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14 May 2016, 9:20 pm

Hey. Basically, I want to know why (if anything is glaringly obvious, tell me) I am so unattractive to men.

Physically, I don't think I'm that bad. I shower every day, wash my clothes (and dress in a fairly co-ordinated way), and spend a good amount of time on my hair and make up. I have been quite overweight but, for about a year, I have been losing weight. My facial features are, as far as I can see, decent and quite symmetrical.

I am moderately intelligent and well educated in several fields. My interests are varied although atypical for people my age (i.e. I don't drink alcohol, don't go to clubs, etc.). I have been told by my friends that my conversation is interesting and not particularly awkward. In fact, most, if not all, people outside of my immediate family had no idea I was an aspie until I told them- even then, some thought that I was joking. I think of myself as being quite empathic and capable of comforting other people. I go out of my way to support my friends during difficult times. There are plenty of opportunities for me to come into contact with others, although I do sometimes feel that I could try to widen my social circle.

However, I do feel very uncomfortable engaging in 'flirting': a lot of the time I am unaware of it but, if I am, it can make me feel intensely ill at ease. The expectation to pick up on non-verbal cues causes me a lot of anxiety. Even when I do find the person attractive, I am afraid that my non-verbal reaction (which I am unaware of and, therefore, cannot control) says the opposite. These situations arise quite rarely and, every time they do, it seems that my reaction ruins it.

In your experience, is this something which has proven to be important? If so, how might I go about improving my skills in this area? Could there be something else important that I have overlooked?

Thanks in advance for your help.



nick007
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14 May 2016, 9:29 pm

Lots of us Aspies s#ck at flirting including me. Maybe instead of flirting you could try a more direct approach & make the 1st move.


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14 May 2016, 9:41 pm

I would, but I am afraid/ aware that I would be to anxious to. This is mainly due to being rejected in the past and not knowing why.



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15 May 2016, 2:45 am

This sounds very much like my life. I am not sure what it is that stops things going further with relationships, or even getting to a starting point with a relationship other than my communication issues.

I'm so so with body language. I can kinda tell if someone is flirting. I can flirt back if I actually have feelings for the person. BUT only after I've known them long enough to feel comfortable with them.

For those of us who take longer to trust or get comfortable with others it can be more difficult to date because the other person assumes we're not interested and they move on to someone else before we can actually connect with them.

I don't know how to change. Personally I've decided to see if I can find someone patient who is willing to take it slow.



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15 May 2016, 2:48 am

Oh, I was gonna add. I don't think it's about attractiveness. It's about being emotionally available and open. Sometimes aspie mannerisms project closed off body language and people think we are not interested in them.



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15 May 2016, 3:23 am

This I was exactly my problem when I was single! And I agree woth hurtloam about people thinking we are not interested.

To be honest online dating helped me because I could flirt without having to read body language and had time to thing of replies.

If that isn't an option I would suggest practice and coaching maybe. Sounds silly but my mum would coach me before dates on how to act, what actions mean what, and appropriate topics :oops: :oops:



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15 May 2016, 1:47 pm

Just a hypothesis. I think Aspies girls need to stop being so "middle of the road". First, if you try and practise to give NTs interest signals, you need to be aware that you are not really compatible with these guys, so it might not be such a good idea after all. Second, if you try to much to fit in, NDs will not notice your interest signals either because you hide them too well. The ND nonverbal interest signals are basically stims, and so if you have put down a lot of effort in eliminating them because they look funny (or whatever), then this will reduce your chances of connecting with ND guys. So being too "middle of the road" will give the symptoms girls describe here: It appears that no guys will think you are interested in them even if you are.

Also, when I do ND-type flirting with ND girls, it often appears they have seldom participated in it. Again, I think this is because I can more easily spot the interest stims than other guys even if the girl tries to hide them, which again points to many ND girls trying too hard to fit in.



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15 May 2016, 2:04 pm

rdos wrote:
Just a hypothesis. I think Aspies girls need to stop being so "middle of the road". First, if you try and practise to give NTs interest signals, you need to be aware that you are not really compatible with these guys, so it might not be such a good idea after all. Second, if you try to much to fit in, NDs will not notice your interest signals either because you hide them too well. The ND nonverbal interest signals are basically stims, and so if you have put down a lot of effort in eliminating them because they look funny (or whatever), then this will reduce your chances of connecting with ND guys. So being too "middle of the road" will give the symptoms girls describe here: It appears that no guys will think you are interested in them even if you are.

Also, when I do ND-type flirting with ND girls, it often appears they have seldom participated in it. Again, I think this is because I can more easily spot the interest stims than other guys even if the girl tries to hide them, which again points to many ND girls trying too hard to fit in.


