Ron Paul vs. Jouliani
18 May 2007, 2:14 am
Did anyone watch the republican debate. The entire debate was staged to make Ron Paul look like an idiot. All the other candidates were supporting torture and the audience cheered every time they said they liked torture. The funny thing is that after the debate Ron Paul won all the text message votes and he still is winning.
Do you like Ron Paul and do you believe 9/11 was an inside job like Ron Paul does. And do you support Alex Jones?
18 May 2007, 3:15 am
most of the american population is stupid.
it's the third law of economics: people are stupid.
and so what if rosie o donnel thinks anything? she a dumb loud-mouthed liberal moron who knows jack s**t. just like most celebrities.
ron paul appeared on alex jones' show because they're both libertarians and do share that common ground.
but to bring a smile to you....i submit these fun lyrics by a band i like....
Then against my better judgement I went walking out that door
I smiled at one person then I nodded to three more
One man asked me for a dollar, I asked him, "What's it for?"
He said, "I have seen them" I said, "OK, it's yours"
And as featured on the MTV
The local highschool lets out and the town becomes anarchy
Parties are crashed, skid marks are measured
The story's in the paper, you may read it at your leisure
Get out! Eject! Escape from the prison planet!
Get out! Eject! Escape from the prison planet!
And to the tune of a billion dollars I supplied to the D.O.E.
Some tasty little nuggets of alien technology
And as one might expect I've been harassed for years
The 'Men in Black' have been bending my ear
As a matter of fact they were just here today but I escaped them through a secret passageway
Once I lived there for one thousand days
Get out! Eject! Escape from the prison planet!
Get out! Eject! Escape from the prison planet!
I have plans for the future, guess they're futuristic plans
Move out West and buy some desert lands
Or maybe up North, just past Alaska
You know nothing of this if they ask you
Red rover, red rover, Bob Lazar's coming over
So honey, clear the airstrip and light up that stove
By Jove, I think it's started, oh yeah
Escape from the prison planet
Billion people harvest on Mars
Rebuild the remnants of the obelisk one mile from the pyramid
Escape from the planet of the apes
Go forth ad infinitum
Return the relics to the Elephant and Atlantis rises
Get out! Eject! Escape from the prison planet!
Ejector seat ignite, oh yeah
Billion people harvest on Mars
Rebuild the remnants of the obelisk one mile from the pyramid
Escape from the planet of the apes
Go forth ad infinitum
Return the relics to the Elephant and Atlantis rises
18 May 2007, 3:45 am
i have lyrics to counter your lyrics, this is by paris rapper
[CHORUS X2]
What would you do if you
Knew all of the things we knew
Would you stand up for truth
Or would you turn away too
And then what if you saw
All of the things that's wrong
Would you stand tall and strong
Or would you turn and walk away
I see a message from the government, like every day
I watch it, and listen, and call 'em all suckas'
They warnin' me about Osama or whatever
Picture me buyin' this scam I said "never"
You in tune to a Hard Truth soldier spittin'
I stay committed gives a f**k to die or lose commission
It's all a part of fightin' devil state mind control
And all about the battle for your body, mind and soul
And now I'm hopin' you don't close ya mind - so they shape ya
Don't forget they made us slaves, gave us AIDS and raped us
Another Bush season mean another war for profit
All in secret so the public never think to stop it
The Illuminati triple six all connected
Stolen votes they control the race and take elections
It's the Skull and Bones Freemason kill committee
See the Dragon gettin' shittier in every city
[CHORUS]
Now ask yourself who's the people with the most to gain (Bush)
'fore 911 motherfuckas couldn't stand his name (Bush)
Now even niggas wavin' flags like they lost they mind
Everybody got opinions but don't know the time
'Cause Amerikkka's been took - it's plain to see
The oldest trick in the book is make an enemy
A phony evil so the government can do its dirt
And take away ya freedom lock and load, beat and search
Ain't nothin' changed but more colored people locked in prison
These pigs still beat us, but it seem we forgettin'
But I remember 'fore September how these devils do it
f**k Giuliani ask Diallo how he doin'
We in the streets holla 'jail to the thief' follow
f**k wavin' flags bring these dragons to they knees
Oil blood money makes these killers ride cold
Suspicious suicides people dyin' never told
It's all a part of playin' God so ya think we need 'em
While 'Bin Ashcroft' take away ya rights to freedom
Bear witness to the sickness of these dictators
Hope you understand the time brother cause it's major
[CHORUS]
So now you askin why my records always come the same
Keep it real, ain't no fillers, motherfucka blingin'
Mine eyes seen the gory of the coming of the beast
So every story every word I'm sayin' 'f**k Peace'
See you could witness the Illuminati body count
Don't be surprised these is devils that I'm talkin' bout
You think a couple thousand lives mean s**t to killers?
n***a I swear to God we the ones - ain't no villans [sic]
Or any other word they think to demonize a country
Ain't no terror threat unless approval ratings slumpin'
So I'ma say it for the record we the ones that planned it
Ain't no other country took a part or had they hand in
It's all a way to keep ya scared so you think you need'em
Praisin' Bush while that killer take away ya freedom
How many of us got discovered but ignore the symptoms?
