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TheSpectrum
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06 Oct 2016, 8:52 am

With Brexit very much over and it being key to Nigel Farage's initial vision for the party, where does UKIP go now?

Diane James resigned after 18 days, when having no suitable mandate and requesting people go back to her after 100.

Stephen Woolfe, who was favourite to take over (and in my mind the best choice) no doubt had a clearer, more moderate vision for the party to tackle some of the original matters and some on a more local level. He would gain ground in Labour constituencies namely in the most working class regions up north. If you are unaware, he's currently been assaulted in European Parliament by a fellow MEP, Mike Hookem and is in hospital. He was originally going to defect to the Conservative Party, which in its current state might have been more favourable a career move, however following Diane James' resignation he threw his hat back in and this angered many who were vying for new positions in the party as well as leadership itself. This is what led to the altercation alledgedly.

Suzanne Evans I'm guessing isn't running. Neither are a few others. And the others who are wanting to haven't carved out any real path in which they want to take the party.

Over 4 million voted for UKIP in the last GE, which is nearly 4x more votes than Lib Dems. While they do not hold the seats Lib Dems do, they are technically the third biggest party in the UK by popularity so it warrants discussion as to where they will go next now with the recent breaking news of Steven Woolfe.

It's only fair that as I started the topic I chime in. I think Steven Woolfe is the best hope UKIP has got in remaining relevant after Brexit, tackling local and national issues as to ones purely opposing Europe. But if this has put him off, Breitbart's Raheem Kassam would be an ideal 2nd. He has respectfully opted not to campaign for the position while Woolfe recovers but should the alternative be him I think he's a good fit, too.

Thoughts, people?


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QuillAlba
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06 Oct 2016, 9:01 am

UKIP are finished.

Just a protest vote for racists and idiots.

Everything about them is a sick joke, useful tory footsoldiers who have now outlived their purpose.

Bye Bye racist cockwombles.



TheSpectrum
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06 Oct 2016, 9:16 am

When you're quite done and used up the kleenex box....I'm guessing you meant to say "they have no future"?
A fair comment if so, just trying to keep a rational, mature discussion flowing.


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QuillAlba
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06 Oct 2016, 9:26 am

How many MPs do UKIP have?

You can't even find anyone to lead the party, you are a collection of racist oddballs.

Tramp the dirt down I say.



TheSpectrum
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06 Oct 2016, 9:40 am

QuillAlba wrote:
How many MPs do UKIP have?

You can't even find anyone to lead the party, you are a collection of racist oddballs.

Tramp the dirt down I say.

1) 1 MP, but a more popular vote. Hence why added to the OP.
2) It might be more accurate to say they haven't found anyone suitable to lead the party which is why (and I do agree it is ridiculous) Nigel Farage is standing in....for a 3rd time no less!
3) I am only one person not many, and I am not a political party, or affiliated with it. I understand politics can produce passionate discussion, but please show some restraint. The way you are handling the subject matter is not only devolving into a personal attack based on character rather than substance or fact it's down right offensive. By all means add to the thread, and share your views, but try and do it within the constraints of the rules.
4) You're promoting violence and oppression against a party you seem to associate with bigotry (thus which is why you disagree with them). Do you not seen the parallels and irony in this?


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Adamantium
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06 Oct 2016, 9:54 am

[moderting]
I just removed a post containing a personal attack from this thread.

Please remember that personal attacks are not permitted anywhere on WrongPlanet. Feel free to attack public figures and ideas in PPR, but not other individuals. Thank you.


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QuillAlba
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06 Oct 2016, 9:56 am

I'm still laughing at UKIP.



Jacoby
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06 Oct 2016, 10:00 am

I doesn't make a lot of sense for Farage to step down, what was he doing otherwise? I don't know how he's perceived over there but he comes across as very charismatic and I think would overshadow whoever replaced him. He's actually still relatively young for a politician at 52, I would of thought he was 10 years older to be honest. He's taken breaks before hasn't he?

UKIP is a pretty broadly populist party right? I imagine there is still a future after Brexit is complete.



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06 Oct 2016, 10:04 am

It's likely to go the way the future the BNP had in store for them. Woolfe may have forgotten to submit his application last time... BNP forgot to submit an application for their very existence, so interesting parallels. Tories are already as right-wing as could be, anyway, does UKIP think it can push them so far to the extreme they'd go off a cliff?

Jacoby, he's only charismatic standing by the orangutan... seriously, the latter can't form a single coherent sentence, whereas in Nigel's favour he actually researched EU laws and such, at least on a superficial level... the American constitution, on the other hand? The orangutan probably uses it as toilet paper.



TheSpectrum
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06 Oct 2016, 10:09 am

Jacoby wrote:
I doesn't make a lot of sense for Farage to step down, what was he doing otherwise? I don't know how he's perceived over there but he comes across as very charismatic and I think would overshadow whoever replaced him. He's actually still relatively young for a politician at 52, I would of thought he was 10 years older to be honest. He's taken breaks before hasn't he?

UKIP is a pretty broadly populist party right? I imagine there is still a future after Brexit is complete.

