).



Ecomatt91
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03 Dec 2015, 6:58 pm

There are two perspectives on getting a relationship with someone. As from my learning experiences, listening to people and my psychologists this year.

1. Casual dating/relationships - lets hop in bed and shag = short term relationship.

2. Want to have a committed and long term relationship? You must start off as friends. Learn about each others and give personal space.

There is absolutely nothing wrong from doing both. However, this women doesn't want option 1. Likewise many people starting to take option 2 when they are getting older, especially into mid and late 20's and 30's. People kept telling me, from these ages, they are so over about option 1.

Who said she going to be friends forever? Only you. She and I didn't say about that. You really can't tell if she going to be my friends forever or be the one. Look at Krafiekoorte comments earlier in this thread. He is experienced in relationships.

I am pretty sure he have plentiful experiences to share especially going through friendships first. That what you learn from older people. Don't learn the mistakes.



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03 Dec 2015, 9:46 pm

Ecomatt91 wrote:
There are two perspectives on getting a relationship with someone. As from my learning experiences, listening to people and my psychologists this year.

1. Casual dating/relationships - lets hop in bed and shag = short term relationship.

2. Want to have a committed and long term relationship? You must start off as friends. Learn about each others and give personal space.

There is absolutely nothing wrong from doing both. However, this women doesn't want option 1. Likewise many people starting to take option 2 when they are getting older, especially into mid and late 20's and 30's. People kept telling me, from these ages, they are so over about option 1.

Who said she going to be friends forever? Only you. She and I didn't say about that. You really can't tell if she going to be my friends forever or be the one. Look at Krafiekoorte comments earlier in this thread. He is experienced in relationships.

I am pretty sure he have plentiful experiences to share especially going through friendships first. That what you learn from older people. Don't learn the mistakes.


1. Not necessarily.
2. Not necessarily.

There is no "right" way to date. People who jump into bed and people who don't and people who are friends first fall in love and live happily ever after.

"All" women in their 20s and 30s don't prefer any one style of dating. Nor do "all" men those ages. Or anybody of any age of any sex for that matter. Your desire to be friends first does not make you any better (or worse) than anybody else. You are not more (or less) mature than any other singleton for wanting to be friends first.

(FWIW, I've had a lot of fun dating and also hooking up and have zero regrets. It's possible to have had a lot of fun, safe sex and have no regrets. Of my 4 serious boyfriends, 2 was friends with first, 1 was literal love at first sight and the current/best I met online. The maybe 30 weddings I've been to in the past few years were for friends who met in a roughly even mix of those ways, plus two from blind dates).

If you're happy with the approach to dating you've adopted? Yay for you. No need to put others down or insist your way is the only way. Since you've had exactly zero relationships and zero dates, perhaps you might be willing to consider not lecturing others on what they are doing wrong dating-wise.



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03 Dec 2015, 10:38 pm

Quote:
If you're happy with the approach to dating you've adopted? Yay for you. No need to put others down or insist your way is the only way. Since you've had exactly zero relationships and zero dates, perhaps you might be willing to consider not lecturing others on what they are doing wrong dating-wise.


THIS is what I have been told by many people. All of my counselors and psychologists told by judging my morals and values I should be friends with women first. Its because I get hurt anyways. Being an aspie is prone to meltdowns and attacks. I have a hearing loss too, so most women won't able to be comfortable talking to someone who communication of listening and speaking isn't on same level.

I always have been lectured by everyone! My family, friends, counselors, psychologists and even strangers told me I should wait! I have been waiting waiting, apart from the times I was desperate of asking someone out for a date or sex. Both ways of waiting and being desperate doesn't give me dates and experience. So the option doesn't open for sex workers thing, that just fake and doesn't change the 'waiting for someone experience'.

That is why you see me appear lecturing other people about this. I kept getting heard of people have rebound relationships get hurt, getting raped, cheated on and everything that involves someone ended up hurt and painful. This is what I learned from avoiding these situations.

So why you telling me I have been friend zoned or whatever from this women? Are you bagging on me, like jealously or something? Lot of aspie guys on here are horny and desperate. I used to be like that, thus ended up depressed. Now I am not depressed because I am enjoying about myself and be patient. Being patient helps. This is how I met this women.

