Posting a non-cynical opinion on L&D...

Page 1 of 4 [ 57 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

CryptoNerd
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Age: 1930
Gender: Male
Posts: 229
Location: The bash shell

18 Mar 2016, 9:18 am

Why does it arouse such an angry reaction from some people? In my many years of dealing with repeated failures and lost opportunities with women, as well as some life-changing experiences, I've learned to be optimistic about my situation and my ability to improve, and I've learned to be optimistic about other aspies' chances of making their romantic situations better, and what do I get for it? A backlash from the aspie community. Some people, it seems, don't want to improve their romantic success. They would rather find excuses. Like "The alpha males are monopolizing the pretty girls." or "I can't lose my virginity because I'm a virgin." None of these statements are true.

Now I can't say I know that much about dating. I'm not a very successful person myself. But I'm learning, and I take every failure as a learning experience, another step towards getting the girl of my dreams. I don't make excuses. I used to make excuses, like "Girls like assholes.", "Aspie males can't get girls.", etc., but I'm past that point now, and I'm looking forward to a more positive and overall better future. I suffer from a lot of mental conditions, including bipolar I and schizoaffective; I've burnt a lot of bridges with my bizarre and erratic behavior that results not just from AS but from all my other co-morbid conditions. It's been hard for me especially. But I'm certain that I'll make it and get what I yearn for, if I just work hard enough. And the same is true for the rest of you. Don't make excuses. You can do it.



Outrider
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,007
Location: Australia

18 Mar 2016, 10:07 am

I share your mindset and sentiments, but most people's failure in aspects of life will start to take a toll on them.

Those that are doing their best to self-improve and become the best person they can be, yet still failing, will find any and every excuse to justify their lack of success. If it's not them who has the problem, the actual game/system itself must be inherently broken.

This, to an extent, I believe is true. I have noticed in my observations, that, irregardless of your actual attractiveness level, plenty of people usually considered by society to be less attractive may still find more success. I've observed other males who find success, despite actually begin in far worse condition than I am are (rude, unattractive, unhygienic, unhealthy males who find success with attractive people, while I'm fit, hygienic, confident, friendly, but fail etc.)

Those that don't believe the system is broken, will begin to think the problem is themselves, and begin self-loathing and/or have a poor self-esteem. This would also make them less motivated to self-improve, because if men even worse off than they are, are still finding success, why bother being the best person you can be?

I liked your thread earlier, though I didn't comment on it.

I'm optimistic myself usually, but it's really taken its toll on me.

In many cases, optimism will only set one up for disappointment.

It's inherently difficult to convince others to think positively when there is mountains of evidence to suggest it leads to no difference.

A past issue of mine has been, irregardless of my attitude, something negative/bad has happened. Doesn't matter if I felt optimistic, neutral/realistic, or pessimistic/negative.

If I was feeling optimistic, I'd crash and burn. Neutral/realistic, again I'd feel extremely disappointed and miserable with my blunder, but definitely not as much as when I'm blindly optismistic. When I'm pessimistic, my failure is usually even worse than I predicted it would be.

So, if you any advice for me to feel better, I say go ahead.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 71,166
Location: Queens, NYC

18 Mar 2016, 10:19 am

I enjoy non-cynicism myself.

Cynicism makes me depressed.



nick007
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2010
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 23,481
Location: was Louisiana but now Vermont in the police state called USA

18 Mar 2016, 5:40 pm

I was pretty cynical when I was single. I was doing my best to improve myself but the issues I couldn't improve were things that made women seem to like a$$holes or made women look like gold-diggers. I was even called a misogynist on this forum for posting stuff like that when I was venting trying to analyze & sort stuff out thou in reality I'm somewhat of a feminist. I'm not very cynical now that I'm in a relationship but I do sympathize with those who are & I do feel like the odds are stacked against them because I realize that I was very lucky to get the girlfriend I had cuz we're both very unique & compatible. At the same time thou I do believe that people should keep trying despite the odds & believe people can work on themselves & do things to improve their odds. I guess I'm on the fence with this debate.


_________________
"I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem!"

~King Of The Hill


hurtloam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,365
Location: Eyjafjallajökull

19 Mar 2016, 5:01 pm

I agree with Outrider. Although I would try to never put any one down or kill their positivity, I can understand why unhappy experience after unhappy experience would crush someones confidence.

I can understand why they would try and find reasons for their lack of success even though those reasons are often just tropes that get repeated on here time and time again.

