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DarthMetaKnight
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26 Dec 2015, 7:53 pm

Here's something I've noticed: Putin is a religious nut who hates the West and has nukes. The Soviet Union had nukes and everyone thought that the Soviets would blow up the world.

Why isn't Putin generating the same hysteria? Is it anti-communist bias? Is it anti-atheist bias? You decide.


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naturalplastic
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26 Dec 2015, 8:25 pm

Its an invalid question for too many reasons to list.

But to sum it up: Everyone in America soils their pants at the thought that Iran will get nukes. And the Iranian regime is anything but "atheistic".



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27 Dec 2015, 4:26 am

North Korea has nukes, and the means to deliver. They could put one or more in orbit.

They might. They also might nuke South Korea and Japan.

Putin will defend Russia. Do not attack or invade Russia, he will not use nukes.

China we think has 3000 underground, spread out, connected by underground rail.

North Korea is the most likely to use nukes, Putin is the sanest of the lot.

China is building large cities where no one lives, connected by high speed rail.

We think they have massive underground systems. They have actual plans for WWIII, they say China will have several hundred million survivors, and everyone else will die.

Israel is the nut case, saying that if they ever lose, they will nuke Europe, Russia, and the Arabs. We have to let them take over the world, because their god said so. They have also threatened to nuke Iran for years.

No need for hysteria, when someone starts it the whole planet will glow. Then it will get very dark and freeze. The darkness would last for five years, the cold would start an ice age, and by the time the dust settles, the ice melts, 20,000 years will have passed.

The radiation will have died down, it will be warm again, and we can just go about our business like nothing ever happened.



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27 Dec 2015, 4:57 am

Empirically, save for some mostly-dead Americans, nobody's grandiosely dumb enough to nuke anybody. It runs contrary to homeostasis. Everyone's talking about a self-fulfilling prophecy with very little substantiating proof because it's kinda fun. Getting nuked requires enough provocation to get nuked. The day the IAEA starts selling reactors that turn warheads into fuel it's all good.


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ASPartOfMe
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27 Dec 2015, 11:14 am

Computer hack, bug. US system is old


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Fnord
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27 Dec 2015, 11:25 am

Inventor wrote:
North Korea has nukes, and the means to deliver. They could put one or more in orbit.

HAH!


They can barely get a SAM halfway across the Sea of Japan.


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27 Dec 2015, 12:37 pm

The Cold War was an incredible show of theatrics for both sides. One that both sides' leaders created and exploited for as long as they could, at as high a political gain as they could. In that sense, it was wildly successful. The Russians convinced many of their people that Americans only cared about profit, religion and selfishness. The Americans convinced many of their people that Russians were poor, hungry mindless and godless. The ruse lasted a little more than the length of a full career in politics, but eventually it fell apart. Sociopaths - oops, I mean "politicians" on both sides then scrambled for a couple of decades and still haven't really found an adequate replacement to give them what their predecessors had. I find it interesting that conservatives on both sides have "found religion" as their next method to motivate and control the masses, though I can't say I am surprised. It's a ploy that has worked for some leaders in some regions for a couple thousand years, since agriculture and keeping livestock meant settling down into population dense cities, especially in Europe.

My point is, the politicians who use the threat of nuclear weapons as part of their show of power ("I'll protect you!") would never, ever want to give that power by actually destroying the civilization - and masses of people - they control.


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28 Dec 2015, 2:25 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Computer hack, bug. US system is old


Firstly I'll point out that security through obscurity is about as good as security ever gets but honestly I'd caution you more about the dangers of defaming hackerdom. It's just uncouth. Look up 'airgap'. If I were you I'd pray for those hacks & bugs, they're the best hope we've got of realizing MCA's dream.


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28 Dec 2015, 2:34 am

Fnord wrote:
Inventor wrote:
North Korea has nukes, and the means to deliver. They could put one or more in orbit.

HAH!


They can barely get a SAM halfway across the Sea of Japan.


They're also rapidly opening up to international ideas, trade and even tourism. Who can fault that? McCarthyism & a half-century old war kept them isolated and believe it or not they're working extremely hard to turn over a new leaf, just doing it in a way westerners usually fail to recognize.

Just my opinion as a geography nerd but Pyongyang is actually quite closely mirroring the early history of Singapore these days. It may be an apocryphal place but it's also a rapidly developing one. Obviously it's not without considerable struggle that they're achieving what they do but I think we of all people should be capable of respecting that.


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28 Dec 2015, 3:30 am

Fnord wrote:
Inventor wrote:
North Korea has nukes, and the means to deliver. They could put one or more in orbit.

HAH!


They can barely get a SAM halfway across the Sea of Japan.



Launching pads are required for the more sophisticated Taepodong-1/2, as their liquid propellant is difficult to store and the missile must be fueled immediately before launch.This launching method poses a great risk, as the site itself is extremely vulnerable to airstrikes.United Nations and independent experts say that North Korea does not operate missiles beyond the intermediate range, and that the long-range missiles shown at parades are mock-ups.

