Sarah Palin endroses Donald Trump for president

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androbot01
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21 Jan 2016, 7:34 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Many libertarians are pro-life and it is consistent because all it comes down to is whether or not that unborn child is human life or not, protecting the rights of the unborn is something I think is very important to the cause of liberty. We were all were babies once, my parents weren't married when they got pregnant with me, I'm glad I wasn't decapitated with some clothes hanger how about you?

Well, since you're asking, I would have preferred that my parents had aborted me. Neither one of them was able to care for a child. And my life is a trial.



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21 Jan 2016, 7:39 pm

o, you don't have to be an evangelical Christian to be be pro-life. But they seem to be the ones who insist on imposing their beliefs on everyone else. I know women who are opposed to abortion, yet the also believe in a women's right to choose.


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Jacoby
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21 Jan 2016, 7:53 pm

I think it is cowardly the people that recognize the immorality of abortion, the literal murder of children, but still support it in practice under the auspice of 'choice.' Since when is okay to choose to murder someone? It's not just your body anymore, aborting a child is a taking life. If you believe it is a human life then what you are saying is that murder of the innocent is sometimes permissible if it furthers yourself. I respect the people who just say it's a clump of cells way more, at least 'choice' in their context makes sense. I disagree with them, I think they're misguided at best and lack a certain humanity but at least they're consistent.



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21 Jan 2016, 8:39 pm

Whether you consider it a "clump of cells" or a human life is irrelevant. As long as that life is dependent on its host, it is nobody's business except the woman carrying said life.

I don't find most people who insist abortion should be outlawed are not particularly "pro-life" at all. They only care about life before birth. Once it's out of he womb, they couldn't care less. I doubt any of them would be willing to adopt the product of a sibling tryst.


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Lukeda420
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21 Jan 2016, 8:59 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Whether you consider it a "clump of cells" or a human life is irrelevant. As long as that life is dependent on its host, it is nobody's business except the woman carrying said life.

I don't find most people who insist abortion should be outlawed are not particularly "pro-life" at all. They only care about life before birth. Once it's out of he womb, they couldn't care less. I doubt any of them would be willing to adopt the product of a sibling tryst.


Another thing, outlawing abortion doesn't get rid of abortions. We'll just go back to the days of back alley abortions when it wasn't uncommon for women to die during the procedure. It will also mean that some less than savory characters will get involved. The people like Kermit Gosnell will suddenly see an increase in demand.

And Jacoby, the coat hanger abortions are the result of a lack of access to qualified medical professionals. Making legal abortion unavailable leads people to engage in that sort of thing.



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21 Jan 2016, 9:55 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Whether you consider it a "clump of cells" or a human life is irrelevant. As long as that life is dependent on its host, it is nobody's business except the woman carrying said life.

I don't find most people who insist abortion should be outlawed are not particularly "pro-life" at all. They only care about life before birth. Once it's out of he womb, they couldn't care less. I doubt any of them would be willing to adopt the product of a sibling tryst.


If I were ever to have kids I'd probably would strongly consider adopting considering a) obviously all the unwanted needy children in the world and b)my genetics aren't special anyways. It's not even just the Autism really, my dad + 2 brothers were both epileptic with learning disabilities so I was lucky to dodge that bullet on top of it all.

A lot of lives are dependent, dependency doesn't stop at the womb and for some people it lasts their entire lives so it is very troubling to me the idea that someone thinks that holding this power over someone gives them the right to choose whether they live or die.



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21 Jan 2016, 10:47 pm

Lukeda420 wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Whether you consider it a "clump of cells" or a human life is irrelevant. As long as that life is dependent on its host, it is nobody's business except the woman carrying said life.

I don't find most people who insist abortion should be outlawed are not particularly "pro-life" at all. They only care about life before birth. Once it's out of he womb, they couldn't care less. I doubt any of them would be willing to adopt the product of a sibling tryst.


Another thing, outlawing abortion doesn't get rid of abortions. We'll just go back to the days of back alley abortions when it wasn't uncommon for women to die during the procedure. It will also mean that some less than savory characters will get involved. The people like Kermit Gosnell will suddenly see an increase in demand.

And Jacoby, the coat hanger abortions are the result of a lack of access to qualified medical professionals. Making legal abortion unavailable leads people to engage in that sort of thing.


Monsters like Kermit Gosnell should be executed, I have no reservations saying that. It is these doctors who are the real criminals not these desperate women who more often than not are being pressured by someone else to abort.

