What if some Trump devotees start a civil war?

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In the news forum, beneficii posted a link to an article about how some Trump followers are promising to overthrow the government if "Crooked Hillary" "rigs" the election. So: Imagine it's December 8, and the final vote tally, including such things as vote-by-mail ballots and overseas military personnel, shows that Trump only has gotten 39% of the vote. "Crooked Hillary" has gotten 48%, with the rest split among various third parties.

Trump stands up in front of his devotees, and starts running his mouth; the fix was in all along, this government is illegitimate and I will NOT concede, it is time for True Americans to put the crooked elites in their place. Within days heavily armed Trump supporters are occupying state capitols and city halls across the country. All of America's different races and ethnicities are shooting at each other. People are forced to choose their "own people", and soon we have a race war. The military and national guard fractures.

Obama has the plug pulled on the internet, and then loads his family and that of "Crooked Hillary" on Air Force One and flees. Politicians from US Senators to town dogcatchers are hanging from streetlights and tree limbs. By mid-January, the US govt is kaput, and Trump declares victory.

Then, it gets worse. The various leaders of the various movements start attacking each other. So much for America 1789, we now have Afghanistan 1993. The "liberal cities" are destroyed as punishment for their "crimes" against "True Americans". Everybody fights everybody. Then it goes further, becoming France 1793, with people slaughtering anybody who was in the slightest way "liberal", as the world watches in horror.

By 2020 the Second American Revolution has burned itself out. Trump and his family were killed long ago. The nation is largely depopulated, what population that is left are small tribes of nomads. The rest of the world isn't doing a whole lot better. Russia has reannexed the former SSR's that broke away after the fall of the Soviet Union. China runs most of the Pacific. Israel is gone, having activated the Samson Option, and taking most of the Middle East with it. What we think of as "Western Civilization" is largely kaput, having been replaced with Chinese Civilization.

Well, the first thing I think of is the recent Turkish attempted coup, situation was reversed, with Erdogan already a Trump-like figure... but it failed even when they had tanks. It was a part of the army and yet somehow the coup doesn't succeed... in the states we got army chiefs denouncing Trump, on the other hand, and they're certainly not taking orders from some redneck even if they have a gun, as they're likely to have other weapons. So... unless they somehow get the support of a sizeable percentage of the population I doubt they, even the loud ones with no regard for reality, could actually succeed... and the country prosecuted people like Madoff in the past, so I don't see why it should be powerless against a demagogue, even if (hypothetically) rich.

Very, very doubtful. That said, I can see some of these whacked out militia types attacking government facilities. Not federal mind you, but state and local, since those are easier targets and in their hearts they are cowards.

As for a full blown insurrection, read your history, the military sides with the government unless the insurrection is done by the military itself-- no one is biting the hand that consistently feeds them even if they are a looned out Trumpy. And, make no mistake, if the federal government is attacked it WILL respond back and make all the Trumpy worst nightmares come true because it's the only play in the playbook at that point. If people aren't willing to make democracy work and would rather resort to violence they will be branded terrorists and dealt with as such. Unfortunately that would also put the entire nation under martial law.

I would also claim it won't happen because even though things are in decline here, we're still doing better economically than every other nation out there and it would make no sense to stab ourselves in the eye and turn into a third world country. That being said, this movement does have a very virulent attitude towards being domesticated and one can never tell what that type of wild ignorance will pursue.

I doubt it would happen because Martial Law will be put in place.
Add to that while many of the law enforcement and military want Trump as POTUS, they were happy to blindly follow orders prior to this unique 18 months. People need jobs more than ever and will do what they have to to put food on the table.

As a guy who's on a lot of gun forums, I can say that Trump is not particularly popular with shooting sports crowd, though many of them feel obligated to vote for him due to the fact that he's running against Hillary Clinton, so Trump isn't likely to get much extra-legal support from that corner.