She never said to me that she doesn't like me. Only she said she want to start off as friends and build on that, and see where it goes. So far its taking time. That is what and how you develop a relationship with someone, that is being patient!

BE PATIENT!



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04 Dec 2015, 3:25 am

Katy just hates guys especially aspie guys.



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04 Dec 2015, 7:34 am

Ecomatt91 wrote:
Why its a red flag? I thought leading into good long term relationship happens to start from being friends. From learning communication strategies together, be comfortable of each others through trust and honesty, and be understanding of each others' differences. We did talked about this and we both agreed to be friends first. The other guy who constantly asking her out its because he is desperate. Like I used to be desperate, for wanting a girlfriend.

Well, I would assume you would want this to eventually lead to a long term relationship. If she has trust issues, in my experiences she *may* project that mistrust onto you. For example, my crazy ex was convinced beyond any doubt I was cheating on her and me saying "hi" to a female coworker or client constituted 'proof' in her mind. The second ex wanted to start off as friends but it never got off the ground. She said she trusted me but it's obvious in hindsight she had a deep distrust of men. Why? I will never know.

Quote:
I highly doubt she sees me as a student. This sounds negative by stereotyping disabled people for not getting into a relationship because teacher aides see their boy-friends are like her students. That is a b***h. She is nowhere near being a b***h like that.

That's good to hear but be mindful that many in those professions are addicted to helping, rescuing and fixing, especially someone who is 'disabled'.

Quote:
Like what you said about your previous girlfriends who have PTSD, just wondering they have counseling sessions regularly? I have a counselor too, and I am not crazy. We both talked about these counseling sessions, although she does not want to talk about all of the stuff of what she talk about. That is crossing the line. I respect her boundaries of this private personal matter. Her actions weren't fake, by judging her maturity that she learned from her sessions. She was going to hang out with me yesterday but she had a bad day, and had a session talking about her past and that. I am glad she taking this personally alone, because it would seem crazy if she still hang out with me after that sessions. I had to respect her boundaries by this because its traumatic, and she need space to be calm about it.

I tried to get the crazy ex to go to counseling and while she agreed, once the counselor started offering suggestions for improvement she quit. Ditto with couples counseling: she dropped out once he started zeroing in on her outrageous behavior and how to curb it. The second one might have gone to counseling but she showed all the signs of burying her trauma and refused to acknowledge it. I don't believe to this day she has and will probably end of a bitter, miserable and alone woman. Good thing she is seeking help and things might work out great but don't get your hopes up based on my experiences.

My Fiancee saw a counsellor and I am presently seeing one (although it's largely a waste of time) and I don't think that by itself is a bad thing but don't let anyone project their bad experiences onto you.

Quote:
I am sorry to say this, but I am mindful of your opinion on this seeing her as a 'red flag'. I don't agree with that. I am not dumb about it, because we both talked about quite few things.

Okay, but don't say I didn't try to warn you. People tried to warn me too at the time but I was convinced since we talked about her issues things were going to be fine. They were..... for the first two months and only got worse and worse.

Quote:
Oh just wanted to add something. Being patient and respectful of someone you like starting off friends is best way than jumping in bed with a stranger from day 1, or love at first sight because these kind of stuff don't last and its really hurtful. So I am taking this consideration to respect myself from not getting hurt, this helps her not to be hurt, again like what guys did to her.

I would disagree with this. I had an engagement ring picked out after 3 months and waited until month 5 before popping the question. I knew she was the one on the third date and this is typical of many married men I know. I'm sorry to say this but you clearly have a lot to learn about relationships first. Your naivety and inexperience is showing and I just hope you don't make the same mistakes I and many others made on the way to the top.

You are on the right track to be patient but I will let you in on a little secret: every woman I dated only got really interested in me once I made a bold move. For my Fiancee, I just grabbed her (gently) and gave her a huge kiss after date 3 and everything flowed from there. In the past, my cautiousness just let women know I wasn't really serious and didn't really know what I was doing. If I didn't grab her, she would have probably lost interest and moved on like so many did before her.

Absolutely keep going with this woman but don't think that you are any type of authority or expert on the subject. I look forward to hearing more about your adventures so keep us posted!



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04 Dec 2015, 8:30 am

sly279 wrote:
Katy just hates guys especially aspie guys.



Who is Katy?