It's a populist party but most of their policy making has been built around leaving the EU since 1997, with Farage at the helm. He's very much the most charismatic leader they will get for the long run. Some of Europe (though not much of it) like him and the Americans love him. But the UK is very much a place completely like US liberal campus, so his sort of politics is very much unaccepted here by the millenials.

Steven Woolfe is a more centre leaning right-wing advocate for the party, who is respected amongst other politicians outside of UKIP and recently has had decent talks on air and television. He is also focusing on some of the stuff Farage initially spoke about and applying it on a more national level. If the party is to continue to be accepted in mainstream politics after the fiasco that is/was Brexit IMO him or Raheem are the best bet.

Mootoo I actually have to agree with you on this one - The Conservatives are as right leaning as they've ever been and I think potential future leaders of UKIP might want to prove themselves as the Conservative, more centrist, fresh alternative this time round. What happened to BNP was nothing short of poetic - they were given a podium for their views in the form of BBC Question Time and the public got to see the party for what it was. Not only did they not submit the paperwork properly they had almost 0 support.


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Jacoby
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06 Oct 2016, 10:34 am

The UK is like a US college campus? So you mean bat**** Cultural Marxists? Yikes! :P I would say then that one shouldn't assume that people's opinions are unchangeable, they've changed to what they are presently and obviously UKIP succeeded in their campaign against the EU and also I assume that these self-destructive beliefs will do themselves in. Farage has a good relationship with Trump and if Trump becomes POTUS then I think it would benefit them to keep him on as leader. With Brexit happening I would think you folks like to forge closer relations with the US, Trump has loves the UK and whereas Obama wants to put you 'at the back of the que.' I think a lot can be learned from the election going on in this country; it is possible to win even with the widespread histrionics from the political left or the entire establishment & propagandist media working you but you should already know this to be true with Brexit vote. Just my outside opinion.



Mootoo
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06 Oct 2016, 10:40 am

Well, if cultural marxism is love (as a thread I recently wrote highlighted someone else saying) then whoa, love is so self-destructive it created billions of people... really, though, the only destructive thing is closed-mindedness.

Also, Farage isn't even an MP, what do you expect him to do for the UK? Clearly, the histrionics of him and his 'BFF' are so effective neither of them have any positions whatsoever (representative/senator there)... also, sorry to burst your bubble, but a percentage of Labour voters (your dreaded left) also voted to leave...



Jacoby
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06 Oct 2016, 10:59 am

Mootoo wrote:
Well, if cultural marxism is love (as a thread I recently wrote highlighted someone else saying) then whoa, love is so self-destructive it created billions of people... really, though, the only destructive thing is closed-mindedness.

Also, Farage isn't even an MP, what do you expect him to do for the UK?


Oh, there is nothing loving about cultural marxism!

Didn't they cheat Farage out of MP seat is South Thanet? I think I remember reading something about fraud awhile ago. What's stopping him from running again? He'd be even more credible having won the Brexit vote and if Trump became president in my opinion, that is my point about keeping him on as leader. I don't think the reasoning is faulty altho it is dependent on things that haven't happened yet.

What is the opinion on US relations in the UK? Obama pretty clearly never cared for the 'special relationship' and I think it took on a new importance with the exit from the EU, I'm not sure Hillary would be much better altho I don't think she personally has as much of an axe to grind against your country as Obama has. Bill and Tony Blair were quite close if I remember correctly, he's still shuffling around altho it seems Labor has turned against him. Theresa May? I don't know her too well.



Adamantium
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06 Oct 2016, 11:17 am

[not moderating or thinking about it]

Cultural marxism is a rubbish term, though, isn't it? Meaningless twaddle at best


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Jacoby
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06 Oct 2016, 11:37 am

It's less rubbish than alt-right but doesn't stop that from being used now

It is a real movement that has been around for like a 100 years now, academic Marxists whining about people not understanding 'Marxist theory' or the label is irrelevant. They are arguing a strawman about how it's wrong because implies a conspiracy when that's not necessary at all. Quite frankly I don't think the drivel should be allowed to be taught in schools at all.



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06 Oct 2016, 12:12 pm

Cultural Marxism isn't a real movement, it's a generic bogeyman term made up by the very loony conspiracy theorist William Lind that has roots in Nazi propaganda and uses some terms previously used in niche contexts with entirely different meanings. But let's not divert the thread...

UKIP is a bit pointless now. They rallied around the horror of Brussels bureaucracy as their casus belli and won the day, now the issue is settled, there is nothing to rally around. The party was a coalition of very disparate elements and it's not surprising they came to physical blows.

I feel sorry for Woolfe, but I also laughed when I first saw this item in the news.

It isn't enough to think of UKIP as "good righties" against "bad lefties" -- British politics is more complicated than that. Many in UKIP came from the Conservatives and will logically return there. Some in UKIP come from Britain's own "basket of deplorables" -- a slightly different bunch than the people Clinton was talking about, but loathsome in the same way and quite repugnant to many others in UKIP.

There are many natural lines of fracture in the party and little to hold it together without the anti-EU cause.
.
Perhaps, when all the fisticuffs are over and the dust has settled, some remnant of UKIP will emerge with consensus around a new set of issues, but this is not at all a foregone conclusion


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