Niggaz talkin' loud but ain't nobody sayin' s**t'
And with the 4th Amendment gone eyes are on the 1st
That's why I'm spittin' cyanide each and every verse
I see the Carlyle group and Harris Bank Accounts
I see 'em plead the 5th each and every session now
And while Reichstag burns I see the public buy it
I see the profilin see the media's compliance
War is good for business see the vicious make a savior
Hope you understand the time brother cause its major
Ron Paul Debate Highlights!
18 May 2007, 6:30 pm
why? israel wasn't in existence until 1948? well not as what it was...it was an occupied area ruled by the UK...but not much more...i think it was part of greater syria, actually.
i wish people would take...not an anti-israel stance but quit supporting them over every other voice in the middle east. they're not the 51st state (nor is iraq the 52nd) and they should be treated fairly and without favor.
sinsboldly
Veteran
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,488
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon
18 May 2007, 11:42 pm
In a shot heard 'round the Internet, Ron Paul decisively showed the Republican field up for their not actually reading the 9/11 Commission Report, or apparently any history at all of why Islamic fundamentalists attack Western interests. It's not because "they hate our freedom" it is largely due to decades of interventionist foreign policy that supported even the likes
of Osama bin Laden himself until the US turned on him. It's a good bet that any progressive worth their weight in salt and who has Internet access has seen the photo of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam back when the US wanted to make sure he prevailed against Iran and yet they would ignore the plain truth in a bid to get elected.
That's not patriotism, that's selling out American security for cynical political gain.
Republicans are muchly afeared of the soft-spoken Ron Paul who has facts on his side and is not easily bought by religious right wingers and other special interests who like their GOP candidates predictable and on the same page of "God, Guns and Gays." And when faced with factual well-reasoned discourse about the root causes of terrorism, from a man of principle who
voted against the Iraq war from the beginning, it positively makes them tremble behind their handlers.
Which is odd given that Paul is "pro-life" and pro-gun and as a Libertarian he is not enamored with the idea of giving special rights to minorities.
During the most recent GOP debate held in South Carolina Ron Paul was talking about when Republicans used to be very concerned with following the US Constitution, they were following sound principles set forth by the Founders and non-intervention and an aversion to war were important GOP principles. When pressed on whether the attacks on September 11th should have changed Republican principles to become more interventionist (and war-like) Ron Paul said:
No. Non-intervention was a major contributing factor. Have you ever read the reasons they attacked us? They attack us because we've been over there; we've been bombing Iraq for 10 years. We've been in the Middle East -- I think Reagan was right.
We don't understand the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics. So right now we're building an embassy in Iraq that's bigger than the Vatican. We're building 14 permanent bases. What would we say here if China was doing this in our country or in the Gulf of Mexico? We would be objecting. We need to look at what we do from the perspective of what would happen if
somebody else did it to us. (Applause.)"
And then the Fox News debate moderator misunderstood the clear answer given by Paul and asked, "Are you suggesting we invited the 9/11 attack, sir?"
"I'm suggesting that we listen to the people who attacked us and the reason they did it, and they are delighted that we're over there because Osama bin Laden has said, "I am glad you're over on our sand because we can target you so much easier."
"They have already now since that time -- (bell rings) -- have killed 3,400 of our men, and I don't think it was necessary."
Now Rudy Giuliani is practically frothing at the mouth ready to explode and show the country that he has not learned a single thing about the root causes of the attacks and that apparently the 9/11 Commission Report was not on his reading list by jumping in and saying:
"Wendell, may I comment on that? That's really an extraordinary statement. That's an extraordinary statement, as someone who lived through the attack of September 11, that we invited the attack because we were attacking Iraq. I don't think I've heard that before, and I've heard some pretty absurd explanations for September 11th. (Applause, cheers.)"