It's difficult to improve when you feel like you've already made so many changes that just aren't good enough. Then we feel like: Why keep trying? Let's have more cheesecake instead.

Sorry if this is a double post - I keep getting logged out



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,628
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

19 Mar 2016, 5:09 pm

Cheesecake > Love

Every.single.time.



TheSpectrum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2014
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,121
Location: Hampshire

19 Mar 2016, 5:40 pm

Mmmm, cheesecake.

Ah yes, the topic at hand:
CryptoNerd, I think I've identified the reason you are probably facing some backlash from those equally unsuccessful is the nature of your posts. I agree with a lot of what you say, but can't help feel you come off as a guy who feels superior to the people you're speaking to. That's something that's going to put people on the defensive. Just talk on the same level as others and you'd be fine.

I hope I didn't annoy you with my counter argument in the other thread. More than anything it was to see how you'd debate. People need reasons for their failure in order to come to terms with it and assess that they are not solely to blame for said failures. It makes it easier for the human ego to process. That is what you will see here a lot and that's my answer to your threads.


_________________
Yours sincerely, some dude.


yellowtamarin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,763
Location: Australia

19 Mar 2016, 7:32 pm

I often get backlash from my more positive posts. Being told my insight doesn't apply to others, that sort of thing. But the outspoken opinions of those who disagree with me don't really matter - if they don't believe me or agree with me, so be it. Nothing I say is ever going to apply to everyone. But there could be lurkers out there who never post but maybe see something in what I say, take something good from it, and that would be great. So I think more about that possibility than about the negative responses I get. I don't think the people posting on here are an accurate representation of everyone who is reading.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 44,007
Location: Stendec

19 Mar 2016, 7:59 pm

CryptoNerd wrote:
Why does it arouse such an angry reaction from some people? In my many years of dealing with repeated failures and lost opportunities with women, as well as some life-changing experiences, I've learned to be optimistic about my situation and my ability to improve, and I've learned to be optimistic about other aspies' chances of making their romantic situations better, and what do I get for it? A backlash from the aspie community. Some people, it seems, don't want to improve their romantic success. They would rather find excuses. Like "The alpha males are monopolizing the pretty girls." or "I can't lose my virginity because I'm a virgin." None of these statements are true...
It seems to be the nature of the people. Try talking about being successful in anything, and you'll attract a lot of others who will call you a liar, tell you that you just got "lucky", or that you've somehow cheated or gamed the system.

I could re-write write your post like this ...

In my many years of dealing with repeated failures and lost opportunities with employment, as well as some life-changing experiences, I've learned to be optimistic about my situation and my ability to improve, and I've learned to be optimistic about other aspies' chances of making their job situations better, and what do I get for it? A backlash from the aspie community. Some people, it seems, don't want to improve their career success. They would rather find excuses. Like "The alpha males are monopolizing the best jobs." or "I can't get a job because I'm not already employed." None of these statements are true...

Sometimes, people even deny what I say for no better reason than something doesn't "feel" the same way to them, and their "feelings" are all that matter, right?

:roll: Wrong!

Maybe it's just their passive-aggressive way of denying their own personal inadequacies by projecting their own failures onto everyone else and claiming in their round-about ways that you are no different from them.

Just "lucky".

:roll: Luck has nothing to do with it.


_________________
 
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature,
nor any ultimate evaluation of human nature beyond that which we project onto others,
individuals should be judged or defined only by their actions and choices,
and not by what we only imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


Outrider
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,007
Location: Australia

19 Mar 2016, 8:32 pm

Fnord: This is what I find to be a hot topic.

My thoughts on what you're saying, is that it can be assumed a reasonable amount of people have earned their success and went through hardship to get where they are now.

However, it can also be assumed that a reasonable amount of people in high positions were privileged in some way or had some sort of advantage that the majority of the population do not.

Have a gander at this if you find the time:

http://anonhq.com/a-short-comic-that-wi ... ivilege-2/

Now, it's perfectly reasonable to assume the girl can end up in the man's position - but it's unrealistic. She may not be able to afford university, especially with increasing degree prices. She has no family anymore, or friends or any kind of support network. She has only had one job, therefore she only has one job reference, and it's a minimum wage task. She lives in the United States, which is already in a recession.

As said, I'm sure she could slowly 'move her way up' in the world, but you cannot deny the male in that comic had it easier. Even if the male had to pay for college himself and juggle college with two part-time jobs, he was raised and supported throughout childhood in a privileged environment.

