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Should quotas for students with ASDs be similar to minorities?
Yes, NT minorities have them. Why not us? 50%  50%  [ 9 ]
No, I'm a [email protected] who wants to make life unfair for autistic people. 50%  50%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 18

Lifeistoohard
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22 Dec 2015, 6:41 pm

http://downtrend.com/vsaxena/bonus-sat- ... eing-black

Here's what I'm talking about.

If you give a candidate preferential treatment on this basis of race, that is, by definition, racism. To assume every minority has encountered discrimination, and therefore, level the playing field, is a generalization.

There are poor white people as well. Where's the quota for them? Oh wait! Their skin gets sunburned easily, so they have to work harder than a rich black student to get into the school of their choice.

And what about the Autistic/Asperger student? Most of whom been bullied, treated less than others, and had to work 10x harder in academics to succeed....



Fnord
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22 Dec 2015, 7:28 pm

Title I of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 prohibits private employers, State and local governments, employment agencies and labor unions from discriminating against qualified individuals with disabilities in job application procedures, hiring, firing, advancement, compensation, job training, and other terms, conditions, and privileges of employment. The ADA covers employers with 15 or more employees, including State and local governments. It also applies to employment agencies and to labor organizations.

This means that if you have a disability, it can not be held against you by an employer. Therefor, if ASDs are considered a disability, then you can not be discriminated against for having an ASD.

HOWEVER, what the OP is referring to is some form of Affirmative Action program for people with ASDs. This would discriminate against people who have no ASDs, just as current Affirmative Action programs discriminate against males and non-minority people.

[opinion=mine]

I believe that any Affirmative Action program is discriminatory. Employment should be based solely on a person's ability and willingness to do the work while getting along with co-workers. Sure, make accommodations for disabilities; but employing people solely for their disabilities, whether or not they can and will do the jobs, and whether or not they can and will get along with co-workers is simply bad for business.

I believe that giving employment preference to people with ASDs solely because they have an ASD is wrong.

[/opinion]

Fair hiring is merit-based.


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ASPartOfMe
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22 Dec 2015, 8:19 pm

Hiring should be solely on the persons ability to do the job. If that job is a salesperson ASD disqualifies most on merit. For a many if not most jobs you really need to be just good enough socially not to disrupt. That good networking and social skills are expected in most jobs is just bad business practice.

Most anti descrimination laws are not worth the paper they are written on for ASD. With blacks if the area where the office is located is 20 percent black and you hire zero, one or two blacks a good case could be made you are discriminating. With physical disabilities it might be somewhat harder. With ASD the company can say the candidate is not a good fit and unless the interviewer says something really stupid how do you prove otherwise? With ASD suppposidly at 2 percent of the population even if a quota is ordered it won't do that much good.

The only way to end anti autistic descrimination is through the long hard slog of changing attitudes. Some companies are starting understand that autistic traits are good for the bottom line.


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23 Dec 2015, 12:12 pm

My answer is no. Your wording on the no option is embarrassing. I'd change it if I were you.

Everything should be merit-based. Granted, it's not that way in some cases. Adding any further qualifiers to the Affirmative Action checklist is not how we fix the problem.

Between this and your other thread, it looks like you're angry at everything (and, seemingly, perceived as racist from how you lash out against perceived benefits of being the "other"). I suggest you refocus this effort inward and work on improving yourself, rather than blaming everyone else for your problems. I get that it's harder for Autistics on a daily basis, but adding to your anxiety by being angry at these perceived slights will only serve to drag you down further. As such, I hope you find peace with whatever is aggravating you. Good luck.


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andrethemoogle
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23 Dec 2015, 12:46 pm

No, the best person qualified should be accepted, no matter their race, gender, creed, ability/disability, etc.

This goes for jobs as well and I'm honestly amused that people find that to be an offensive opinion in this day and age, when it's been like that FOREVER.



speckledtail
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23 Dec 2015, 2:14 pm

Fnord wrote:
This would discriminate against people who have no ASDs, just as current Affirmative Action programs discriminate against males and non-minority people.


Affirmative Action doesn't discriminate against males and non-minorities. The program prevents the discrimation based off of gender and race. You can't just expect people to hire equally, even when two people have the same resumes. People may not intend to discriminate when they look through the list of people applying for a job, but it happens unconsciously. Affirmative Action makes it where employees have to give a fair chance to those they may look over otherwise.

ASPickle wrote:
Everything should be merit-based. Granted, it's not that way in some cases. Adding any further qualifiers to the Affirmative Action checklist is not how we fix the problem.


If adding to a list of those who should not be discriminated against in the work force isn't going to fix the problem, do you have a solution? No, this may not be the best way to help us and others, but it's the best we have at the moment. Until the government can think of a better way to protect minorities in the work force, I think Affirmative Action is doing more good than you make it out to be doing.

andrethemoogle wrote:
This goes for jobs as well and I'm honestly amused that people find that to be an offensive opinion in this day and age, when it's been like that FOREVER.


The fact that it's been like that forever doesn't means that it's automatically the right way to do things. This has been an issue for a very long time. People have always been discriminated against, it just wasn't as public before.


Ultimately, I think that disabilities like ASD should be added to Affirmative Action, as it is the only way we have at the moment to work on the discrimination we face in the work force. Personally, I can think of better options, most of which would be near impossible to implement. Also, I agree with ASPickle about the option for no. It should be changed to a more neutral wording, or just change both option to Yes and No respectively, so you're not adding your own opinions to the poll.



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23 Dec 2015, 2:24 pm

Lifeistoohard wrote:
http://downtrend.com/vsaxena/bonus-sat-points-for-being-black

Here's what I'm talking about.