There is a great website called 38North if you want to learn about the DPRK military.

http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/files/20 ... mucker.pdf
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/north-kore ... -1.1152067



Last edited by frenchmanflats on 28 Dec 2015, 5:31 am, edited 7 times in total.

cberg
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28 Dec 2015, 3:35 am

Inventor wrote:
China we think has 3000 underground, spread out, connected by underground rail.

China is building large cities where no one lives, connected by high speed rail.

We think they have massive underground systems. They have actual plans for WWIII, they say China will have several hundred million survivors, and everyone else will die.

Israel is the nut case, saying that if they ever lose, they will nuke Europe, Russia, and the Arabs. We have to let them take over the world, because their god said so. They have also threatened to nuke Iran for years.

The radiation will have died down, it will be warm again, and we can just go about our business like nothing ever happened.


(link) I was about build a geiger counter anyway.

Iran is also prepared much the same as China, though I'm pretty sure the China fervor seems overblown. Yes, their urbanization has outpaced their forecasts. No, it's not all about 'prepping'. They really do anticipate not only potential conflicts but migration as well, immigration too. Just for a minute try to imagine how long it would take a tunnel boring machine to cross mainland China. Obviously that's impossible even at their economic scale. Yes, I am aware of their blasting tunnel complexes to hide their launch submarines but that initiative is more about naval intelligence; China builds the world's fastest submarines by a country mile, they'd be insane not to make use of them. The story on the tunnels holds water IMO but I can't for the life of me believe China's indulgent enough to build anywhere near as many nukes as the U.S., stockpiles are liabilities plain & simple. Take it from a guy who's lived in the shadows of rocky flats most of his life.


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28 Dec 2015, 3:50 am

Iran and DPRK have a very good relationship. They send representatives to each others countries to compare notes.Since the 1980s North Korea has become known as a reliable supplier of arms to other countries including Iran. Weapons sales between North Korea and Iran increased significantly during the Iran-Iraq war.This weapons sale relationship has expanded into further military cooperation including in the development of and exchange of nuclear technology.In addition to weapons, North Korea and Iran have an active exchange of military expertise particularly in relation to special operations and underground facilities

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/a ... 32,00.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/donaldkirk/ ... real-deal/
http://www.irantracker.org/foreign-rela ... -relations
http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2007_01-02/IranNK
http://38north.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... 122215.pdf



Last edited by frenchmanflats on 28 Dec 2015, 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kyle Katarn
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28 Dec 2015, 4:32 am

Blowing up a nuke is an extreme action that could wipe out life on Earth as we know it. That's why nukes are only used as threats. Going any further is insanely risky.



frenchmanflats
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28 Dec 2015, 4:37 am

Kyle Katarn wrote:
Blowing up a nuke is an extreme action that could wipe out life on Earth as we know it. That's why nukes are only used as threats. Going any further is insanely risky.


Its called Mutual Assured Destruction.Mutual assured destruction was the principle behind Cold War strategy.MAD reflects the idea that one's population could best be protected by leaving it vulnerable so long as the other side faced comparable vulnerabilities. In short: Whoever shoots first, dies second with no winners on either side.



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28 Dec 2015, 6:28 am

One day I'd like to work for the IAEA. They're exceptionally good at hot potato.


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AR1500
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28 Dec 2015, 6:39 am

Edenthiel wrote:
The Cold War was an incredible show of theatrics for both sides. One that both sides' leaders created and exploited for as long as they could, at as high a political gain as they could. In that sense, it was wildly successful. The Russians convinced many of their people that Americans only cared about profit, religion and selfishness. The Americans convinced many of their people that Russians were poor, hungry mindless and godless. The ruse lasted a little more than the length of a full career in politics, but eventually it fell apart. Sociopaths - oops, I mean "politicians" on both sides then scrambled for a couple of decades and still haven't really found an adequate replacement to give them what their predecessors had. I find it interesting that conservatives on both sides have "found religion" as their next method to motivate and control the masses, though I can't say I am surprised. It's a ploy that has worked for some leaders in some regions for a couple thousand years, since agriculture and keeping livestock meant settling down into population dense cities, especially in Europe.

My point is, the politicians who use the threat of nuclear weapons as part of their show of power ("I'll protect you!") would never, ever want to give that power by actually destroying the civilization - and masses of people - they control.




But back in 1983, they nearly did!

So you were just a kid back then when the world came as close to full blown nuclear war as it ever has. Just an inch closer than the Cuban missile crisis 21 years prior to that. Reagan, at the urging of then senator Dick Cheney and general Alexander Haig, was talking in 1982 of "limited nuclear war" where a preemptive nuclear strike would militarily cripple the USSR and win the cold war militarily. Andropov had warned of this and believe that Reagan was seriously going to go through with this when the ABLE ARCHER exercise was carried out and put the Soviet Union on full nuclear alert(which meant 300 ICBMs on 24 hour standby).

MAD can fail when your enemy believes that you are about to launch a sneak attack that might prevent them from retaliating(a decapitating strike)so they attack first.