Outlawing anything doesn't get rid of it, murder is illegal the last time I check and it happens every day. All these people that supposedly died from back ally abortions is a myth, women still die from abortions today and probably in greater numbers because the much higher volume of abortions which has become an industry in of itself built on the bodies parts of these murdered children. So tell me, are all the ghettos nicer now without all those unwanted children? Are our communities better off now before 1973? They are killing millions of our brothers and sisters, they are destroying the future of our country.



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22 Jan 2016, 8:21 am

Jacoby

Kermit Gosnell is a criminal even though abortion is legal. That was my point what he did wasn't what happens in legitimate clinics. I personally don't believe in the death penalty but I do think he should spend the rest of his life in prison. And I think making abortion illegal will just lead to an increase of women going to people like him rather than actual doctors.

Anyway, since we don't agree on the basics of this subject debating it is pointless. We'll just keep talking past each other.



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22 Jan 2016, 12:55 pm

Kermit Gosnell existed in an era of legal abortion, I don't really believe that people would rush to these illegal and dangerous butchers. I think people like Kermit Gosnell should be hunted down and thrown in prison, the abortion industry has almost zero oversight and is protected from even the most basic regulation. Women still die from abortions, it's not a perfectly safe procedure so the industrial scale of which it is done now probably results in the deaths and injury of more women total than those desperate enough to go the "back ally". Roe v Wade made it a national issue, it created law where it didn't exist before. A manufactured activist decision. Before that the states and the people could decide, no where in the constitution do I see a right to abortion but I do remember them mention something about life and liberty. I watched those Planned Parenthood videos and we're dealing with evil people who do not value human life, be it the mothers or the child they killed. It is eugenics, a genocide, millions and millions of people have been killed and I don't think women or us as a society are better off. Western civilization is committing suicide, look at the birth rates and the main difference between the more "fertile" groups and those peoples below replacement level(going extinct) is their attitude toward abortion. No, you will most likely not agree but now you know how I feel. There will be a demographic collapse, foreigners won't save us if they can't/don't assimilate but if they did now that would mean embracing this culture of abortion.



Last edited by Jacoby on 22 Jan 2016, 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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22 Jan 2016, 1:02 pm

I am left leaning, but abortion and capital punishment are two things that I disagree with left wing politics tremendously. There is nothing innately wrong with capital punishment, as it is simply a punishment for a crime when it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt. It deters crime and helps make society safer. Abortion can be justified in cases where a women's life is in danger and a few other instances, but that is about it.


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22 Jan 2016, 1:51 pm

Deltaville wrote:
There is nothing innately wrong with capital punishment, as it is simply a punishment for a crime when it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt. It deters crime and helps make society safer.

Source?


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22 Jan 2016, 1:55 pm

Jacoby,

It's kind of amazing, I disagree with virtually all of that. But yeah a debate isn't going anywhere.

On the death penalty. First off I think life in prison is arguably worse than death. Another thing is our justice system is ust too infallible to trust it with that. Innocent people do get executed.

P.S. Damn captcha



Last edited by Lukeda420 on 22 Jan 2016, 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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22 Jan 2016, 2:00 pm

Deltaville wrote:
I am left leaning, but abortion and capital punishment are two things that I disagree with left wing politics tremendously. There is nothing innately wrong with capital punishment, as it is simply a punishment for a crime when it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt. It deters crime and helps make society safer. Abortion can be justified in cases where a women's life is in danger and a few other instances, but that is about it.


Have you any idea how many major miscarriages of justice there have been in the US with people on death row?

There is no evidence that the death plenty is a deterrent. It is not as if there is a conclusive correlation between homicides and the death penalty.



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22 Jan 2016, 2:03 pm

Jacoby wrote:
... and we're dealing with evil people who do not value human life, be it the mothers or the child they killed.


To me this is a question of human life versus human experience. As I mentioned earlier, if the experience is unpleasant, the life is less valuable. It's the same with euthanasia. If life becomes an unfulfilled burden, head to the great egress.
I think your belief in life at all costs is evil.



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22 Jan 2016, 2:48 pm

Most pro-lifers are f*****g hypocrites! Life is “sacred?” If they believed that they wouldn't be in favor of the death penalty. (Yeah, it makes a lot of sense to punish someone for killing by killing them). And they're usually the first to in favor of bombing the s**t out of countries that harbor terrorists! Yeah, life is “sacred,” so let's go over and there and kill thousands of innocent civilians under the guise of the war on terrorism!

These pro-life Christian evangelicals make me want to puke!


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22 Jan 2016, 3:17 pm

I think that often women are not so much concerned about the physical trials of reproduction so much as the quality of life that will be available to their offspring.