Either Giuliani is lying outright here or he failed to read page fifty-one of the 9/11 Commission Report that put forward just such an explanation:
"Many Americans have wondered, "Why do 'they' hate us?" Some also ask, "What can we do to stop these attacks?" Bin Ladin and al Qaeda have given answers to both these questions. To the first, they say that America had attacked Islam; America is responsible for all conflicts involving Muslims. Thus Americans are blamed when Israelis fight with Palestinians, when Russians fight with Chechens, when Indians fight with Kashmiri Muslims, and when the Philippine government fights ethnic Muslims in its southern islands. America is also held responsible for the governments of Muslim countries, derided by al Qaeda as "your agents." Bin Ladin has stated flatly, "Our fight against these governments is not separate from our fight against you."
These charges found a ready audience among millions of Arabs and Muslims angry at the United States because of issues ranging from Iraq to Palestine to America's support for their countries' repressive rulers.
Bin Ladin's grievance with the United States may have started in reaction to specific U.S. policies but it quickly became far deeper. To the second question, what America could do, al Qaeda's answer was that America should abandon the Middle East, convert to Islam, and end the immorality and godlessness of its society and culture: "It is saddening to tell you that you
are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind."
"If the United States did not comply, it would be at war with the Islamic nation, a nation that al Qaeda's leaders said "desires death more than you desire life."
Either Giuliani owes Ron Paul an apology for taking a cheap political shot at an applause line or he owes the American people an explanation for not reading the 9/11 Report. And right-wing bloggers who were reveling in the idea that Giuliani had scored somehow by making light of Paul's factual and reasoned response are just deluding themselves and their readers.
Although a couple of staunch conservatives did see through the ruse.
Andrew Sullivan said it first after the debate:
"Paul, in contrast, had the balls to state the classic Republican position, and to defend it in the wake of 9/11. Man, that guy has some brass cojones. He even invoked Ronald Reagan in urging withdrawal from the irrationality of Arab politics ... Giuliani, interestingly, openly lied about Ron Paul's position on 9/11. Paul specifically did not make a statement, as Giuliani immediately claimed, that the U.S. invited 9/11."
And then today Patrick Buchanan who no one can accuse of being a "hippie" made a thorough and thought provoking statement that rang true instead of the usual right-wing sound bite pap put forth by those more shrill and less reasoned. In Town Hall he wrote:
"When Ron Paul said the 9-11 killers were "over here because we are over there," he was not excusing the mass murderers of 3,000 Americans. He was explaining the roots of hatred out of which the suicide-killers came.
Lest we forget, Osama bin Laden was among the mujahideen whom we, in the Reagan decade, were aiding when they were fighting to expel the Red Army from Afghanistan. We sent them Stinger missiles, Spanish mortars, sniper rifles. And they helped drive the Russians out.
What Ron Paul was addressing was the question of what turned the allies we aided into haters of the United States. Was it the fact that they discovered we have freedom of speech or separation of church and state? Do they hate us because of who we are?
Or do they hate us because of what we do?
Osama bin Laden in his declaration of war in the 1990s said it was U.S. troops on the sacred soil of Saudi Arabia, U.S. bombing and sanctions of a crushed Iraqi people, and U.S. support of Israel's persecution of the Palestinians that were the reasons he and his mujahideen were declaring war on us.
Elsewhere, he has mentioned Sykes-Picot, the secret British-French deal that double-crossed the Arabs who had fought for their freedom alongside Lawrence of Arabia and were rewarded with a quarter century of British-French imperial domination and humiliation.
Almost all agree that, horrible as 9-11 was, it was not anarchic terror. It was political terror, done with a political motive and a political objective."
The entire article is a must read for those who want a good overview of the true meaning of the Ron Paul - Rudy Giuliani debate moment. And he brings up another good point about crass Republican fear that the public will find out how they misled the country into war. Buchanan mentions that there is a movement afoot to keep Paul from future debates as they don't want to face "intolerable truths."
That would be Michigan Republican party chairman Saul Anuzis, who said he will circulate a petition among Republican National Committee members to ban Paul from other debates. It's pure stark fear on the part of the Grand Old Party to stoop so low.
The Paul campaign put out some numbers on how the debate actually scored over at Fox News (Paul beat Giuliani by 6 points) and they had this to say about the debate:
When Congressman Ron Paul, who has long served on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, explained how 50 years of American interventionism in the Middle East has helped compromise our national security, Giuliani interrupted saying he had "never heard anything so absurd." This statement is particularly troubling coming from the former mayor who tries to cast himself as
a security expert, since Dr. Paul's point comes directly from the bi-partisan 9-11 Commission Report.
"Rudy Giuliani has tip-toed around the issues of abortion, guns and marriage. The only issue he has left is security, and he doesn't even get that right," said campaign chairman Kent Snyder. "It is clear from his interruption that former Mayor Giuliani has not read the 9-11 Commission Report and has no clue on how to keep America safe."