If you give a candidate preferential treatment on this basis of race, that is, by definition, racism. To assume every minority has encountered discrimination, and therefore, level the playing field, is a generalization.

There are poor white people as well. Where's the quota for them? Oh wait! Their skin gets sunburned easily, so they have to work harder than a rich black student to get into the school of their choice.

And what about the Autistic/Asperger student? Most of whom been bullied, treated less than others, and had to work 10x harder in academics to succeed....


Well minorities have been sort of systematically discriminated against...the idea is they are largely disadvantaged because of that systematic discrimination. But yeah I don't think the idea is to make it easier for someone of a minority to get into college than it is for a white person. Its supposed to make it so a person of a minority gets into college as easy as a white person, though not sure that is always the end result. Perhaps they should make it somewhat income based to...so you aren't getting wealthy people of ethnic minorities getting advantages over poor white people for instance.

I think it would certainly be a good thing for there to be help/support for people with autism/aspergers to get into college and jobs, I think people with autism can qualify as a disadvantaged group.



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23 Dec 2015, 3:27 pm

Lifeistoohard wrote:
http://downtrend.com/vsaxena/bonus-sat-points-for-being-black

Here's what I'm talking about.

If you give a candidate preferential treatment on this basis of race, that is, by definition, racism. To assume every minority has encountered discrimination, and therefore, level the playing field, is a generalization.

There are poor white people as well. Where's the quota for them? Oh wait! Their skin gets sunburned easily, so they have to work harder than a rich black student to get into the school of their choice.

And what about the Autistic/Asperger student? Most of whom been bullied, treated less than others, and had to work 10x harder in academics to succeed....


Your racism is showing. That must be embarrasing--might want to keep it to yourself if you can't manage to be less racist.



Fnord
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23 Dec 2015, 5:50 pm

wilburforce wrote:
Your racism is showing. That must be embarrassing -- might want to keep it to yourself if you can't manage to be less racist.
It is not racist to hire the best qualified person, provided that race is not an issue in hiring -- this is what Equal Employment Opportunity is all about.

It is racist to give preferential treatment in hiring due to race, regardless of how well a person qualifies for the position -- this is what Affirmative Action is all about.

And yes, non-whites can be racist.


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24 Dec 2015, 4:39 pm

Interesting Essay: Ten Myths About Affirmative Action


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Lorraine495
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30 Dec 2015, 6:16 am

I think employers who pride themselves on hiring people with disabilities should have a coordinator for special hires (the disabled) and that coordinator should be knowledgeable about the disabilities of these hires so they can require managers and supervisors to make work related modifications that will allow the employees to work comfortably and without fear of retaliation. The coordinator should educate managers and employees about the disability or at the least enforce a zero tolerance policy for discriminatory acts against the disabled. HR/EEO is not appropriate for this task because they are used to dealing with NT people andbecause their umbrella is so wide (race, sexual orientation, creed, etc) they do not develop effective measures to protect and support special hires in who are disabled. A special needs coordinator could be more approachable and have no stigma attached to their title making them a welcome site in the workplace in my opinion. :heart:



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30 Dec 2015, 6:59 am

I don't agree with affirmative action. I also don't agree with people having "quotas" for disabled people. There are real disabled people, then there are people that exaggerate any conditions they have to get disability payments.

I think if someone has a severe disability, it's a nice thing to do to try to help them work, even if it's very difficult.

People with moderate to severe autism would probably qualify in that respect.

I think otherwise, getting a job should be based on ability to do the job with reasonable accommodations. So discriminating against someone with an ASD is wrong, but they shouldn't get a job, say in computer science (I know, stereotype) over an NT with more knowledge and experience just because of their autism.



LittleBlackCat
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30 Dec 2015, 7:39 am

I'm with Fnord on this. I do want greater awareness of what autism is and isn't and protection from discrimination. I have the right, should I choose to do so, to highlight how particular traits that I have may suit me to a particular job and to avoid talking too much about my shortcomings - this is no different to what every competitor (whatever their neurology) will do. I do not want to be hired just because I can tick a box on a form that I have a disability. It would make my position very tenuous and negate any skills or experience I had that actually enabled me to do the job. I want to work towards a more equal world, not one that simply tries to counter one form of discrimination with the same thing in a different flavour.



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30 Dec 2015, 1:10 pm

Aspies could use some serious career planning training. So instead of approaching an employer from the standpoint of "I think I'd be really good at auditing because I have great attention to detail," the Aspie could say, "I know I'm good at auditing because my resume demonstrates a progression of responsible jobs in the auditing field."

Aspies need to learn to identify a skill they enjoy using, develop it, find what careers match it, and build a career, starting if necessary as a volunteer or unpaid intern. Aspies also need ongoing coaching to help with interpersonal issues that come up in the workplace, such as teasing or bullying, proper meeting behavior, and how to build a good reputation in the organization.

We don't need Affirmative Action, we need to be affirmative in planning our own actions.


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Yigeren
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30 Dec 2015, 10:00 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
Aspies could use some serious career planning training. So instead of approaching an employer from the standpoint of "I think I'd be really good at auditing because I have great attention to detail," the Aspie could say, "I know I'm good at auditing because my resume demonstrates a progression of responsible jobs in the auditing field."

Aspies need to learn to identify a skill they enjoy using, develop it, find what careers match it, and build a career, starting if necessary as a volunteer or unpaid intern. Aspies also need ongoing coaching to help with interpersonal issues that come up in the workplace, such as teasing or bullying, proper meeting behavior, and how to build a good reputation in the organization.

We don't need Affirmative Action, we need to be affirmative in planning our own actions.


I agree with this 100 percent.