Why are NT guys not compatible?



rdos
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15 May 2016, 2:13 pm

Alliekit wrote:
rdos wrote:
Just a hypothesis. I think Aspies girls need to stop being so "middle of the road". First, if you try and practise to give NTs interest signals, you need to be aware that you are not really compatible with these guys, so it might not be such a good idea after all. Second, if you try to much to fit in, NDs will not notice your interest signals either because you hide them too well. The ND nonverbal interest signals are basically stims, and so if you have put down a lot of effort in eliminating them because they look funny (or whatever), then this will reduce your chances of connecting with ND guys. So being too "middle of the road" will give the symptoms girls describe here: It appears that no guys will think you are interested in them even if you are.

Also, when I do ND-type flirting with ND girls, it often appears they have seldom participated in it. Again, I think this is because I can more easily spot the interest stims than other guys even if the girl tries to hide them, which again points to many ND girls trying too hard to fit in.


Why are NT guys not compatible?


Well, if you need to learn how to show interest for them, then they obviously are not compatible. OTOH, if you naturally get their attention without learning and fitting in, then they are compatible.

You might then argue that it doesn't matter so much if the courtship procedure doesn't work naturally, but it's a lot more than that. The courtship procedure not working is a pretty good indication that nonverbal communication doesn't work naturally either, so you will need to fake a lot of other things as well once you are in a relationship with an NT.



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15 May 2016, 2:27 pm

rdos wrote:
Alliekit wrote:
rdos wrote:
Just a hypothesis. I think Aspies girls need to stop being so "middle of the road". First, if you try and practise to give NTs interest signals, you need to be aware that you are not really compatible with these guys, so it might not be such a good idea after all. Second, if you try to much to fit in, NDs will not notice your interest signals either because you hide them too well. The ND nonverbal interest signals are basically stims, and so if you have put down a lot of effort in eliminating them because they look funny (or whatever), then this will reduce your chances of connecting with ND guys. So being too "middle of the road" will give the symptoms girls describe here: It appears that no guys will think you are interested in them even if you are.

Also, when I do ND-type flirting with ND girls, it often appears they have seldom participated in it. Again, I think this is because I can more easily spot the interest stims than other guys even if the girl tries to hide them, which again points to many ND girls trying too hard to fit in.


Why are NT guys not compatible?


Well, if you need to learn how to show interest for them, then they obviously are not compatible. OTOH, if you naturally get their attention without learning and fitting in, then they are compatible.

You might then argue that it doesn't matter so much if the courtship procedure doesn't work naturally, but it's a lot more than that. The courtship procedure not working is a pretty good indication that nonverbal communication doesn't work naturally either, so you will need to fake a lot of other things as well once you are in a relationship with an NT.


Hmmm I have to disagree. You don't have to fake everything with NTs.

Also you would need to learn to show interest to NDs



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15 May 2016, 2:48 pm

Alliekit wrote:
Also you would need to learn to show interest to NDs


Nope. I did that naturally already in high school, long before I had any idea about autism and neurodiversity. The only thing you need to do is to unlearn a lot of faking and start acting naturally. And girls do react naturally to this if the guy knows how to trigger it, but it will happen a lot more often if the girl acts more naturally.



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16 May 2016, 10:28 am

hurtloam wrote:
Oh, I was gonna add. I don't think it's about attractiveness. It's about being emotionally available and open. Sometimes aspie mannerisms project closed off body language and people think we are not interested in them.


My thoughts exactly. I see many less attractive, Bad Hair, Bad skin, horrible clothes everyday WITH BOYFRIENDS. I also know a lot of pretty gals (often times very closed and risk aversive) that have trouble getting a boyfriend. Looks are so overrated. Unless you are downright dogly plenty of guys will Be interested in you based on your looks.



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16 May 2016, 11:07 pm

^This.

We live in such an ironic world, where plenty of fit, healthy, attractive, friendly, confident, social, hardworking polite people are chronically single, and plenty of unattractive, rude, unhygienic, selfish, greedy people manage to seemingly enter relationship after relationship.

This is why I find it hard sometimes to even motivate myself to self-improve.

What's the point of being the best person you can be when someone with an awful personality and appearance can still win over you anyway?

I've noticed for every two attractive person with a good personality in relationships, there are 4 people that are the opposite and in relationships as well.



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17 May 2016, 1:06 am

Yeah my sister is always saying that to me when I ask her what's wrong with me? Am I just ugly? She's like no, look at all the ugly weird people in Relationships. You're not ugly.



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17 May 2016, 1:32 am

This is why plenty of 'nice guy' males feel so angry and frustrated when they are rejected and 'friendzoned' by a woman they're attracted to.

They actually think dating is about cause and effect, when it's not at all!

They actually believe 'you get out what you put in', 'you reap what you sow', etc. when this is NOT the case at all!

It seems to be determined purely by chance and nothing else...! !



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17 May 2016, 2:03 am

^^ YES, this is so true