Even Democrats should also do themselves a favor and follow this up themselves. Why hasn't Rudy Giuliani read the 9/11 Commission Report?
###
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State Motto of Oregon
sinsboldly
Veteran
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,488
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon
19 May 2007, 8:08 pm
absolutely, Skafather84, American Politics is what I am currently fixated and obsessed, as only an old Aspie can. I check in with Josh Marshall's site frequently and listen to KGO radio out of San Francisco weeknights to Bernie Ward.
I would read Giuliani's BS just as I read all the other BS, but that is what being a muckraker is!
Merle
_________________________________
Once I had a love and it was a gas
Soon turned out had a heart of glass
Seemed like the real thing, only to find
Mucho mistrust, love's gone behind
19 May 2007, 8:28 pm
of Osama bin Laden himself until the US turned on him.
I'm sorry. Osama bin Laden does hate the United States partially because of it's freedoms. al-Qaida and many other radical Muslim organizations are heavily inspired by the writings of Sayyid Qutb. Qutb visited a rather conservative area of Colorado in 1949. He wrote of the experiences:
Qutb wrote about Greeley in his book, The America I Have Seen. He offered a distorted chronology of American history: "He informed his Arab readers that it began with bloody wars against the Indians, which he claimed were still underway in 1949," Siegel says. "He wrote that before independence, American colonists pushed Latinos south toward Central America -- even though the American colonists themselves had not yet pushed west of the Mississippi... Then came the Revolution, which he called 'a destructive war led by George Washington.'"
When it came to culture, Qutb denounced the primitive jazz music and loud clothing, the obsession with body image and perfection, and the bald sexuality. The American female was naturally a temptress, acting her part in a sexual system Qutb described as "biological":
"The American girl is well acquainted with her body's seductive capacity. She knows it lies in the face, and in expressive eyes, and thirsty lips. She knows seductiveness lies in the round breasts, the full buttocks, and in the shapely thighs, sleek legs -- and she shows all this and does not hide it."
Even an innocent dance in a church basement is proof of animalistic American sexuality:
"They danced to the tunes of the gramophone, and the dance floor was replete with tapping feet, enticing legs, arms wrapped around waists, lips pressed to lips, and chests pressed to chests. The atmosphere was full of desire..."
To Qutb, women were vixens, and men were sports-obsessed brutes: "This primitiveness can be seen in the spectacle of the fans as they follow a game of football... or watch boxing matches or bloody, monstrous wrestling matches... This spectacle leaves no room for doubt as to the primitiveness of the feelings of those who are enamored with muscular strength and desire it."
(source)
Qutb was disturbed by the modernity of the West, and disturbed that this modernity was spreading into the Middle Eastern societies. This influences bin Laden to this day. He denounces American culture:
Also, and related:
Bin laden objects to the very existence of Israel (indeed, that is in part I in which he uses our support for Israel as one "justification" for his attack; part 2 is devoted to what he wants from us: ie: becoming an Islamic country, ect), and uses the word "Jew" repeatedly to make that objection. He warns that the United States allows Jews to influence their affairs.
In his 2002 letter to America he encourages his follower with among other things, the following:
Bin Laden's letter to the American People (2002)
Bin Laden's Declaration of War (1996)
19 May 2007, 8:51 pm
on a similar note of qutb, you neglected to mention hajj mohammad amin al-husayni who also played a key role in such influence.
but in the end, their reactions go back to a monroe doctrine style reaction to brittish and US influence on the middle east.
ie....the decadence is just more gas to throw on the fire...the match and the initial timber is brittish, french and american intervention in the middle east.
you're taking a multifaceted argument and are breaking it down into one simplistic statment of "they hate our freedoms" when it is much more than that and much more complicated than that. not to mention the followers don't necessarily follow the leaders for the same reason. take for example world war II: himmler had a mythology of the aryan supreme race. amin al-husseini had a belief of a pan-islamist middle east...a united sryia much in the way of the ottoman empire but as a theocracy instead of the later freedoms that the ottoman empire was starting to enjoy....but they both worked under hitler and had the same goal of the extermination of jews and romani. similarly, to say that all terrorists attack us simply for the decadence and freedoms is to assume that all those working against us are working towards that one goal for the same reason.
making such assumptions is arrogant, pompous...and really, gives them more justification to try and kill us.
"we're perfect, the only reason why they could possibly hate us is because we're so free and live happy lives...they're just haters!"
bull-fucking-shit.
