having a crisis of faith >,<

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So just the other day, at mosque, the imam and a group of guys approached me and basically told me to stop hanging out with my best friend, because she "leads a sinful lifestyle" (she is trans and pagan). They said a bunch of nasty things about her which I don't care to repeat, and naturally, I got pretty defensive, and told them that she is my friend and how dare they talk about her like that? I told the imam that I expect an apology, and I'm not coming back to mosque until I get one. I'd rather be seen as a bad Muslim than a bad friend.

I've had struggles with faith before, but this is the first time my religion has been actively hostile to somebody I care about. Everything they said, of course, was islamically correct. And this has made me realize that, even though I identify as Muslim, I don't seem to have much in common with any of the Muslims I know, and in fact I have very few Muslim friends. The values I hold to heart are secular and western, and I could probably just abandon Islam and not much about me would change. But if I abandon my religion, I feel like I would be betraying my family. My parents would be crushed if they knew I felt this way, but the truth is I'm only doing it for them.

Well, I was raised Catholic, but I let go of my faith. So I can't really see this from a Muslim perspective.

But I would say that your Imam and the guys with him are acting like thugs and bullying you.

Your best friend, that is trans and pagan, they are your best friend.
The Imam and his goons are not your best friends. You don't need to impress them.
What are they gonna do about it if you don't care what they say? If they push it beyond
the law, file a report with the police.

Something you should realize is that religion IS NOT an inseparable part of your identity.
Religions just guilt people into thinking that because they couldn't handle people leaving...
Nobody is "born Muslim" or "born Catholic"... and the fact that we call children "Muslim children" when they
haven't decided or thought about it is also very disturbing to me.

If they can't handle you being your own person that controls yourself, that is a problem with THEM and their religion / culture, not a problem with you.

Ignore them, and the next time they bother you, tell them you're trying to convert her to Islam

Probably a bad idea, but it could be very funny until they started demanding progress reports.

What can I say, your Imam is a s**t for saying it. And he's a s**t for not keeping this conversation private, but involving others in it. If anybody wonders what patriarchy is about, this is it; a bunch of guys ganging up on a girl behind her back to mess up her life. Cowards! Sneaky little turds!

I'm no fan of Islam; I sort of find that to be a natural consequence of being a woman. That said, there are people who manage to live perfectly ok lives pretending to be religious.

The crap thing is that religion attracts the sneaky and the slimy; it's a fertile environment for people who enjoy power over others.

Maybe you can wait it out until they tire of bothering you and go after some other victim? Bullies tend to get bored at some point.

Edit: It's hard to be religious and have strong moral convictions. Eventually some religious idea will crash hard with your sense of justice and morality. This particular question is a bit easier for Christians; Jesus hung out with the lowest of the low; prostitutes and customs men - it's a tradition.

I agree with the other poster; the Imam and his cronies are not your friends; they won't support you in a time of need - they are already working to isolate you.

Religion is a dangerous issue.

If they are threatening you and can cause harm to you then you better beware. Try not to be seen with your this friend in public.

I dont know the intensity of situation. I am a Hindu, i just pray at home and not much into pseudo religious fantaticism. But i read tarot and other occult stuff and i know catholic church is against it.

Infact during rosacrucian period they had burned alive many pagan, wiccans and tarot or occult believers. so i practice my beliefs in secrecy.

It seems that religious prejudice is not limited to Christians, as I once thought. You could replace every reference to Islam in your post with a reference to Christianity, and the post would be just as valid (in my experience).

"So just the other day, at church, the pastor and a group of elders approached me and basically told me to stop hanging out with my friend, because he "leads a sinful lifestyle" (he smokes and has a tattoo). They said a bunch of nasty things about him which I don't care to repeat, and naturally, I got pretty defensive, and told them that he is my friend and how dare they talk about him like that? I told the pastor that I expect an apology, and I'm not coming back to church until I get one. I'd rather be seen as a bad Christian than a bad friend."

Religions - especially those "Of the Book" - are supposed to bring us all together, not drive us apart! Why do people use religion to drive out the "sinners" when it's the sinners who need to be saved, instead?

And why is it that the worst sinners always seem to be the ones in charge of churches, mosques, and temples in the first place?