Well, my experience is that the shooting range aficionado is different than the hardcore survivalist. At least in my area. The gun for sport guy has a clean weapon, in fact he's probably disassembled and cleaned it more than he's shot it, the survivalist has an arsenal, but I wouldn't fire one of his guns for my own personal safety. The sporting advocate will for the most part be right wing, although there are significant numbers that are moderate or slightly left, but the survivalist will be certain government tyranny is coming to his front lawn tomorrow (for the last 30 years). The normal gun advocate will spout the mantra "be prepared", the survivalist literally has a bunker stocked with out of date food. The gun advocate will talk a big talk, the survivalist will talk a big talk and then find an excuse to back down and run away when things get serious. The normal gun advocate might not like what he sees in society, but he's for the most part glad it's there and understands why it's beneficial, the survivalist prefers pre-civilization and thinks we'd all be better off there. One is rational, the other completely irrational and easily spooked. It's the survivalist group I'm concerned about, not the people with sanity that just happen to like guns.

Martial law will not be put in place. I also doubt that rebels can seize and hold state capitols and city halls in this situation. If we see anything, it's likely to be Oklahoma City-style bombings.

Martial law is when the highest-ranking military officer is declared head of government and takes all power away from the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government. This country doesn't have a "highest-ranking military officer" because of the principle of civilian control..

That's good to hear.

Please try to remember that my degree is in gunsmithing, which means that I spent 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 14 months of my life in extremely close proximity to the most enthusiastic of gun people of all stripes, and that I might know a thing or two about gun culture that perhaps you don't. That's not even getting into who all I know and socialize with as a gun guy who knows plenty of other gun people after spending my entire adult life in the hobby. This sounds harsher than perhaps is warranted, but I'm getting seriously annoyed at people presuming to lecture me on this topic, like people somehow think they can explain my own culture to me in a way that I'll find enlightening rather than condescending.

When did I attack gun owners? I was talking about 2 different types of people. You really need to start reading my posts before you go off the deep end. I'm getting sick of this s**t, seriously sick of it. Either read the post or keep your mouth shut. End of story.

I didn't say you attacked gun owners, I said you were lecturing me on my own culture; perhaps it's you who should try reading the posts?

Any "lecturing" you think you saw was your own imagination. I was describing my experiences and my concerns, it's pretty straight forward and clear and it's there for everyone to see, Donald.

The whole key will be the military. If they stay loyal to the government they will slaughter bands or individual armed middle age people which are the base of hardcore, and except for scattered terror incidents the insurrection will be put out quickly. If sections of the military won't fire on fellow Americans the road to possible civil war will have begun.

If Hillary loses there will also will be a very damaging crisis in that she and the Democrates will be in the courts concurrent with violent demonstrations. They will be claiming the election was "rigged" by the Russians.

I hope I am wrong but the way I see things playing out at best it will take decades for this country to decently heal from this election and its aftermath, if we can at all.

Say what you want about Nixon but for the sake of the country he did not contest an election that probably was stolen from him. Those days are long gone.

Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 16 Oct 2016, 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

The fact that Trump's supporters are advocating violent civil war if Trump loses demonstrates how they have more in common with the third world mobs, that had ruined such movements as the Arab Spring, when their candidates didn't get elected, than with the American tradition of free government. Trump's followers seem to think that if they lose an election, they just don't accept it and try to do better the next election, which was always how stable American government is supposed to work, but rather, they think they smash in the skulls of their political opponents.

I had you dead to rights last time on the "act exasperated and deny reality" technique you rely on to "debate", I suggest you learn a new trick or two before trying that again with a written medium where a transcript of what was said is kinda part of the deal. If you really want to try and argue that the post I responded to wasn't insulting or lecturing, knock yourself out, it'll be entertaining at the least..
As an aside, every time I cross posts with you, I feel like I'm in a street fight with a guy who thinks a black belt from a dojo is going to win the fight for him, and is surprised to learn that his fancy moves don't work so well outside of that very controlled environment.

I really don't want to turn this thread into yet another pissing contest over how an armed insurrection in America would play out, but I do have to point out that there would be no reason at all for anyone to try and engage the military, it would be much easier to go after the opposing politicians and their supporters, who've helpfully identified themselves through social media. My "joke" about the situation is that there are 100 million gun owners in this country, which means we'd have to kill 2 people each to wipe everyone else out, which seems pretty doable.