Look at the kids who were popular in high school. I'm sure they worked hard and made some effort themselves, but with about 20-40 friends and family supporting them every step of the way, growing up in a safe school and environment, a financially stable family, etc. they certainly had an advantage over a friendless, orphan refugee who lived in poverty in Afghanistan for most of his life, illiterate and uneducated during childhood and only just now learning the basics, and who still lives in poverty in America and experiences institutionalized racism even as a young adult and is in poor health while juggling university and two part-time jobs. If the Afghan refugee becomes a CEO too, he probably had slightly more of a struggle than an American born and raised in upper middle class.

"Cheesecake > Love

Every.single.time."

YES. Food > Love. Working out and lifting weights > Love.

I'd rather have a fast metabolism for the rest of my life, and/or stay young (age 20) forever, than find love.

Heck, a million dollars is better.

I never understood why some people are against immortality, because they have to constantly 'watch family and friends' outlive them.

You'd get use to it...

"Ah yes, the topic at hand:
CryptoNerd, I think I've identified the reason you are probably facing some backlash from those equally unsuccessful is the nature of your posts. I agree with a lot of what you say, but can't help feel you come off as a guy who feels superior to the people you're speaking to. That's something that's going to put people on the defensive. Just talk on the same level as others and you'd be fine."

Agreed.

Cryptonerd,at least in my view, seems to have the perspective of someone who has found more success than everyone else, and speaks from a very un-relatable view.

kraftiekortie is far better at being relatable, as despite the massive success he mentioned having with the opposite sex, he still speaks on a more level and equal grounds.

I, too, while slightly successful with the opposite sex, having already had two girlfriends, like to think I relate to the other males here as well. I speak from the 'Yeah, I've been there' or 'I can relate' perspective most of the time.

Your posts Cryptonerd seem to indicate to me that you haven't felt the way the other males here have or ever actually be in their position.

I'm sure this isn't true, so if this is the case, you've got to express it more in your posts if you want to be relatable and not one of those 'successful guys who has never known failure/disadvantage/what life without privilege is like, thinking he knows what it feels like enough to believe our opinions must be wrong'.

You're a guy born to rich parents trying to speak to men born from middle class or poor families (analogy).



CryptoNerd
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Age: 1930
Gender: Male
Posts: 229
Location: The bash shell

21 Mar 2016, 2:02 pm

Outrider, you do not understand where I am coming from. I am hardly more successful than anyone else on here. I have only had one relationship, which lasted for a couple of days. I am still a virgin. The main difference is I'm not bitter about it. Not to mention, I have a lot more getting in the way of my romantic success than just AS; I have bipolar manic episodes that cause me to act like a deranged lunatic and alienate potential girlfriends, and I have a weird skeletal structure that causes me to walk funny. Don't make assumptions just based on the positions I've taken on certain issues.



TheSpectrum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2014
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,121
Location: Hampshire

21 Mar 2016, 3:47 pm

You might not feel that you are bitter about yor past experiences but it still feels like you have a complex when you post, aimed at the very people in the same disposition as you. As far as I see it you're bitter, but channelling it indirectly as to better deal with it.

I don't see where Outrider denied you yourself were suffering in any particular way. He just agreed with me that you need to talk to your fellow man in a way that at least indicates you can relate to them.


_________________
Yours sincerely, some dude.


yellowtamarin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,763
Location: Australia

21 Mar 2016, 6:08 pm

"Never disregard good advice just because you don't like the source." - Someone

I'd also add to not disregard good advice just because of the way it was presented to you.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,628
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

21 Mar 2016, 6:29 pm

^ If it was presented to you while belittling you and insulting you, would you still like it? (some users do that here, ie. katy)



wilburforce
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,940

21 Mar 2016, 6:31 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ If it was presented to you while belittling you and insulting you, would you still like it? (some users do that here, ie. katy)


Can you provide examples of Cryptonerd belittling or insulting anyone? Because I don't remember seeing that in any of his posts. I didn't get the impression he thinks he's better than anyone from his posts, he seems to me to be genuinely wishing to help.


_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War

(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,628
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

21 Mar 2016, 6:38 pm

^ Not referring to Crypt., but I am criticizing yellow's last line.

Katy's posts sometimes a good advice then she ends it with an insult like "you're a genetic failure to be excluded from the gene pool" or something like that lol.