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T minus 68 and counting.

I wonder if you can join a mosque which has a more realistic attitude towards the world around it.

Islam might mot be the problem here; it might be some of its practitioners.

LOL! Good one! You should do stand-up!

It happens everywhere, and likely in every religious institution. It's the people in charge of the religious institutions who make problems where none exist. It's the people in charge who try to use religion as justification for making their little social clubs (churches, mosques, temples, et cetera) more exclusive and homogenous.

And sometimes they do it to isolate women from the world so that those women don't get any "ideas" and start questioning their subservient role in religions of the Book. Barchan would be better off elsewhere, even just practicing Islam at home.

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T minus 66 and counting.

This is a joke, right?

Religion is an optional part of human existence. It is not compulsory.
Those that tell you otherwise are wrong.
If a doing a thing makes you unhappy, stop doing the thing.
I appreciate this is often easier said than done.

What will happen if you stick to your principles and either find a new mosque or not go back? If you want to identify as Muslim only for the sake of your family, what's the minimum that your family demands? What happens when you push those boundaries?

No.....it's not a joke!

There are moderate Muslims around. Many of them are not fanatical Wahhabi types.

Why do you think I was making a joke?

Well, you're right, and I'm prepared to call the police if things get ugly. I've already told her to tell me if anyone bothers her or seems to be stalking her. I don't think it'll come to that, though.


Well, I would never do that, and that's actually a big part of the problem. Like, in the MSA I was in a couple years back, as a rule we never proselytized to the other mainstream religious groups (Christians, etc.), but many of our members couldn't extend that courtesy to neopagan groups. I, of course, have never been interested in converting anybody, and I guess I'm seen as someone who doesn't take her faith seriously enough.


This is the only mosque within about a hundred miles :/


Nothing, probably. Except I'll have lost a sense of community that has comforted me in the past. It's hard being shunned by your peers in religion, I think Fnord can sympathize with me on that one.

But, you know what? I've decided that this isn't a crisis of faith, it's a crisis of people being dicks. They're not my friends, and I don't need them. Who knows? Maybe I'll start my own masjid.


Most of my family are deceased. My parents unfortunately are no longer with us, but I feel like I have to honor their memory. Because they could be watching, you know? I've done things that they would surely be ashamed of... but at least I can say I've never lost sight of who I am.

I feel like the difficulty of this problem somewhat depends on where you live. In some Middle Eastern countries I think Islam is harder to escape. In the United States you can be whatever religion you want and no one can stop you.

To believe in God, to have faith and to practice religion are two different things, in my opinion.

To serve as an arrow for God doesn't require anything outside of you. The rules you need are written in you.

But to live those rules into reality is hard. Rule books, clothing customs and prayer schedules are a lot easier to follow.

When I read your message, to me it felt, like what you sense in you (compassion, love, equality, understanding) is crashing with the outside world and the pressures of it (including for example social hierarchies, written and unwritten rules of religions and other belief systems).

I also agree with many of the statements Fnord and underwater made in a bit more straight-forward way than I.

Substitute "Islam" for "Christianity" and the same thing might happen in Christian congregation.

The irony being that you would be being more "Christian" than the pastor and your fellow congregants by sticking with this person as a friend.

Since I am not a Muslim, but a not particularly religious person of American Protestant background who sometimes goes to Unitarian churches I can only go by analogy to my own culture, and suggest that you look for a new congregation in the same religion ( maybe an Islamic group with a more Sufi influenced take on Islam).

Or maybe you can start some kind of dialogue about it in your own congregation.

The same Christianity that condemns sin also preaches that "we are all sinners"(so you are not really any better than the person you're condemning)-- "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"- so maybe your tradition has scripture that can be cited to promote the acceptance of marginalized individuals like your friend. Scripture that you can use as counter ammunition. Just a thought.

I have a friend who was brought up Muslim but later became Christian. She never told her parents and she never married because she wanted to marry a man that was not Muslim and she knew her parents would never approve and she did not want to dishonor her parents. So having seen her struggle of faith, I can somewhat understand yours. Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel like you are being torn in half. You want to honor your parents but you also want to "honor" your friend. Doing both seems impossible. If the situation were reversed what do you think your friend would do?